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I think I would swap out for TBI or carb type cables instead of adapters and to get rid of the extra length. Eventually it will get in the way or end up kinking and cause you a headache.
Well I ordered both cables last night. While it's an ACDelco TV cable that I ordered, I think I'll wait for it to come in before I grind my bracket down any. I've got two weeks off and hopefully will get to start it before the end of the year! Now to get off this computer and into the garage. ECU mounting and harness routing while I wait for more parts to show up.
Having read that you guys mounted the ECU in the dash, I decided to do the same. The harness was almost not long enough. Both CAN connectors would have been in the fender so I opened the harness and moved the CAN connectors a little closer to the ECU, but I couldn't move it as much as I wanted because the white wires were in a splice that limited how far I could move the connectors. I used the original ECM bracket, drilled 4 holes, cut the ears off of one side (where the ECM bolts/nuts used to attach)and it fits perfectly. I reused the passthrough instead of drilling a different hole in my car. The passthrough halves were a pain to take apart, but I got them cleaned out, took a little extra material off the black half of the passthrough and filled it with silicone sealer after it was back together. Here's some photos of what I got done today.
The ears are cut off the old ECM bracket to allow room for the new ECU connectors.
While it's close, be sure to leave enough room near the bottom of the bracket. These bolts stick out a little bit and where almost in the way of where the bracket bolts into place under the dash.
That's looking pretty good, I ran into the wire being to short when it came to the handheld controller. I bought the new 3.5" touch screen and the power cord was shorter than the original so I had to splice the 2 cords together and that took care of that problem so at least it is now nearly 7ft long. I really like the new screen, much more user friendly. It's been coming up on 2 years now and I really like this system, the more I drive it the better it gets. I still haven't got very good with the laptop being hooked up and the last time I did it, it was really bad since I didn't know what I was doing. I would like to take the car for a dyno tune to really dial it in by someone that understands EFI tuning. Good job and good luck with the rest of your install.
cc 82Z-28 Are you still running a 700-r4 trans? If so what air filter base did you use? I've tried two 14" drop bases and both hit the TV/Throttle cable bracket so I can't get any drop there.
I still have the stock hood so I am trying to find the lowest air cleaner possible. I haven't put my hood back on yet, but with the RPM Air Gap intake and new engine mounts it seems to sit high. I ran a piece of tape from fender to fender and measured down to the throttle body and I've got almost no clearance at all. I like the stock hood, but I'm afraid I'll either have to get a shorter intake or a cowl hood.
I still use my 700R4 and I used a 1/2" spacer that you can buy from Summit or Jegs, they are plastic and allow for any trimming you may need to do. You will never get this under a stock hood, it's just going to be too high. I put a L-88 hood scoop that I bought from Summit on my stock hood which is the original plastic hood that came on the car back in 82. I finished it up last season and turned out nice, looks seamless.
OK, If you've got some, would you mind posting pictures of your hood, both top and underside of it?
I was looking at the Goodmark steel hood like Ron U.S.M.C. has. It has a nice smooth appearance to it.
(https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...ml#post6016969)
Wow, I knew there were clearance differences from Camaro to Firebird I didn't realize it was that big.
I am running an older Edelbrock drop base, on an RPM Airgap, a 1 inch spacer under the throttlebody and a 2.5in filter element, I did trim the lip of the base down to almost nothing. I have a strong 1/2in to 3/4in hood clearance. I don't have the 7004r issue to deal with though, have you looked at aftermarket cable/bracketry that sits lower? Most carb stuff works without issue, just be sure your kickdown cable pulls properly.
I have heard of some strangeness when running dual planes with the Terminator system and we are experiencing a bit of it on dads Nova so we are gearing up to try a single plane Super Victor Jr. on his car. Mine runs decent but does still have a few quirks that I haven't been able to beat yet, I think the manual trans in mine makes some of it easier to live with. If we see results on his I will be changing also.
Wow, I knew there were clearance differences from Camaro to Firebird I didn't realize it was that big.
Yes, I always thought the Firebird had less clearance than a Camaro. While that throttle bracket is a real PITA, there has to be something pushing this higher with this setup. I reused the original clamshells from my 305TPI, but the 350 block is supposedly out of a '94 Suburban. I used new rubber motor mounts, no carb spacers. I really like the louvered IROC hood look, so much so that this was one of the reasons I bought this car (the other was the blue paint). I dislike tall cowl hoods but could deal with a 2" inch rise. I really thought I'd done enough measuring before making these plans and purchases, but I did do them on worn out mounts and a block I'm not using. Live and learn I guess. Now to decide where to spend more money. On a new hood or a different intake.
Here's my finished Terminator installed. Mine is running really good once it hits closed loop, open loop it is still kind of finicky but I am just leaving it alone. I could really use some tuning done by someone to get it better. I did install the new 3.5" touch screen, that is huge difference for sure.
Well, thought I would revive this old thread, I've been running my Holley Terminator system since 2014 with just using the EFI and not timing. So, decided to pull the trigger and buy the components needed to make the switch over computer controlled timing to take advantage of the many benefits it offers including built rev limiter. So, anyone here using the Terminator system and if so, are you using it for timing? I could use a few pointers as to how get this done so that it will start and run, I have been in contact with Holley techs to get some help with some wiring questions about the coil and new harnesses that I have to use. Not sure on tach hook up with these smaller remote coils that are the norm for the later GM cars with the small cap HEI. Hopefully I can get through this while the car is not in use for the winter, I've started getting things removed and getting the TDC before removing old dizzy so I have it. Thanks for any input and tips in advance.
I started out with my setup controlling timing. If you're on Facebook you should join the Holley discussion board. Great Facebook page for info like this and the Admins keeps it all Holley talk only. https://www.facebook.com/groups/389548721383891/
I started out with my setup controlling timing. If you're on Facebook you should join the Holley discussion board. Great Facebook page for info like this and the Admins keeps it all Holley talk only. https://www.facebook.com/groups/389548721383891/
Sorry I don't do any social media, but I have been on the Holley Forums to read up on this Terminator system, thanks.
If I remember correctly there is a section in the installation manual for using a small cap HEI. Many people seem to be going after the Dual sync distributor now. I have a stock replacement small cap HEI, I do warn you that this is a place to use a genuine Delco unit, Napa has them pretty reasonably priced. I had a couple off name reman units give me fits, the pickup coil inside is definitely different. The ECU will end up getting its tach info through the ignition module harness that you will need to buy from Holley to plug into the terminator harness, your tach in the dash will go to the white wire on the coil connector, all the connector ends for the coil to distributor jumper and the coil power and tach are available at Rockauto for the best deal i found when i did mine.
Thanks for the reply, I do have a genuine GM module coming from Rockauto since everything I've read on the Holley forums says you must do this if you are not using a factory GM dizzy. Mine is an aftermarket unit so I will change it out before staring car. I still have to make a coil mount which I am doing. I have all the other harnesses both for the coil and the harness from Holley to get everything up and running.
If I remember correctly there is a section in the installation manual for using a small cap HEI. Many people seem to be going after the Dual sync distributor now. I have a stock replacement small cap HEI, I do warn you that this is a place to use a genuine Delco unit, Napa has them pretty reasonably priced. I had a couple off name reman units give me fits, the pickup coil inside is definitely different. The ECU will end up getting its tach info through the ignition module harness that you will need to buy from Holley to plug into the terminator harness, your tach in the dash will go to the white wire on the coil connector, all the connector ends for the coil to distributor jumper and the coil power and tach are available at Rockauto for the best deal i found when i did mine.
I thought the small cap hei was going to be the easiest most cost effective way to get this done. I remember through our past conversations that you've had yours quite a while, how's your car running? I am looking forward to seeing how much difference the car will run, I had the efi side running pretty good but felt it had much more if I would just step up to having the ecu take care of the timing. It will be nice to have the rev limiter that is part of the timing control, I updated to the 3.5" back in 2015, I'm guessing you use a laptop for your car? I have the usb cable to hook up my laptop but have not done so, a little nervous about that part.
I thought the small cap hei was going to be the easiest most cost effective way to get this done. I remember through our past conversations that you've had yours quite a while, how's your car running? I am looking forward to seeing how much difference the car will run, I had the efi side running pretty good but felt it had much more if I would just step up to having the ecu take care of the timing. It will be nice to have the rev limiter that is part of the timing control, I updated to the 3.5" back in 2015, I'm guessing you use a laptop for your car? I have the usb cable to hook up my laptop but have not done so, a little nervous about that part.
The GM small cap stuff is the most affordable and simple way to go for sure. Mine runs well, The timing control helps idle control when there is a lopey camshaft involved as it can vary to help maintain a more stable idle. Rev limiter does come in handy for us stick shifters as well. I do have the 3.5 in screen in the car, but also use a laptop at times, I don't have to mess with it much these days I have over 25K miles on the system. I did lose another throttle position sensor last fall, fought a cheap fuel pump not keeping up a couple years ago, and the ignition pickup falling apart in a cheap reman distributor before going with the Delco unit. All in all, I am happy with it and am hopefully Long Hauling power tour this June again.
Thanks for your input, I am looking forward to seeing how this runs once I get everything in place. Friend of mine is going weld me up a coil holder that I designed making a mockup of it out of cardboard. Once that is done I am ready to finish this up, module should be here by about Monday or Tuesday, then we'll see what happens. I may contact you again when I get to the point that I try hooking up my laptop. I have V3 software on the laptop and have the V3 in a zip file for download to the ecm, since I believe the ecm is using V2. Thanks again, take care..
-while I am not going to be running the holley terminator, I think some of it still applies to my Holley sniper setup.
Lurbie and CC 82 z28 ...
I see you guys were discussing cables (throttle and 700r4 TD cable) as well as spacers. It has been a while since you guys had discussed that topic and I wanted to see how you guys finalized your cable/spacer/linkage setups? it seems unlikely that my OEM 1987 TPI throttle cable will work right? it is going to be too long? I should try to find a 3rd gen carburetor or TBi throttle cable basically? any suggestions?
- same for the 700r4 TD cable, ?? thanks guys!
-while I am not going to be running the holley terminator, I think some of it still applies to my Holley sniper setup.
Lurbie and CC 82 z28 ...
I see you guys were discussing cables (throttle and 700r4 TD cable) as well as spacers. It has been a while since you guys had discussed that topic and I wanted to see how you guys finalized your cable/spacer/linkage setups? it seems unlikely that my OEM 1987 TPI throttle cable will work right? it is going to be too long? I should try to find a 3rd gen carburetor or TBi throttle cable basically? any suggestions?
- same for the 700r4 TD cable, ?? thanks guys!
I went with the bracket/cable system from Bowtie Overdrive.com, it is pricey but it gave me exactly what I needed at the time to make it all work. I would suggest that you contact Holley and question them about what brackets you would need to the Sniper setup, I know there are some really good products out there now to make it all work without it being expensive. The Bowtie Overdrive system had a different spring that is in the trans that the tv cable attaches to in the trans that I had to replace as well as one of their tv cables, it is a complete system but it works and gives me fine tuning of the tv cable. I think you would need the tbi cable for sure as was stated in previous posts.
-while I am not going to be running the holley terminator, I think some of it still applies to my Holley sniper setup.
Lurbie and CC 82 z28 ...
I see you guys were discussing cables (throttle and 700r4 TD cable) as well as spacers. It has been a while since you guys had discussed that topic and I wanted to see how you guys finalized your cable/spacer/linkage setups? it seems unlikely that my OEM 1987 TPI throttle cable will work right? it is going to be too long? I should try to find a 3rd gen carburetor or TBi throttle cable basically? any suggestions?
- same for the 700r4 TD cable, ?? thanks guys!
The TPI throttle cable was too long. I originally swapped in a TBI throttle cable, but that was a hair too short and on the way home one day a wide open throttle launch ripped the OE style clip out of the pedal bracket. I tried fixing that once and it came loose again, so I ended up with a Lokar throttle cable which I still had to make a custom adapter to connect to the pedal.
On the TV cable I modified the end of it to shorten its travel, and it lasted until I broke the crank in two about 5,000 miles after I built the engine. I'll likely go to a custom or Lokar cable after I build my new engine. I never ran any spacers, the RPM Air Gap already has a cutout in it that seems to solve the problem of older style dual planes.
interesting, ok
(sorry to go kind of "off topic" on the holley terminator thread, but I figured the cable/bracket info might be similar)
so I've read a bunch about the Lokar cable, and the fast fst -304147 brackets. I think they would require the use of aftermarket cables, you mentioned you used a lokar throttle cable but had to craft a way to mount it to the accelerator pedal.... hmm. im sure I could make something work, or build it to work. hopefully?
I had heard of the bowtie overdrive kit also. I am not afraid of taking the trans pan off (only if I really needed to use that kit), but I would prefer to avoid doing so since there are other options.
It makes it more confusing to me that I dont have the engine (or holley sniper) in the car yet (let alone at my house) but I am trying to get a jump start on this portion of the project, so that I can order what i need beforehand if possible. I'll keep doing research, and probably call holley tech line too.
In reality, I dont mind buying a lokar bracket, lokar tv cable, and lokar throttle cable.. but I just want to make sure it will work and that i am not forgetting something or setting stuff up wrong.
interesting, ok
(sorry to go kind of "off topic" on the holley terminator thread, but I figured the cable/bracket info might be similar)
so I've read a bunch about the Lokar cable, and the fast fst -304147 brackets. I think they would require the use of aftermarket cables, you mentioned you used a lokar throttle cable but had to craft a way to mount it to the accelerator pedal.... hmm. im sure I could make something work, or build it to work. hopefully?
I had heard of the bowtie overdrive kit also. I am not afraid of taking the trans pan off (only if I really needed to use that kit), but I would prefer to avoid doing so since there are other options.
It makes it more confusing to me that I dont have the engine (or holley sniper) in the car yet (let alone at my house) but I am trying to get a jump start on this portion of the project, so that I can order what i need beforehand if possible. I'll keep doing research, and probably call holley tech line too.
In reality, I dont mind buying a lokar bracket, lokar tv cable, and lokar throttle cable.. but I just want to make sure it will work and that i am not forgetting something or setting stuff up wrong.
Thought I'd give an update on my getting the new small cap HEI installed. I was surprised when I cranked the engine over and after a short time it started up but distributor was a little retarded so I shut it down and connected my timing light up to see where the timing was since the ecu was calling for 15* initial, so I turned the distributor to advance it to 15* and locked it down, it was now synced to the ecu. Started it today, and was amazed on how good it runs, now I just need to drive it and let it learn through all rpm ranges and loads. Guess I should of done this much earlier, but admit, my knowledge was somewhat limited so I just reading many articles on doing this trying to make sure I had all my bases covered. I was really surprised that I had no errors or wiring issues and actually got the firing order correct the first time, lol. I'm ready to start cruising and enjoy the car this year.
nice. I know the feeling. I just "finished" my build and got it on the road last saturday night!. already put 180 miles on it and even hit the dragstrip yesterday too, clocking a 12.59 112mph pass. I plan on locking out the distributor soon and letting the sniper control timing. and I need to learn how to tune from someone knowledgeable...since my brain's tuning knowledge is about 0.01%. glad to hear you got everything up and running. it is a great feeling!
nice. I know the feeling. I just "finished" my build and got it on the road last saturday night!. already put 180 miles on it and even hit the dragstrip yesterday too, clocking a 12.59 112mph pass. I plan on locking out the distributor soon and letting the sniper control timing. and I need to learn how to tune from someone knowledgeable...since my brain's tuning knowledge is about 0.01%. glad to hear you got everything up and running. it is a great feeling!
Yes, I know what you mean by the brains tuning knowledge, I'm in the same boat. My 64 year old brain doesn't always understand and I'm not afraid to learn if I have someone who teach me. I hooked my laptop up to see if it would hook and it told me the software needs updated in the ecu, I haven't got a clue on what to do so I am leaving well enough alone, it starts, runs, and is getting better with each drive, so if it's not broke, don't fix it...
12-19-2015, 08:33 AM
