That's actually pretty common with L-31s: High-nickel blocks, and overdrive transmissions means a much lower average rpm over the life of the engine.

 

OK, OK, I know I'm coming into this WAY late, and I'm sure your choice has been made, but for less than 300 bucks more, you can have a genuine GM Goodwrench L31 long-block.

At under 2,100 bucks, with free shipping, there is no better value.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Perf...30283/10002/-1

 

Yes way late haha. Motor is in the car and the L31 is reman per gm where as the L30 is new. Hence the R at the end of the L31-R.

Cost was also a factor. Overall I'm definitely happy with the L30. The L31 only has 25 more HP at the cost difference of about $400. I only paid 1600 from summit for my L30

Last factor was, in theory it should take less fuel to run a 305 vs a 350. MPG! Haha

 

OK, First, I've read the rest of your thread, and your car is really cool. You've done a great job, and I offer my congratulations. Clearly your choice has been made, and you're happy with it, however, I want to correct one thing, as I don't want disinformation spreading.

I was helping a neighbor with a blown engine several years ago, and did a TON of research on this.

GM SKU: 12530283, the L31-R long block is a new engine, manufactured in Mexico. I actually called GM regarding this when I was doing the research. If you look at the listing on Pace Performance Parts, click "details", and under "Condition", it says "New".

http://paceperformance.com/i-6484922...-4-ton-up.html

You'll also notice that everything about the description, including the warranty, is identical to your L30.

On the Crate Engine Depot listing, you'll see it says "New" in the description (1st line)

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/57-L...P9443C718.aspx

And price on these things is always variable. With a little searching, I found one for under 1,800 bucks, with free shipping, plus the 100.00 core charge.

https://chevroletperformanceparts.co...5003500-trucks

Again, I'm not trying to start an argument with you over which is better. You've made your choice, you're clearly happy with it, and that's the only thing that matters. I'm excited to see you finish it, and have many happy years with it.

 

If you can make 230 RWHP with this, you'll be in the same zone as a 5.7 TPI Camaro, or Firebird, and they aren't hard to get well into the 13s. That would be really cool to see you do.

 

I have a ? ... If its a new motor y do they need a core back ? Not trying to b a dick .. Just saying

91' bird 305 TBI T-5, trick flow 175 cc heads, 4.10 gears, lots of suspension upgrades......... 24mpg @ 2300rpm hwy 65mph ........ 8.63@ 85mph 1/8th on street tires... 8.000's soon

 

No hostility from me and thanks for the compliments! The core was also another reason for me going with the L30. L31 is a great motor.


Exactly. I really wanted to stay with a 5.0. Feels kind of underdog ish. And as you said it should make around the same as a 5.7 of the same year. I'm good with that! Gotta dial in EBL!

Great question! Now Sean you wanna talk some HP? Sleeper here has a beast of a motor with a fisher price exhaust. Just messing with you sleep haha

 

Lol its not that fast really ... I'd hardly call it a beast

Edit: we will just say its perty fast for a 305 TBI

91' bird 305 TBI T-5, trick flow 175 cc heads, 4.10 gears, lots of suspension upgrades......... 24mpg @ 2300rpm hwy 65mph ........ 8.63@ 85mph 1/8th on street tires... 8.000's soon

 

That's actually a really good question. All I can say is, it's says "New" on the Pace Performance site, it says "New" on the CrateEngine Depot site, the tech I spoke to on the Scoggins-Dickey help line several years ago said it was new, as did the parts manager at Jim Glover Chevrolet here in sunny Tulsa, Oklahoma said it was new.

Pace doesn't charge a core charge on the L30, but they don't charge a core when they sell the L31, either.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet+Perf...30283/10002/-1

Their price is a little higher than the other sites, I'm betting they include the core charge in the price, as they do the shipping.

GM Goodwrench used to have their own site, with their own customer service, but I can't find it.

 

Faster than mine. You are in the LT1 power range right?

I guess we wont know for sure until someone orders it haha.


UPDATE: In case anyone was curious. Here are some of the tables myself and RF have been working on with the tune. We are on our 12 or 13th revision now. Been battling a lean condition but it looks like it is sensing a little rich now.

RF has been dealing with the VE and SA tables while I work on dialing in the cold start/idle tables.

 

LT1was rated @ 275 at the crank I do believe ... After longtubes exhaust and a better tune I'm hoping for 350+ at the crank

91' bird 305 TBI T-5, trick flow 175 cc heads, 4.10 gears, lots of suspension upgrades......... 24mpg @ 2300rpm hwy 65mph ........ 8.63@ 85mph 1/8th on street tires... 8.000's soon

 

Need to pull 2* of timing in the 90 KPA, 2800 rpm cell and 1* in the surrounding cells and 1* in the cells with 30 or so counts.. Should neutralize most of those knock counts.

 

Rated 275-305 depending on year and options. Have had numerous friends put them on the dyno and even the Automatics have put down 250-260 RWHP.

 

They are NEW engines, the both the "282 and "283 part numbers.

 

Thanks fast! RF is out of state for a few days so I'll be taking the leap and making adjustments. I'll start with what you recommended and report back.

 

chat Today at 2:00 PM
To
seanof30306@yahoo.com
12530283 is new
Allan

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Chat Conversation:
Leon: Hi! Thank you for visiting Pace Performance. How may I assist you?

Sean Phillips: I have a question about the L31-R long block - 12530283 - 5.7L (L31-R) 1996-2000 CHEVY/GMC FULL SIZE TRUCKS 3/4 TON & UP.

Leon: Let me assist you with that.

Sean Phillips: is it new, or remanufactured?

Leon: Nice to have you with us, Sean.

Sean Phillips: thanks, leon

Leon: You are welcome.

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Leon: Thank you again for visiting Pace Performance. While you are waiting for our technical department, check out these Limited Supply Specials: http://paceperformance.com/c-191808-...-specials.html, Our new on-line GM parts Catalog http://paceperformance.com/p-4873-oe...log_login.html , Custom Performance Crate Engines http://paceperformance.com/c-142522-...e-engines.html

 

Made the changes. Will load and log today.

 

Looks good although I would have pulled 1* out of the 2,800 rpm, 95 KPA cell too but not a huge deal either way.

 

Yeah I hear you. Just did the log. Definitely still some knock pretty much in all of those table, but it looks better than before. Will post the screen shot tonight.

Should I be dialing back in 2* increments or 1*?

 

I judge that based off the severity of the knock compared to the adjacent cells. 1* increments is fine IMO.

 

Will do that then.

Also notice that at 3/4ish throttle the O2 MV is around like 900ish. That's way lean correct? But BLM and int were showing around 129

 

I would probably shoot for 920-930 to start with but 900 is definately in the right ballpark. BLM and INT will be useless if you are in PE mode wide open throttle enrichment.

 

I was seeing 934 @95KPA at 60% TPS @ 3600ish RPM.

Well Fast355, here are the results from the initial reduction of timing from earlier today. I went ahead and removed another degree from all areas of knock.

Also take a look at the VE tables. RF and myself are thinking we are pretty much dialed in on that.

 

282 is 2 bolt main, 283 is 4 bolt main. As far as I can tell, that is the only difference between the two.

 

Can't get much better on the VE corrections then that.

For the knock retard, I usually remove half of the peak retard. If the retard doesn't get better and power drops off, then need to start looking for false knock.

RBob.

 

There are more differences than that. The 283 has a single roller timing chain and the "283" I bought 8 years ago and have in my Express van came with a forged crank.

 

The 059s definately do not like alot of timing, atleast in my 10:1 build with TPI. I peaked 30* at 4,800 rpm. That is the spark map I was running in my heavy G20 van with a stock stalled 700r4 and 3.08s. Had the air/fuel ratio dialed in between 12.6 and 13.2:1 on a wideband.




For comparison this was a stock GM spark map for the same vehicle with an earlier 305 engine with 14022601 heads, 350 "929" cam and a feedback q-jet carb.



The Vortec heads liked less cruise timing, but more low-speed and WOT timing than the older heads.

 

From the broiler (PHX 110degF)

We'll have to trim timing at higher RPM's - base bin was put together using timing tables from L99/LT1 calibration and is probably way too aggressive for 059 heads (L30 engine).

I did see reduction in total counts between original bin and the one posted last night. RS - keep taking out 1 to 1.5 deg per tune and see where it drops off substantially (2200 to 3200 RPM 50 to 95 kPa).

//RF

 

What did you have it set at? I did another run last night and went WOT about 2-3 times briefly. O2 showed rich but still had some knock in the 90-2800/3000. Had some residual knock in the other areas but most of it has resolved.

I believe that section of the table is about 26 degrees of timing.

Will do, going to modify the bin today and pull another 1.5 from problem areas. I believe that areas is running about 26 degrees of timing right now

 

For the most part what you see in my tables are what it was running. Had some IAT and CTS compensation in it, but only in cold or hot weather.

My WOT 90-100 KPA range timing maps gave roughly

400 = 7* BTDC
1200 = 13*
2000 = 20*
3200 = 23*
4800 = 30*

I had a 369 module so my timing above 3,200* was about 2* more than shown above.

 

Wow so I'm about 6 degrees more advanced than you with the same heads? Maybe that's the issue. Curious if I should just drop it down that far or continue in increments.

 

Ok Fast355, RF, RBob, here are the tables from last night after I did the corrections. Today I subtracted more timing from the tables. I also attached the full SA table for review.

 

One thing I notice in your SA tables, it is my opinon that spark maps should always have lower values at higher KPA. Where you have 24* at 2,800 and 90 KPA and higher values at 100 KPA is knock wainting to happen. I like a smooth tapering off of SA as MAP rises and load increases.

 

Wow. Hat's off to you for doing your own tweaks to the tune here. I was flailing about trying to keep up with this L03 / L30 swap as it was. But once you guys got into this, I'm just about totally lost. It's a whole other language.

 

I could agree with that. What do you suggest then? I haven't been in the higher revs/kpa yet

 

I would copy paste your 90 kpa row into the 95 and 100 kpa rows, then offset the 95 kpa row by -0.75* and the 100 kpa row by -1.5* for a start. Use the tunerpro editing tools and it takes all of 30 seconds.

 

Yeah thats what I've been using. I just logged again with those adjustments that I made earlier.

Still showing knock in that 2800 @90 table and of course the same rpm @95. Going to pull 2* out of that table and 1 everywhere else.

Most other areas are beginning to neutralize

Fast I haven't been adjusting the PE advance or idle spark. Mostly because I don't know what they are or do. Care to explain?

Thanks! Trust me I am still lost but RF and fast are holding my hand through it. The Spark tables are easy to adjust. Now the VE tables which RF did are difficult as far as I know. I'm learning a little as I go.

 

PE Spark= Power Enrichment it is timing added only at WOT. With the big heavy van it was not uncommon to be in 3rd or even 2nd gear with the RPM pretty high and not be over the 60% TPS for PE. To keep from overheating the pistons and combustion chambers, I kept the timing pretty conservative when in closed loop and only really advance the timing at WOT when the engine has plenty of fuel to keep things cool.

IIRC Idle spark is not used in your ECM. That was a speed density TPI ECM calibration. Idle spark is only used under 2-3% TPS and at low vehicle speeds.

 

I see. Im going to have to check into that later on tonight. Here are the tables with the suggested corrections.

 

PE is about like the power valve of a carb. Under load, dump fuel and go. With the exception of ECM control allowing you to advance the timing when the fuel goes in.

That is the change log. What does the actual timing map look like? It would be funny if the heavy load, WOT map started looking like my L30 TPI setup.

 

will post that asap. just did my work commute with the new tables here is the knock

 

Quite a transformation really! Are you running an IAT and IAT spark compensation? Alot of the time you will find you have no knock below a certain IAT and you can remove timing at that IAT reading and above and kill the knock with a hot engine. This is equally important at high coolant temps. Many times knock only happens when the engine gets heat soaked like taking off from a traffic light in hot weather with the a/c on.

 

Honestly no. I've been wanting to adjust that table along with the PE table but not confident in my knowledge of how they function.

What do you recommend now? Another 1.5 off the table?

 

RS is running default bin configuration with IAT compensation enabled. His IAT is in a stock location, OE air cleaner assembly. IMHO, SA table is very close, and will need only minor tweaking and smoothing after reviewing data logs.

Take out another 1.5 deg where counts are high and 0.75 deg where KS counts are below 20 or so.

//RF

 

Ok so I made some more changes to the table. Took out an additional 1.5 from the 90 2800 cell and from the 95 3200 cell. All other areas received a reduction of 1.

Here's the table now.

 

What kinda gas r u using ?

Edit : or should I say what r u tunning for regular or premium ? E10 ?

91' bird 305 TBI T-5, trick flow 175 cc heads, 4.10 gears, lots of suspension upgrades......... 24mpg @ 2300rpm hwy 65mph ........ 8.63@ 85mph 1/8th on street tires... 8.000's soon

 

Standard 87 chevron. I should be running 91 but I want it to be able to run 87 without knock

 

I wonder what the quench is like in this motor ? ... Anyone know ?

91' bird 305 TBI T-5, trick flow 175 cc heads, 4.10 gears, lots of suspension upgrades......... 24mpg @ 2300rpm hwy 65mph ........ 8.63@ 85mph 1/8th on street tires... 8.000's soon

 

Hmmm... Our regular is 83 , midgrade 87 , premium 93 ... Most stations around here are E10 so I set commanded AFR at 14.2 , hwy mode I think is 15.5 or so depending on load ... I rarely get any knock and if I do its always in low RPM low load areas ... I've never seen ANY knock counts above 60kpa and I've tried a lot of different SA tables but I always run 93

91' bird 305 TBI T-5, trick flow 175 cc heads, 4.10 gears, lots of suspension upgrades......... 24mpg @ 2300rpm hwy 65mph ........ 8.63@ 85mph 1/8th on street tires... 8.000's soon

 

Well that's because your motor is a beast compared to mine haha