I have put parts together to use the 1228746 Have tried ANTS, ANLU, and to others using Moates 61v3 and 61v2 with the same results. The car is a 1967 elcamino with 327 tbi ignition is stock distributor with petronics electronics. Fuel pressure is 14 psi, injector out of 350, all sensors hooked up correctly except knock sensor and oem distributor with est system. Getting data with scan tool, wideband working also, can burn chips.

1. Can't emulate with Aup1 USB, computer sees the Aup1 device but no data on scan tool goes green at bottom left, apu1 I opened and switched to 24, red ribbon towards 1 inside ecm outer switch flipped in, inter switch in middle and have tried 10 switch. The unit works on my tpi.

2. Engine starts and runs as long as I am pumping the gas, WB shows 11.0 to 13.6. If I hold the throttle steady the WB goes to 19.9 and it dies. I've tried minor and major changes with no help. I do notice changes with the 3 AE 's pump shot wall wetter and the cold one. I've tried 4 different chips all with VATS turned off, 2 different 1228746 computers. It won't idle. I've opened the throttle stop, changeed both VE tables, upped the fuel pressure to 20 Psi.

Again, if I'm moving the throttle I can keep it running. Am I supposed to turn off something if I don't have the OEM distributor and knock sensor?

 

ANLU is for 350
ANLS is for 305

Sorry - can not comment on the AUP1 USB. Never played with one.

In BIN change BPC constant (assuming ANLU is your base file, FP = 14 PSI, 62 lb-hr injectors ) from 135 to 121. From the looks of it sounds like one of the two injectors is not delivering fuel. Point a timing light at the fuel stream and see if you get a similar fuel spray from both of them. A pair of 350 injectors are more than adequate to keep 327 happy at 14 PSI. This also begs the question if you have a cam with excessive overlap or an exhaust leak. If ECM transitions into CL it will trim fuel if NBO sense extra oxygen present in the exhaust stream. You can prevent ECM from going into close loop by increasing coolant threshold to maximum. Again data logging is the key to figuring this out.

//RF

 

RF Master
Thank you for answering this, I don't have data logging yet.

Using ANLU, changed BPC to 121, scan tool data says at start up : CTS 022 celsius, MAT 023 celsius, VSS 0, BL 128, Int. 128, VATS off, Bat. voltage 12.9 and moving up, TPS 0.45 to 1.45 when I move the throttle a little, will go .45 to 4.92volts at full throttle and no dead spots using my Digital Storage Ocilliscope , O2 starting to move. Rpm working correct 500 to 1800 what ever my foot is doing, no back firing, MAP varies 12kph to about 45 kph, wideband warmed up and reading 11.0 a/f when first hit throttle then moves to about 13.0 a/f. Can run long enough to go into Close loop, because I'm pump the gas the int. moves a little, BLM stays at 128, when I hold the throttle steady even at 2000 rpm it goes to 19.9 a/f and dies. If I remove the prom it will stay running at about 1400 rpm and is hard to drive but doesn't die, Limp-in mode.

As long as I move the throttle it stays running. When I stop moving the throttle it stops spraying the injectors and a/f goes to 19.9. Timing light on the injectors shows both working and slightly out of sink. when the throttle stops moving they both shut off. The whole time the fuel pressure stays dead on 14 psi. changed injectors with a different set same. Injector pattern using a DSO looks good, completely turns off when foot held steady.

Tried blocking off fuel return and pressure goes to 21 psi, no help, pulled injectors screens clean, no dripping, fuel filter good, fuel tests in spec. Engine 327 bone stock, no intake leak, no exhaust leaks, passes smoke tests on both systems, before I did conversion, engine ran smooth with carburetor at idle 17 to 18 inches of vacuum 500 rpm idle, I added pertronics to distributor ( made it electronic) and set curve and timing to oem spec. about 4 degrees. That distributor is still in car. Only sensor not hooked up is Knock sensor, and OEM distributor.

Does the 61v3 not work correctly without the correct input from the OEM dist. with spark control?

Is there anything in the program 61v3.xdf or 61v2.xdf that would do this? There is soo many choices in the Scalars, Flags, and Tables. I've turned up the VE Main Fuel Table #1 low area way up and it runs 9.0 to 11.0 a/f as long as I'm moving the throttle, and again goes to 19.9 a/f and dies when I hold it steady. I have read every thing I find on tuning TBI. My 350ci 10.5 compression supercharged TPI works great with the chip I made after about 250 tried. I've done over 75 with this little TBI piece of @#$t.

Have tried two good working 1228746 ecm's and 4 different correct vin E prom #, same thing with all. What am I missing, these TBI parts came out of a running vehicle, I've triple checked the ecm pin outs, Help Help Please

I have my own Auto Repair Shop, am a Double Master ASE, and Part time Instructor with 43 years experience.
Thank You for any help, This Is my first TBI tuning.
Dave

 

Just a thought I could be wrong on this, but doesn't the ECM need a Distributor Reference Pulse(DRP) from the ignition module to know when to fire the injectors?

 

Where is that in the program 61v3 and can it be toggled on/off?

 

I know its missing 2 inputs one is distributor and the other is knock from the est module. Does anyone know what happens if there are missing, will that effect the injectors?

 

Yep it does need a DRP to fire the injectors read https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/dfi-...firing-vs.html. As for the knock sensor it'll run without it but you'll need to raise the minimum temperture for knock retard to the maximum to keep the ECM from thinking the engine is experiencing knock and pulling out timing. It's a scalar titled "Knock - engine temp threshold". I'm thinking what is happening is every time you pump the throttle it'll give a shot of AE(just like a carb's accelerator pump) and that will keep the engine running but without the DRP the ECM doesn't know to fire the injectors to keep the engine running.

Never mind about pulling out timing it's late and my brain farted with the Pertronix distributor it's not going to pull out timing but it never hurts to disable unused features to keep gremlins from popping up

 

Dave

Thank you for listing your observations - it makes it a lot easier to troubleshoot. Based on your descriptions it is safe to rule out wild, bottom of the page camshaft! 17 to 19 in-Hg at 500 RPM idle is basically stock idle for LO3/LO5

General comment about XDF 61v3 vs. 61v2.xdf. The xdf file is a set of translation instructions which allows TunerPro to translate binary data parameters stored in the BIN file into a human understandable values and present them in a comprehensive format so as to allow easy manipulation. I have not looked and compared 61v3 and 61v2.xdf side by side, however I would venture the say that they are more or less the same with additional comments added in the later version (v3) to facilitate comprehension. The xdf file has nothing to do with DRP pulses coming from distributor.

In OE implementation the ECM receives DRP pulses from ICM and based on their presence fires injectors. Make sure that BIN files has number of cylinders set to 8-cylinder, as each injector will fire twice per engine revolution in alternating fashion up to about 4400 RPM. So that if engine is turning 1200 RPM there should be 2400 injector pulses per min or 40 Hz pulse train (25 mSec between injector firings). Based on my 350CID data logs, with low engine load the injector pulse width will be in the range between 1.2 to 2.0 mSec. If however, the pertronix module does not provide adequate DRP pulse levels to the ECM that may result in ECM not firing injectors often enough - causing this strange lean-out. Just a thought. Since you have O-scope you can easily verify that you get double injector firings for at a given engine RPM.

When you move throttle ECM adds additional fuel - per TPS AE is added on top of VE tables. However at steady state main VE tables are used (along with other compensation parameters).

//RF

 

are you saying you don't have a tach input distributor pulse input hi to the ecm ?

you can change the code in $61 do disable 43 malf but not sure why you just don't install a knock sensor

 

Without timing control, a knock sensor would be pointless.

You need and input on the purple/white wire (off the top of my head, will need to verify), so that the ECM knows not only that the engine is turning over, but also at what speed. Ot sounds like you're running strictly off AE which is pretty amazing.

The best course of action is to install an EFI xontrolled dizzy, this will allow you to have the proper inputs to the ECM and add timing control.

 

Thank you, I'll post back after I make some changes and again thanks.

 

I have seen Jeep guys run a modified dizzy with GM 7/8 pin ICM driving DRP input to the ECM. It is a non SA conversion since dizzy retains mechanical and vacuum advance. You have to disable Code 42 (EST) and KS code to make it work.

As a sanity check I would find a standard CCC or a small hat OE HEI dizzy+coil and get the four wire interface working between dizzy and ECM.

//RF

 

Finally found the problem. After installing the OEM distributor, EST module and knock system the car still would only run by pumping the throttle. I the rechecked all the wiring from the ECM to all components and one wire read wrong. I cut open the harness and found the capacitor system that is used to lower down the output of a MSD distributor buried in the harness. After removing the device the vehicle will start and run. weeee now to programming everything.

Using the 61v2 tuner program, what information or number do input into the program to enable Close loop as soon as feasible?

I have "no" EGR, no AIR, no Cat, no VSS, no ODtrans, no trans selector (PND2L), no P/S switch. How do I turn them off?

I do have 327ci bone stock, TBI, fuel pressure at 14 lbs, injectors for stock 350, 2 speed power glide with no computer signals, A/C no input yet, P/S no input, no vehicle speed signal.

Again, what do I turn off and how? to get close loop fast?

I can go to open loop fairly easy.

I also have a wideband system installed, and am wiring in to do data logging soon.

 

close loop is based off of Minimum Coolant Temp. For Closed Loop and o2 temp to become active. egr vs tps or vss speed too disable egr function. You should sill use a vss to help with iac control. If you are not using a adder and need the idle speed up look at the target idle a/c off.

 

tunedperformanc

I don't know how to disable these items yet, EGR vs TPS, EGR vs VSS ( what to put in and where )

Very soon a vss, I've wired in a 3 wire O2 sensor, it's now heated. Can I set everything to 30 seconds??? or what, It heats up in about 20 seconds like my wide band does ( for Tuning )

Dave (Avantihall)

 

Avantihall

To disable EGR
In Tuner Pro-> Scalars-> EGR - On (Temp). Set to maximum (255 counts) which equivalent to 155C or there about. Since coolant temperature never gets that high (one would hope not) the EGR will never gets activated. Also, in the Flags->Code 32 EGR failure - un-check set. Leave EGR vs TPS, EGR vs VSS alone - no need to change these parameters.

I have played with fast transition into a closed loop operation - it works, especially if you also have IAT. I set mine to 60 seconds, and it seems to work OK in my setup. But watch out for cold winter mornings - the AE may not be 100% right. You'll see it on WBO. But take one step at a time....

//RF

 

thanks. Now; laptop, scan tool. wide band, chip burner, 110 power supply, gas, coffee,----- oh ****, illegal to text in California,I wander if this counts ( oh yes ). You know it would be easier if my wife would just follow me in the motorhome, at least the coffee would be fresh!

 

What areas do I change so it will go into close loop. Is the lack of a vss. And no p/n drive input effecting things? I would like it to go in close loop in 60 seconds.

 

P/N switch provides idle compensation effects. However, in your case just leave it open.

There are two time related Closed loop qualifiers (in Scalars):
CldLp - Warm engine delay timer
CldLp - Cold engine delay timer

In stock bin both scalars are set to 400 Seconds, and you can reduce then to 60 sec if you like. Unless CldLp - Closed loop coolant threshold is achieved within 60 sec the ECM will stay in open loop. Just give engine a chance to warm coolant up before forcing into CL.

//RF

 

I don't know what year vehicle your 327 is in, but assume it would be of the 60s vintage. I converted a 1964 Impala to TBI and was able to use the stock Park/Neutral switch (column shift) in conjunction with a relay to feed the ECM with correct inputs when it was in P/N or D. I could draw one out if you were interested.

BTW, glad you put the TBI dist in and let the ECM control timing.

 

If he were real smart about it, the OEM location for the small block knock sensor is in the block drain. The 302/327/350 and 383 configurations all work with the OEM knock sensor due to the fact the bore is still 4" in all.