I have a '92 305 TBI, daily driver, cold and hot weather. The engine is usually kept between idle and 3000 rpm.
As of now, I've done the mods in my sig.
But now I'm thinking about changing my cam for a better one than the stock cam. After doing some research I have a choice of three cams which are in question.
I'd greatly appreciate your opinions on these three.

All are hydraulic roller cams:

1. Crane 2030 Powermax

duration @ .050 Int/Exh. 204/214 LSA 116 Lift Int/Exh .429/452

For this one I am not sure if it is suitable for a daily driver. Does anyone have this cam in an engine similar to mine and can share his experience with me?

2. Crane 2020 Powermax

duration @ .050 Int/Exh. 194/204 LSA 111 Lift Int/Exh .407/.429

This one is milder than the one before. But it has even less duration than the stock cam and even less lift. Does anyone have this cam in his car and is it any good? I wonder how it runs with the smaller LSA of 111. Will it give any power gains over the stock cam at all?

3. Competition Cams 08-500-8

duration @ .050 Int/Exh. 206/212 LSA 112 Lift Int/Exh .480/488

I personally tend to this one. But... the lift seems a bit too HIGH for the reworked stock heads. LSA should be O.K.
Anyone having this one on his car?

Next is, will any of these cams work with my stock ecm?

BTW... yes, after all I have read here I'd put in the LT1 cam, but there is no way getting a used one here in Germany and a new one is more expensive than one of these aftermarket cams.

Thank you,

Andreas

 

I think you would be better off with the 2020 cam. It has more duration @.050 than the stocker and the lift is slightly more. It will work well in the rpm range you stay in and should pull hard to 5000 without any sacrifice in low end torque. The 111º lobe separation will give you more peak torque and should work well with your 5 speed. You will be much happier with this smaller cam.

Lonnie

 

Unless you are going to do gears and a higher stall converter, the 2020 will be perfect. I have a 207:214 in my L03 and it is a bit much on the reving, plus it has no low end torque, and I do have gears. the 2030 is a cam meant for a 350, so rember any cam that is meant for a 350 will be much hotter in the 305. The last cam you mentioned is a no go. It has too much lift for those heads from all the TBI head accounts I've heard, and you don't want to drop below 112 LSA and that is pushing it. The car will seam to run best around town with the 2020. That is my 2 cents, but if you are going to mod the car out big time, then obviously you wouldn't want to go with the 2020,whatever you decide, should include well matched components!(induction, intake, heads, cam). The 2020 is still decently hotter than that stock peanut cam. You indicate it has less duration than the stock cam, thas is incorrect. My recommendation in the 2020 for your present setup

YOU ALL SHOULD READ THIS LINK, it has shead new light on my decisions:


Chevy Small Block

 

I guess I contradicted myself, but I think 111 lobe is a bit too much. 112-117 is a better range for a street torque curve, but all the other #'s on the 2020 are good for an L03.

 

I have the Compucam 2030 in a 350 with TBI.
Very happy with it. Required a little more fuel pressure,runs great.Lots of torque from 2500-5500 rpm.
-Rich-

 

Thanks for your responses, folks!

What I want is a cam that pulls a little better above 3000 rpm and still maintains the low end.

@rich: I believe you, that the 2030 runs great in a 350. But I have a 305. And, as TBIWorks and boogie already pointed out, I fear it could be a little too much for my 305.

@boogie & TBIWorks:

You made things a lot clearer to me, thanks. So the Competition Cams stick is definitely out and the Crane 2030 is out, too. And "no", I don't want some serious mods on _this car, it's my daily driver. For serious mods, there is a project car in the works.
One thing still confusing me is that both of you say, that the 2020 has more duration and lift than the stock cam. Maybe I am misinformed, but the numbers I have for the stock cams says other.
Please take a look at this:

https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/mods3.shtml

There is one cam that applies to the 1992 305 at the bottom of the page and it has

duration @ .050 Int/Exh. 202/207 LSA 114.5 Lift Int/Exh .413/.428

So far, this cam has more duration and lift than the 2020. Or is the cam above not the "peanut" cam???

Another thing is the LSA of 111. I am not sure if this isn't a bit too narrow. It would be great if anyone here had this cam already installed and could say something about vacuum at idle and idle itself.
Except for the LSA perhaps, the 2020 should be my choice.

So I can assume, that the 2020 will work with the stock chip, right?

TBIWorks: Did your 2030 run with the stock chip?

Thank you,

Andreas

 

I don't have a 2030, I have a Melling CCS40 roller cam, which is too much for a 305. It is very compatible with the computer because it has a 117 LSA, but it has too much duration, so I lost ALL low end torque. You want something with a grind similar to the 2020, except with 114-117 LSA if you are going to keep your stock chip and L03 engine.

As for the GM stock cam specs, those are all Tuned Port cams listed. The peanut cam is way worse. The L03 cam is the same specs as the 87 305 auto cam listed on that page. 179:194, 350/384. That is the "peanut cam". However, I'm not sure if the GM part number is the same on the two or not, because I can't imagine the stock TBI cars having 109 LSA seeing as how they are Air Speed Density injection systems and the 87 TPI cars were Mass Air flow systems.

Hope this helps.

 

I have the Crane 2031 cam which is a step up form the 2030. @ .05 the dur is 208/214 with lift of .438/.45?

My mods are in the sig.. and let me tell you, the cam is AWESOME. She pulls and she pulls hard! This is a daily driver and she idles at 450-500 in gear. Stock gears, I'm getting 21-23 mpg running 93 octane.

 

You don't quite have a stock L03 motor though, so naturally a slightly hotter cam will do you more good than someone without a rebuilt engine. Also, do you have an auto, or a stick? The manuals have 3.08 gears and less of a problem getting out of the hole with a hotter cam because you don't have a torque converter. The stock stall on an automatic TBI car is 1650! These cars also came with 2.73 gears. The peanut cam makes a lot of lowend power, therefore, it makes up for the lack of gearing, and it's powerband is off ide, so the peanut stall converter isn't a problem either. To run the cam you have 2031 in an automatic car, You'd need 3.42 gears, and a 2000-2400 stall for best perfomance as well as lower range power. I have a similar cam to that, and when I had my 2.73's and stock stall, it was weak until 4000rpm's then it came alive up to 6800, but by then, I was losing the races already. You have to match you components to get results on the street. I'm sure it pulls hard, and I'd love to ride in it with those mods you have, but I don't want this other guy to make the same mistake I did be putting a 350 RV cam in my stock auto L03 and actually losing power on the street. On the highway it was awesome, but I'm not planning on running in the Silver State Classic, I want to win from stoplight to stoplight.

 

However, if he is modding the car out heavily, and plans on rebuilding and getting better heads, gears, etc. Then something otter than the 2020's gring would be ideal. But I'm looking at it from a stock L03 perspective. You have to be a little more conservative when you mod the L03 to get it to run well all a round.

 

TBIWorks,

I agree with 100%!!! But, and this is my personal feel on it, the 2031 cam is a great fit for what he has now and even in the future. If you go by matching components, which of course is the best way to get the most VE out of an enigine, the 2031 is for RPM ranges 1600-5800. With the stock converter, it's a match. The only thing that would really help this cam, when used as a daily driver, in his case, would be an AFPR.

Compared to the mods I have, mine starts to drop off at 4500 rpm due to the fact I'm still running the stock exhaust and other things. But it pulls like the devil from a dead stop upto 4500. He already has an aftermarket exhaust and cat (I think) along with the ultimate TBI mods (which I have yet to do).

If you compared it, his engine should breathe better then mine does right now.

Like I said TBIWorks, this is how I was looking at it. And again, you are 100% right about matching parts!!!!

Later,
Mike

 

Absolutely.As I said, I have the 2030, but it's very mild.I see no reason he couldn't run the 2031 with a 305 and an AFPR.The 2030 is a very conservative cam profile.The computer is happy.
Idle is mild and although the power curve is shifted up a little over stock, it's not a "big" cam unless you compare it to the stock "peanut" cam,which is a frigging discrace IMO.
-Rich-

 

Blackbird,

Just for comparison purposes, I am running a CompCams
XM264HR-12. That's a 212/218d @.050 with .488"/495" lift
and 112d LSA. I have since added 1.6 rockers to the intake side making that a .520"lift. I am using TFS 23d heads. Vacuum is between 16-17" Hg. This is in an 84 Xfire Vette with 3.07 gears.
Plenty of torque. 380lbft @ 3800rpm

 

well the cam I have makes mine run like an overhead cam engine. No low end torque(won't spin'em with 3.23/posi). It is 207/214, 410/418 with 1.5's. It pulls to 7 grand all day long, but it is weak until about 4000 rpms. so I was comparing the 2030 to my cam in a 305. My engine must be a freak of nature. Maybe it was misboxed?

 

TBi Works what is your LSA? That is the problem with your loss of torque at the lower end! And as for the choice of a cam Xtreme energy 206/212 , .480/.480 112lsa(I think these are the specs??)
Go for # 3

 

117LSA, and 480 is too much list for stock TBI heads isn't it?

 

So the 2030 is back in the game and perhaps even the 2031.
JC, it drives me crazy that I can't make a decision.

I read in one of NJSpeeder's posts, that he recommends a duration from somewhere in the mid 200 to mid 210 degrees and a lift around .460 as well suitable for the 305 . (This isn't a quote, correct me when I'm wrong with the numbers)

TBIWorks, for what you say (power from 4000to 6800) your melling grind seems to be more suitable for the upper rpm range. Only because your cam numbers sound similar to the 2030 doesn't necessarily mean it behaves similar. Look at these two:

Grind 1 Grind 2

Degrees 204 204
Duration @ 214 214
.050 Int./Exh.

Degrees 260 260
Advertised 270 270
Duration
Int./Exh.

Degree Lobe 116 112
Separation

Open/Close
@.050" Cam Lift (14) 38 (5) 29
Int./Exh. 43 9 44 (10)


Gross Lift .429 .429
Int./Exh. .452 .452

Grind 1 is the 2030, grind 2 is the HR-260-2-12 IG.
Both are Crane hydraulic roller. The second one is for 87 - 99 emissions controlled vehicles without computer (are there any of that years? can hardly imagine).
Except for the LSA they look similar. But when you take a closer look at the numbers when the valves open/close, you can see a difference.
If I hadn't the description I wouldn't dare to choose one of them only by the numbers.
I don't know if this could help you with your low-end torque problem, it is just an example. Maybe you can find an answer to your engine's behaviour by comparing the melling cam's specs to one of these??

@nitroburn: Yes, from what I've seen so far, my engine seems to be relatively well prepped for a hotter cam.
How smooth is your idle?
How high can you rev your engine?
Where is your peak torque/power?
Where is your cruise rpm?
Do you run your stock chip?
How is your low-end torque?

And yes!, I have a manual trans.

Andreas

 

TBI... the reason why you don't have any low-end torque is due to the fact you don't have enough lift on the valves.

A cam with a lot of duration and not a lot of lift gives you upper end power and higer RPMs

A cam with a lot of lift and not much duration will give you tons of low-end torque but will top out very early in the RPM stages.

Remember, a cam's range is only across a band of 3500-4500 RPMS. Depending on the lift/duration values, depends on where this range will be applied.

TBI...if you were to change to 1.6 rockers, you'll notice more low-end torque with that same cam!

 

Blackbird92

Based on your current mods and driving style i still think the smart choice is the 2020 cam. The 2030 cam with its 116º lobe separation would not be a bad choice and would be stock prom friendly but based on my past experiences its better to undercam than overcam. Its all about the right combination and the 2020 is right for the stock gears and mods you now have. Now if you plan on changing gears and other upgrades later then by all means step up to the 2030.

 

My idle has a very slight lope to it.... very slight! She idles at 450-575 RPMs while in gear. I have taken it up to 5500 RPMS once (free rev) and upto 5000 manys times as a shift point. I haven't had the thing on a dyno yet (not even to a drag stirp). NTChrist has a G-Tech that we're gonna hook up to it and se what happens. I'm still running 2.73 rears and since I drive 75 miles one-way to work each day, I'm cruising along at 2100 RPMs (Auto/700R4/Stock Convert) at 80 or so MPH. There are also times when I'm driving at 42-44 MPH (trany's in 4th, converter is locked) and I'm at 900-1100 RPMs with no problems, no bogs and she's still smooth as glass when accelerating (both easy and hard).

Yes, still a stock chip and to give you an example of the low-end torque..... Full tank of gas, dry road, fresh set of 245/60-15 Goodyear Eagles, 28-30 MPH, flat-straight road, smash the pedal to the floor....bakes the rear tire! (mind you, it's not a posi so only one tire spins).

I'm not saying that this cam is the best. Personally, I love the power-band of the cam and I'm VERY happy with it (it took me three months of research before I finally chose the 2031). The ONLY thing I wish more from the cam is that she would get more lope to it. But, being a roller cam, you have to go a higher on duration to get mean sounding lope than you would a non-roller cam due to the rate-of-lift.

Later,
Mike

 

@boogie: No, I don't have any plans to change my gears. And with over/undercamming, you are absolutely right, I myself tend to be more on the cautios side.
But OTOH the 2030/2031 grinds are still relatively mild cams. For the 2030, Crane says its good on 305s with 2.73 gears. And there is on more point: Either of these Crane cams cost me about €(=Euro) 500.- here. This is approximately $ 550.-.
Imagine I get the 2020 for this price and the next BMW 3xx/5xx passes me on the autobahn the same way they pass me now with the peanut cam. I would die for sure! I just wanna kill one or two of these ba$tard$ occasionally.
But I still haven't made a decision. I need some more time to investigate.

@nitroburn: This is sounds very impressive to me, man!!
What you're telling me here is verrry tempting. This sounds just like what I am looking for. Still good low-end torque but the ability to rev up to 5000-5500 with a stock chip and good mileage.

Thanks to all of you. I'll think about it for a while, doing some more research. I'm still waiting for a response from comp cams about the #3cam mentioned in my first post.

Any more opinions and suggestions are always appreciated.

I'll keep you posted.

Andreas

 

Nitroburn, please let me know about yout g-tech session. I'm very interested.

O.K. folks now it's 6.00 am and I spend the whole night in front of my screen. I'm going to bed now. Have a nice one overthere in the States.

Andreas

 

Not that this matters much, but I missquoted the exaust lift on my cam ......it is really 426. Also, I am planning on getting 1.6's, but I waiting to get them when I finish my 350. The 305 is out of the picture really, and the cam I have was desinged for a 350 anyway. The 2030 is designed for a 350 too. I agree with you guys on the valve lift thing! One thing to keep in mind here though is that a 350 cam in a 305 will always raise where the engine is supposed to make power with that cam. These cams are all "warmer" cams that the engineers planned for a 350, that is why I suggested the other cam with a tad less duration. I'm by no means an expert either, so I can only offer what experiences I hav had. I have a new issue anyway, read the TBI post and I will post it.

 

@boogie: I'd really like to know about your past cam exerience.
If you would be so kind as to post it, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thank you,

Andreas

 

Andreas....www.paceparts.com. They have the stock LT4 cam for $140 us. Can you get this shipped to your country?

 

I happen to have the 2020 cam in my car with the 305 and T-5 trans, I also added headers, ported, polished and did a good 3-angle valve job on the heads at the same time I changed cam, and I must say it runs really good for a L03, I've taken out my fair share of Mustangs, L98's and BMW's with it even before I swapped in a POSI and 3.73 gears. This cam has a smooth idle and pulls great from 1200 to 5000 RPM. I looked at lots of cams and talked to lots of techs and this cam is what I came up with, they all said any bigger and you risk the computer will not be able to handle it. But this was 5 years ago before I knew anything about being able to burn your own PROMS.

 

One i can think of pertaining to a 305 was a 86 montecarlo ss. The car was basically a stock .030 over 305 with a 212/218 @.050 .447/.454 comp cam, Qjet carb,edelbrock performer,edelbrock tes headers,flowmaster mufflers, TH200R4 and 3.42 gears, It ran awsome in the upper rpm range but lacked that low end seat of the pants feel, It was not fun to drive below 3000 rpm. Swapped the cam for a 206/212@.050 .432/.444 and this made a world of difference in drivability and it still ran consistant 14.90's in the 1/4 on street tires.

The 2020 cam could use some more lift. 1.6 rockers would make it shine.

 

@dm91rs: Thanks for your suggestion. I could get it shipped here. But s + h + import-tax would make it as expensive as ordering it from a local dealer plus having the trouble getting it through german customs.

@DartByU: That sounds good to me, too.
How is your mileage compared to the stock cam?
Did you install stronger valve springs and which ones?
If I chose the 2020 I plan to install either the Z28 springs or the Crane #99848-16.
You have it installed for five years now. Did you have any reliability/durability problems?

@boogie: I see what you mean. But an 86 monte should have been a non-roller setup, right? And thus responding different to cam of that duration than a roller setup.
The 206/212 cam sounds familiar to me (Comp?). It's not that far away from the 2030/2031 Crane.
And "no", I just installed my 1.52 Comp magnum roller tipped rockers two weeks ago. I'm very pleased with them. They seem to give me a "stronger" idle. The engine feels stronger from off-idle to mid-range. I'm not willing to swap them for 1.6s right now.

A.

 

blackbird92,

Yes the monte was a flat tappet cam but this is an example of what i have been posting. By the way, a hydraulic roller will in most cases act like a hydraulic flat tappet with 4 more degrees of intake duration @.050.

Good luck on your cam choice!

 

Before there was PowerMax there was CompuCam.

CompuCam 2030 = Powermax 2030.

CompuCam = computer friendly cam

Hope that steers you in the right direction.

P.S. us V6 guys have found the 2030 not to be enough... we've since started turning our heads toward Crower... The stage 2 cam is computer friendly, not to mention the Crower grind is excellant.

 

I think (based on my own past experience ) that with a manual transmission the possibility of overcaming with any of the cams mentioned so far is greatly diminished. Before some one flames me (I know, that never happens here) let me explain. In the first place none of these cams mentioned are radical. Blackbird92 is not driving a RV towing a trailer, he's driving a F body on the autobahn. If the 2031 will work in Nitroburn's car with a automatic trans,(idle in gear, pull hard with stock gears, work fine with computer) it sure as heck will idle fine with no load (clutch in), and you can launch at what ever rpm you choose with a manual tranny.

I'm guessing that the idle mixture is going to run alittle richer with the 2030 or the 2031. It does with my LT1 cam. I am going to install a vacume referenced AFPR to help with tuning.

I vote for the 2031 and a vacume AFPR.

 

Thank you Joker!!!!!!!! You hit the nail right on the head! And you're right on the fuel as well. These cams do like more fuel being dump in. Right now, I'm still running the stock FPR, but when she's cold and still in open-loop (it'll run rich during this period), the thottle responce is so much better. (Plus it does say on CraneCam's website that this came requires an AFPR). If Blackbird puts on an AFPR, he'll be loving the cam more than I do.


Now, if I can only find that V-AFPR part number that GM has....

Later,
Mike

 

I have the G-Tech sitting in my hand right now. It's a little dusty, but say the word, and we'll have a number for your car.
Maybe I'll actually use it on my car, too!

EDIT: I've just realized that the instruction booklet might be gone. Mike, if you can find out how to use it, or somebody here can give me a quick refresher on how to use the G-Tech, that would be great. Thnx.

 

PN 17113186

 

Mike, why don't you do the AFPR-mod the yourself? See:

https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/tbi-afpr.shtml

If you want to do the ultimate tbi-mods anyway its just a little more work..and fun.
See what the Pablo writes about the price of an AFPR for TBI ($65) and what it actually is: "nothing more than the factory unit with a large adjusting screw!".

And Mike, if I did understand correctly what Joker was referring to when he said "rich at idle" it was, that you should already have a richer idle due to slightly reduced vacuum at idle. (correct me, when I'm worng)
Check it with WinAldl.
When I finished my heads, intake and headers 1 1/2 week ago, I hooked up my notebook. After two hours of driving under different conditions I looked at the log and saw that the engine was already running richer most of the time, only with headers and reworked heads and intake, compared to the BLM #s with stock exhaust, heads and intake from an older log.
BLM was between 119 and 125 most of the time.
Sounds somewhat strange to me.
The only one explanation I have right now is: By the installation of headers and the slightly better flowing heads and intake, cylinder scavenging has improved and the enginge has become more efficient (better V/E). Thus allowing more air entering the cylinder. More air means more fuel. The ecm injects more fuel to maintain correct A/F-ratio based on stock VE numbers. AFAIK VE is stored in the prom tables and is determined by intake pressure in kpa and rpm. If VE has changed (has become better) the value in the table is "false" (too rich, I assume). Thus leading to richer mixture due to the fact, that the ecm relies on the "false" VE numbers. Does this make sense?

OTOH being slightly on the richer side right now, the engine should not tend to run lean when I get a new cam in, especially at WOT. That's a good starting point I assume.

Does anybody know the safe max lift I can have with the stock heads?
It would be fine to know, because the #3 cam of my first post could be an alternative to the 2031. Look at the lift #s.

Later,

Andreas

 

Andreas...I like the 3rd cam also but hesitated to say because I don't know the stock lift limit either.

 

I'm putting Crane 104224 .452/.465 214/220 in my 350 TBI, I also have a JET Stg. 2 chip so will this be alright w/ the computer or will it throw a fit... I'm also most likely swapping in reworked L98 heads at the same time and SD TPI in the near future but I wanted to get the cam & heads on now


Thanks,

-Timbo-

 

FRom what I understand, the stock valve limit is not a factor...only the springs themselves seeing we have a small intake valve (1.84 I think). It's when you go to large diameter vavles is when we have to worry due to the fact the we have smaller bores.

I was gonna make the mods to my FPR but then I got thinking I'd rather have the vacuum AFPR. Since the TBI's lean out on the high side, with the V-AFPR you don't hacve to go so rich on the low end to compensate (sp?) on the high-end and WOT.

DM91RS.... thanks for the P/N!!!! You the man! :hail:


NTChrist... who makes the G-Tech and I'll jump on their web site and get the directions, rookie! Glad to hear you go the alt. all taken care of. Did you mount it last night? Also, who's this week looks ot get together swapping out my door?

Later all...

Mike

 

Nitro it's just your day I guess...www.gtechpro.com


And as far as valve lift I was refering to retainer to valve quide seal clearance. The valve itself should be no prob


Later Darrell

Oh yeah.....it's 77 degrees outside and if you don't beleive me just look LOL

 

In my case, I am having a very rich idle even after warm up. It really isn't causing much of a problem other then smelling gasy at idle. I believe that because of the lose of vacume due to the LT1 cam, the computer is thinking that the motor is under a load and compensating by adding more fuel. My idle is the only place that I'm running very rich according to Win aldl. Cant turn the fuel pressure way down to fix Idle with out screwing everything else up. So, vacume AFPR will lean out my idle and add more fuel pressure as throtle opens and vacume drops. I guess I'll have to use my stock spring instead of the stiff one that comes with the kit or I'll have to much pressure. Some one had some springs that were in between the stock spring and the kit spring for tension. Does any one remember who that was?

 

Joker I beleive that was Lonsal that had the springs

 

Thanks again, :hail: Darrell!!!

As far as b eing 77* out...well....you suck on that one. It's only 39 here in New England!!!

 

LOL

Sorry I could not help it...Actually my wife is watching the weather channel and just told me its 80 deg.

Later

Darrell

 

I'm really begining not to like you! j/k!!!