Ok, here's the deal......

The starter relay makes this weird noise when i try to start it, and it won't start, the engine doesn't turn over......

Then it will start, and if you don't get it started the first time it turns over, the starter relay will just continue to make that damn noise for about 15-20 minutes, till it allows it to turn over once more for another try.......

Now i replaced the starter relay, and it makes the same damn noise and the problem is still there.......what gives.......

Thanks in advance

 

Can you describe the noise a little better than "that damn noise"? Is it a clicking, rattle, whine, buzz?

 

Is sorta like a "bbbsssssstttt"

Like when you rub two wires together, sorta like that crackle......

 

ttt.

Any ideas.........

 

Low92,

If that "bbbsssssstttt" sound is fairly loud, you may have a Bendix (starter pinion overrunning clutch) that is slipping, or the pinion isn't engaging fully. Pinion alignment is controlled by shims, and can be a problem is the starter has loosened somehow. A failing solenoid or engagement mechanism (fork or pivot pin) can cause poor pinion gear engagement. A stripped pinion or flywheel gear can do the same thing.

 

That's the noise comming from the Starter Relay when i try to start it, not the engine bay, or could it still be the same problem.........

 

Do you mean the starter relay behind the kick panel trim (in the interior)?

 

Yes, sorry for any confusion...

 

I'd suggest testing the voltage to the relay operating coil. Either the voltage is dropping, you have a failing coil, or the load of the soleoid is dropping circuit voltage below the holding level of the relay coil (poor supply connection somewhere).

 

I'm sorry, I'm a moron when it comes to wiring and basically anything that has to do with engines....

What coil could be the problem and where do i find it??

Also where do i check to see if there is a poor supply connnection??

I know, they are probally stupid questions, but i'm oblivious when it comes to this stuff....

Thanks in advance

 

So what did you have to say in the 2500 post you have? I know post count dont mean anything but come on now

 

lol yeah when i started here Post #1 I didnt even know if i had TPI or TBI...

now im on my fourth motor buildup and have even got experience with a blower.

and i dont have anywhere NEAR 2500 posts!

 

Anyway, hopefully we can back on topic here, but i learned quite a bit from this website.......I replaced my vacuum lines, radiator, installed a air cleaner, installed a 4th Gen console with 3rd Gen radio pod, 4th gen seats, and also learned ALOT about my car......

Most of those post's are from commenting on the Appearance & Detailing forum which doesn't require much knowledge of stuff.....

Anyway Vader, I'm still confused, or if anyone else knows it would be helpful....

 

92,

First, you're going to need a voltmeter. If you don't have one, you can beg, borrow, or buy a reasonable model for around $30. It will be indispensable for working on your car.

Once the meter is in hand, remove teh left kick panel trim in the driver's footwell. The relay is behind and above the panel. It may be visible without removing the panel, but for taking out a couple of screws you'll have a lot more space to work. Plug in the meter probes on the operating coil leads (I don't know what color wires), and crank the starter while observing the voltage. There should be battery voltage, or about 12.6 V. If the voltage is present and steady, but the relay buzzes, remove and open teh relay. Inspect the contacts. If there are signs of pitting, replace the relay, then try starting again.

 

On the relay (or most any relay for that matter), there are at minimum the following connections:
1. System power wire.
2. Signal power wire.
3. Power out wire.
4. Usually a ground. (sometimes they can get a ground through the mounting screws)

The system power wire has 12 volts coming into the relay.
When the signal wire gets 12V (when ign key is turned to start), it sends power to a coil of wire that acts like an electromagnet inside the relay.
When the coil is powered, the magnatism pulls a set on contacts together.
When the contacts touch, power from the "system power wire" now flows to the "power out" wire and down to the starter.

If there's a bad connection somewhere within the system power or signal power circuit, the relay will work normally for a split second, then the system/signal voltage drops. (The coil inside the relay needs a certian amount of voltage to generate enough magnatism to make the contacts touch.) When the system voltage drops the relay kicks-out. When the relay kicks out, system voltage rises again cause the load is removed. The coil then re-energizes again and the cycle starts all over again. It all happens real fast and makes a chattering/buzzing sound.

Find and check the system power wire while trying to operate the relay.

Find and check the signal wire while trying to operate the relay.

Look for the voltage dropping significantly.

If you know the normal resistance thru the coil, you could check it with an ohm meter to tell if its shorted internally.

 

OK, here is the deal......

When the car starts the green wire gets full voltage along with the LARGE yellow wire.....

When the starter relay makes the "buzzing" noise the green wire gets about HALF voltage.

So what's causing this??


OH yeah, it seems to start more often when the car is in PARK, when it is in neutral the starter relay will "BUZZ" more often??.

 

I wish I had a body wiring diagram for a '92. It soulds like either teh neutral safety switch is not providing a good connection, or the VATS module/system is not allowing adequate current flow in the relay operating coil circuit. You could remove teh console trim and jumper the switch to eliminate that possibility. I'm not sure which ECM terminals to jumper to bypass the VATS wiring.

 

Do you by chance know where i could find the neutral safety switch and VATS module to do a visual inspection of them to see if anything is wrong??

 

Unless they moved it through the years, the park/neutral switch is on the shifter down in the center console (if you have an auto) When ine went bad it melted the plastic housing on one of the contacts so it acted like it was in gear whenever I tried to start it.

 

What about the VATS?

 

Not sure where the VATs module is, I don't have one and never messed with one.

 

UPDATE:

Anyway i tested the voltage on the neutral safety switch........

When the starter relay buzzes and doesn't recieve enough voltage the neutral switch(GREEN WIRE), doesn't have ANY voltage, BUT when the car starts fine the voltage is fine???.

Also the car will start fine sometimes and sometimes it will take forever and buzz??....

 

ttt...

The car is stranded, and it's a daily driver....

 

Sorry abt your car still being down. It's a drag, I know.
My car doesn't have the starter relay, so I can't compare them.
Your going to need a wiring diagram to figure this one out.
I checked my Haynes manual. It doesn't show the starting circuit (crappy a$$ Haynes manuals!)
You'll have to know where the power to the starting relay comes from and follow the system back to where voltage doesn't drop when attempting to start.

Under the dash, there are wires running up into the steering column. Might wanna disconnect any connectors for those wires and look for burned/dirty connections. Ya might get lucky and find something there.

After reading your last post, it sounds like the neutral safety switch is downstream from the start relay. If so, it's most likely is not responsible for the starting issues.
To rule it out completely. Disconnect the two wires on the neutral safety switch and connect them together. If car still dosen't start, it's not the problem. Be sure to reconnect the safety switch after testing!

 

I was looking for the ignition switch harness, where the heck is that thing, I looked for like 20 minutes and couldn't find it........

 

OK, I found it....

ttt......any one know the voltage that Should be comming from the neutral safety switch???

Or where the VATS wires are, so i can check them for voltage??

 

LOL, why do i feel like i'm talking to myself, oh well, in case anyone wants to know in the future.....

I checked the voltage from the yellow wire leaving the ignition switch and guess what??.....The voltage is dangerously low.....

So i'm guessing it went downhill and i need a new ignition switch.....

Oh well, am i right in my assumption?