hey guys,

old f-body guy but new to tbi stuff. i've had a half dozen f-bodies, all generations, lt1, ls1, lb9, etc, but never had a tbi car.

im big into lt1s for you swap guys, if you need any help, im here for you.

anyway.......

im working on a beater i bought just for a daily driver kicking around car, it feels really good to be back in a 3rd gen after years of playing with 4th gens.

she's an 88 base model. drivetrain is in very good shape, and the stealerships hosed the p/o to the point where damn near everything in the engine bay is less than a decade old.

so, im not looking for performance here, i just want to keep this crappy old motor ticking along.

just a few dumb questions i'm hoping you can help me with,

first off: the a/c is dead and has always been dead. the air pump is also noisy, and this car hasnt had cats in years (and never will...). i like a naked engine bay and i'm looking forward to getting rid of that plumbing.

is there a belt routing that actually works on these things, where a/c and AIR pump can be bypassed without any delete pullies?

if not, how long of a belt should i get just to bypass AIR while im waiting for a cheap delete pulley? i read some article, but for some reason a longer belt....makes no sense while i stare at it? seems like it should be shorter.

second.... obviously want an open element like everyone else, that snorkel/thermac crap has to go.

.... any reason i cant just slice the stock lid wide open? the p/o already hucked an k&n element in there....

ugly is no problem.

or is it (airflow wise) actually worth it to get a flat bottom and ditch the spacer?

anyone know a part number of a cheap one that actually fits?

one more thing. when it's good and hot and i park for a few minutes then start it again, sometimes it'll flash up for about 2-3 seconds then......dead.

if i force it to run with throttle, it'll keep going after that and not die.

is this some weird typical tbi problem that anyone is aware of, or should i just dig in and figure it out? (not afraid of diagnosis, just figure it might be some common tbi bullshit)

thanks for your help if any

 

Almost all of your questions can be answered by seaching. Especially the Smog delete etc. Seems like you kind of want to do things half assed(open element). Why not just do it correct the first time?

 

if you think cheaping out on a peice of **** car while gaining the same result is 'half-assed', you really dont know how to treat a beater ..

i've built shiny cars, this is not one of them.

thats why im asking, for example, has anyone ever just gutted the stock air cleaner housing? does it work or does it just end up fitting like crap?

also im willing to buy an ac delete pulley if necessary, just wondering if anyone has routed around without it, with any success, so i dont waste my time?

be glad if you can give me search terms i have not tried (i have)

this is not my first rodeo.

 

Just pull the smog pump, leave the compressor and remove plumbing for now. Buy a edelbrock open element for >$30 problem solved.

Buy a TBI fuel pressure gauge and check pressure for the other issue. Normal 9-13 psi. Hose between pump and lines commonly fails causing similar symptoms.

Apologies for the backlash, just gets tiring seeing some of the same questions posted nearly daily.

 

the one in-tank that runs to the sender lid, you mean?

i will check pressure for sure just during the usual tuneup, but a break in the line wouldn't be reactive to engine heat? it runs perfectly until shut down after a long drive..

it happened again today, felt way more like spark cut than fuel cut, it was a really sharp drop to zero.

no problem i've been there too

 

well, i went and made my own crappy open element; i just sawzalled the bottom of the stock lid and cleaned it up with the grinder.

plugged off that heat pipe crap and good to go.

doesn't look great but wasn't that hard, and cost nothin!

 

I was going to suggest welding the spider gears but figured you'd think I was being a smart a_ _

Any way I hated the way the delete pulley looked on my car so I kept the compressor..
I think it blends in better with my engine.

I had to keep/replace my air pump when it started to go out because of SMOG.

 

Do you want to include any photos with these modifications ?

 

haha yeah i'll take some soon; my phone camera is toast right now though, all you can see is fog. my contract is up, i just havent gone down to get a new phone yet out of lazyness. you know how it is.

the reason i got this junker is that theres something fun about a car that has some sharp edges and dirt everywhere, and you dont give a crap about.

dirty as a rule. if this car's engine bay ever looks half as clean as yours, it will lose its purpose. i have my 4th gen that i put a few thousand hours into, if i want to see a clean naked shiny engine bay.

weld the spider gears? hell man that'd be a shame, the PO put a brand new eaton posi rear end into this thing; but kept stock 3.08 gears....... !?

 

I gotta unsubscribe to this thread. The thought of it being a beater and treated like one kills me.

 

Agreed with RS-Chevy, this forum is about helping one another with our cars and also to share our own stories and recognize and enjoy other peoples work! If you want to talk about how crappy your gonna treat your 3rd gen, go do it on a 4th gen forum with your's.

 

This. These cars are becoming more and more rare and finding one in good shape is tough.

Deliberately destroying by neglecting one of the few remaining AMERICAN built Camaro's kills me. In the end, it is his car, and he can treat it like a highschool kid would. Just kills me to hear a third gen being treated this way. Maybe its because of the amount of work I put in mine makes this inconceivable.

If it were me, I would of bought a foreign car for a beater. Like a corolla or something. THATS a beater.

 

welll.....

if you cant understand why i would buy an abused base model tbi junker for a daily fun car to play with instead of a restoration job... and think this peice of junk is a precious thing that needs to be treated like a rare jewel just because it says camaro on it... well.. fine by me?

i've had many 3rd and 4th gens, some shiny, some not. some i poured thousands into, some weren't worth it.

this one is NOT in good shape, and being a base model junker not worth restoration.

why would i blow a bunch of money and time on it, if i wanted to make a really nice 3rd gen, i'd go 90s z28 vert, or iroc, or r7u/1le that deserves detail and a large budget.

you dont think a fukkered 3rd gen isnt a cool beater?

i do.

 

not dumping a bunch of money into a shitty car is treating it like crap?

wanting to make a part for cheap instead of buying one is treating it like crap?

...

 

This is my first Camaro and my first build ever.
Heres some of what it needed. =
The car was on its way to the junkyard. I took a chance and payed $500.00 for it.
Needed a fuel pump ,water pump , power steering unit ,new steering column, intake manifold gasket, front windshield ,new front bumper cover and lower valance, new rear hatch and hatch motor, some of the interior including seats,headliner ,door skins,etc.and of course paint
I have been working on it for around 8 years.

Heres the thing and I believe most would agree.
As difficult as it can be most of the time working on my car is a labor of love.
I "enjoy" working on my car to bring it into what I will call my vision.

Not only have I fixed what needed to be fixed but used aftermarket upgrades to do a lot of it.



The car has now become part of who I am.

Those of you that can't relate to that are missing out.

As far as your Eaton Posi goes, that's A LOT of money to put into a beater.

 

thats great, i've done that too.

does every car you own need that attention?

no

there's something really nice about a car you dont care to fix up and spend money on, but is still a cool car.

not every 3rd gen camaro is a worthy project.

 

oh, far as stuff like the posi goes, every car has a story, i guess.

no idea how the previous owner got talked into that instead of just throwing a good wrecker rear end into it or going open diff.

for what he spent on it, he coulda bought a good used 3rd gen in 1000x better condition without a blown rear.

just to give you an idea what kind of car this is, the passenger t-top took half the roof with it the first time i took it off, and there are peices of the seat that stab you when you climb into it. it also has six different generations of paint jobs on it.

and the dumbasses kept the stock 3.08 rear after all that, which is the worst part of these ol' lo3 cars?

the trans in this car has been rebuilt, but when reinstalled, they kept the original trans mount, which is now busted... replaced it yesterday, i had a few poly ones laying about

dont get me wrong, im going to fix that kind of stuff.

not resto fix it.

jbweld and paint, and wrecker parts.

 

I didnt say that, all im saying is if your gonna talk about "how you love a car that has dirt all over the place and just dont give a F&*#" , no one is going to want to hear that around here. Bring it to some where else!


BINGO!!!!!! Its just that because of this connection we have with our third gen's we are true enthusiasts that even seeing someone else's car being tortured hurts us.

 

alright, if you guys are all go show or no go, no big deal.

its not like i need much help, just was curious about some tbi stuff.

seeya around.

 

We are just trying to show you what this site is all about.

You will find some of the fastest, baddest, most beautiful Third Gens. on the planet here.
Most built from scratch.

Heres what I have done so far with my $500.00 wreck. It still needs a lot of work.=

 

i do that get



this one was my baby, i left that lb9 pretty stock, and put everything into suspension.. that was one rigid vert, probably a hundred pounds heavier than stock, but i could drift that car like a 240, and not a rattle.

i ended up selling it ages ago, verts need a garage for the winter, and i don't have one now..

thats why i got this junker, i really just miss how it feels being behind a 3rd gen dashboard.

doesnt mean i have thousands of dollars to throw into nice parts for it.

 

Its nice to see that you are familial with what owning a Third Gen. is about here.
Saving cars is what we do. One small piece at a time.

Maybe as you work on yours it will grow on you and then you might give it a bath.

Thats not meant to be sarcastic.

 

My friend, myself either do not have thousands of dollars to throw into my DD (my third gen). I have owned it since i was 17, put a decent amount of work and money into it myself that it is something to be proud of, even though it needs a **** load amount of work still! we just have some respect 'so to say' for our cars because of either how much we like them, the work ourselves have put into them or both and a massive amount of other reasons. Im just saying none of us are going to want to hear trash talk on a 3rd gen. that is all my friend!

This is my 'tbi beater' lol bad picture but the only one i have.

 

Could not have said it better myself.
Great looking car!

Very Nice! Just get a spoiler or something on that hatch!

Have a good one!

 

Hahaha thanks bro, but its nothing like the car above mine, Ron's. Its funny EVERYONE tells me to get a spoiler on that thing, but after pulling my aero wing off, i like the look of it w/o a spoiler. Obviously a working trunk motor would do some justice LOL

 

Yea trunk motors aren't too expensive. You can get them from rock auto or even top down solutions. I did mine in 07 from TDS and it still works.

 

I love it when self proclaimed know everythings ask basic questions, then are jerks to those that are trying to help. I really hate it when the "use the search tool" is mentioned instead of answering a simple question, however in this case the search tool would have provided all of the answers very quickly.

 

this has been answered, its best to throw delete pulley's on, if not leave the compressor and remove the pump, plenty of threads that talk about this

careful with this one, you might get the anti open element crowd jumping on you, lol

in all seriousness, the Edelbrock open element is the best bang for your buck, you can pick it up off the shelf at your local part store and it fits no problem, under $30, or buy a carb hat and run some tubing down for a CAI(this is technically the better option, but i don't like how it looks on a TBI motor)


sounds like the ICM,but maybe not since you can force it to run, could be plenty of other sensors that fail when they get hot


the reason these guys get defensive over thirdgens being treated as beaters is because this site is dedicated to saving and restoring these cars, not for guys who just want to putt putt around in one until it gives up or rots away(this is why over on 4th gen sites, they poke fun at most of us, that would be the place to call this car a "beater")

I understand where you're coming from that not every car deserves any kind of budget to restore it, obviously a high mile L03 car doesn't deserve the restoration that a 1LE would(unless it has sentimental value)

but we all like to here the steps taken to keep these cars out of junkyards no matter the trim level, we would rather see a patched up 2.8 that is being saved even if for the next owner, than to see it get scrapped because it was just a beater anyway

I think the "beater" term was the biggest issue here, we like to call them "Drivers" as in "I'm not looking to restore this car, but i will keep it in as good of condition as i can, and drive the **** out of it for fun"

Beater sounds like your going to be driving the car into the ground without the thought of maintenance or even washing it lol

 

i call a spade a spade.

this car is beat up, has been beat on, will stay beat up, will be beat on.... equals beater.

i plan to keep this thing alive and suffering for as long as possible. im not afraid to change fluids.

hmmm washing...

thing is; i'd be afraid the shitty homebrew paint jobs would come off, and the decals underneath, which weren't removed before painting, might show themselves

in all seriousness i will end up painting this car. it will not be awesome paint, just way better than what's on there right now, most of which im pretty sure is tremclad bbq paint.

i'd never let that happen to any car i own...

 

glad to hear you will at a minimum be somewhat saving the car, like i said i understand just using a thirdgen as a daily with no intention of an actual restoration that costs big money, im actually trying to help a buddy find one now that is in good enough condition to drive, but bad enough condition to not worry about parking lot dings every time you leave the car.

good luck with it, I'll do my best to answer any questions you may have on the TBI end of things, it's what i learned on with these cars so its mostly what i know

 

ok, lets talk some more

this car is working out ok with a bit of cleanup work, it's finally starting to grow on me.

i've done the basic crap to it, broken trans mount, slack engine mounts, door pins, re-wired tons of stuff that was totally messed up from botched alarm installs, etc... checked plugs..wires..distributor.. airpumpdelete blahblahblah

and more importantly, got the stereo working so i can blast some zeppelin to drown out the squeaky beaternoises.

but it's really...really slow. i mean.. slower than i can handle.

and i have owned an iron duke 3rd gen.

this car is slower than an iron duke.

less torque, harder to launch... no sweet spot in torque..nothing.

this is not just a butt dyno evaluation.

my reference point is i have floored this thing in a merge lane that i used to end up at 120+kph in my iron duke no problem, this thing struggles to hit 80.

80s civics are passing me.

im wondering if something is messed up.

so far i've determined that injectors are both spraying ok, not leaking, fuel pressure is consistent under load, iat sensor ohms out as expected. it runs poorly both closed loop and open loop. tested compression on the easy to reach cylinders, it was even and healthy.

i gave 'er 'bout 3 degrees of base timing (it was parked at exactly 0 when i checked it). distributor is in great shape as are plug wires. plugs read even, but a bit lean.

i really need to get this thing on a datalogger i suppose. all my aldl cables are tied up.

any ideas what to check next?

 

hahahaha sounds like the good ole lo3!!! There wont be any problem with talking down on the stock form of the lo3 because i dont think any one enjoys it!@!! Most likely its just the tired original motor so your probably looking at 150hp or less (LOL) but comparing it to the iron duke? WOW somethings gotta be wrong...... that 5.0 was a dog do not get me wrong, but not that slow. I would start by checking Fuel Pressure. Normal Fuel pressure is around 11-13 psi. Ive seen TBI's 'running' at as low as 5psi. alot of us use this kit and it works great

 

i get just over 12psi constant even at WOT. i think the fuel pump has been replaced.

engine has been rebuilt 50,000km ago.

i guess i'll find out when i get a datalogger on it and see if anything weird is going on

 

What about the tranny. A bad tranny can rob a ton of power from the motor. Just found that out with my motor swap. LO3 is a dog though. Don't expect it to pull well at all above above 3500ish. Its a motor made for low end torque. Nothing else.

 

its a stick and the clutch is fresh, so no issue there

i realize its a dog and i've never owned an lo3 before but i expected a bit more

like on a sharp corner in the pissing rain in 2nd gear, if i floor it, it should break loose. doesn't take 170hp to do that. it doesn't even come close.

 

Idk who in there right mind would TRY to spin out coming around a corner on a rainy day, but yes your correct it should open loose EASILY. Something is definitely wrong. Check timing possibly super 'retarded' (lol)

 

i never said i'm in my right mind, but dont you like to have some extra fun when it's wet out? it rains a lot here, i guess i'm used to it.

well, it was dead on zero. i bumped it to just under 4 degrees. didn't make much of a difference (other than it idles a bit more smoothly)

 

the longblock has been rebuilt at some point, but details were sketchy.

one theory i have is that perhaps there aren't LO3 swirl port heads on this thing.

i'm going to pull a valve cover tomorrow and see if the castings match.

cal is AMYB (entirely stock). perhaps my VE is way out to lunch.

i really need another damn aldl cable so i can datalog this thing, all my others are still tied up.

thanks for suggestions so far

 

hahahaha alot of us arent in our right mind either!!! ;P
No personally not when its wet because i have a 'decent' amount of torque so its not that fun spinning out of control. To be honest though it happened once when i was coming out of a parking lot light (i was a kid) it was wet and i hit the gas pretty decent and i spun out and almost hit the median! luckily i drove off quickly lol. Any who after that rain i kept under 10%TPS . Yeah it RARELY rains here we get 11" of rain annually.

Possibly, im not to good at diagnostic's sorry my friend, hopefully some one with a little more knowledge can pop in! Although, your heads should be casting 187's ( last 3 digits you probably already know that). Pull off driver side, a little easier.

 

'out of control' shouldn't describe your car when you break it loose intentionally, an unpredictable car needs upgrades..

well thanks for saving me looking that up anyways, that helps.

i'll get 'er figured, i always do

 

When your intentionally slamming on the gas when hitting a corner in the rain it will break loose and most likely spin out of control. These cars are not drifters.

Now if your intentionally trying to slam on the gas in 1st from a stop sign, thats a different story.

 

Stupid troll is stupid

 

...?

 

Obviously angry that the bar kicked him out before closing time.

Look how out of control this guys is. lol