I'm getting ready to do a cam swap into my 85 Z28 with and LG4 (carbed 305) and I was wondering what all I have to take out to get the cam in there. I know all the accessories and brackets will have to go, but will the radiator have to be taken out as well? I've seen this topic posted before, but I couldn't find it.

Also, If I go with a used cam do I need to use moly lube on the lobes and lifters, or just regular assembly oil/lube, and does the used cam need broke in again? I would think not, but wasn't sure.

Thanks,
-Kyle

 

Well it's been my experience that you have a 2 in 5 chance of success using a new cam and lifters without new cam bearrings.
Used cam? Mismatched/used lifters? Hrmm I wouldn't do it unless I planned on a full rebuild soon.
Yes you will have to loose the radiator or you will have to partially remove the engine so the angle of inclination will allow the cam to clear the core support. The cam is as long as the block and it has to go in perfectly straight. Yes assembly lube is needed and you'd be well advised to use as much as you can possibly pack in there.
Also you will need to take off the intake and valve covers to get the lifters out.

 

I never thought about new cam bearings, but that makes sense. What about getting a used cam with all the lifters organized? I saw one on ebay with 9k miles, but I got an offer today for a brand new edelbrock performer cam. I was looking more for 214/224 duration, but do you think 204/214 will do fine? I want a slight lope (to impress the friends) and good midrange power.

 

I just did mine this spring and you don't have to partially remove the engine. Take out the radiator and loosen a couple braces in the nose and it will come straight out. You also need to loosen the oilpan enought to get the timing chain cover off and back on. I wouldn't advise a used cam, just asking for problems. Also the 2 in 5 chance on cam bearings, that's news to me. If you are careful not to beat them up removing and installing the cam then it should be fine. Remember the cam only turns half the speed of the crank and it is a pretty even load on the bearings. Not like the rod bearings or crank bearings. Also don't forget to take off the manual fuel pump if you have one and pull out the pushrod. I didn't at first and it was a pain in the ****.

 

I don't think the lower duration is going to give you much lope. It will probably idle smooth and give you more bottom end than midrange.
You were on the money for a lopey idle and better midrange with the 214/224 @.050 That is about as far as you can go without major vaccum loss. Mid power range would be best around 2,500-4,000 rpm.

How much were you looking to spend on the cam & lifters?
I am sitting here looking at a new cam from PAW 222/222 duration @ .050, .447 lift int&exh., 114 degree lobe centers for $44.95 Lifters are $40-$65 for a new set.

Now that isn't exactly the best grind just the cheapest I know of new. Crower makes a cam with the 214/224 durration @ .050 and is a better grind lifters included runs about $130

Keeping the lifters matched to the lobes is the most important but inconsistant lifter bores can mean inconsistant wear sometimes. It is not impossible to go used but it is also not reccomended. I have seen cam swaps done with the engine still in the car work out fine. I have also seen em start dropping cylinders and fill the oil with glitter within a week or less.

Just be prepared to break it down if it goes bad. If you really can't afford to have to rebuild the whole engine then do not go used. You are still taking a little risk with the re use of the old cam bearings but at least if they turn to glitter you can shut it down and save your new cam n lifters for after the complete rebuild

 

rjmcgee
yeah I was trying to be sarcastic about that
As for my 2 in 5 chance well I have done it about 10 times and had 2 fail. but I have seen many people fail on their first attempt usually from bumping a bearring out of line or scratchin it from lack of lube.

 

I see what you were saying now.

There is no way to replace the cam bearings with the engine in the car right?

 

I have a summit 204/214 cam in my 350 and it ran great when the engine was stock and even better with my new edelbrock carb and intake. makes pently of torque.

 

You can do cam bearings with the engine in the car but it ain't anywhere near easy and requires tools that I have never seen in a non machinst tool box.
This page is fairly descriptive of the process.
http://www.members.shaw.ca/ritc1/bearingtool.html
That guy took it pretty lightly but be it known that bearring allignment, cleanliness, sizing, and keeping free from nicks or scratches is critical

 

I'm in the process of putting the 4th cam in my stock L98 with the motor in the car. So yes, it can be done ... and it can be done without problems.

Tim

 

Take the extra effort to loosen/remove some oil pan bolts to remove that timing cover....even if you have to remove starter and oil filter.....well worth it to not have a leak there!!

 

Alright, I guess I'm going with a new cam. I was looking at the Summit one, but I heard from somebody that the name brand ones were better (specifically the Edelbrock grinds that are identical to the Summit ones). I always thought they were the same grinds, but do they have different lobe profiles? I already bought a cam swap gasket set from Summit to do this and plan on replacing all the gaskets and seals while I'm in there. TRAXION, have any tips on a sucessful cam swap other than what's been stated already? Thanks...

 

Tip 1.
The 204 cam is a good one. You will probably be happier with the 214. Summit cam & lifter kit 79.95. I think the Edelbrock grinds do have a different profile, so if you have an extra 30 or 40 bucks, buy the name brand.

Tip 2. replace the springs and valve seals while you are in there. The rope trick or compressed air both work, but it is easier if the manifolds are off the motor, and that leads us to tip #3.

Tip 2.5 install a new timing chain and gear set, double roller is the cats ***, but a stcok replacement unit will give satisfactory service.

Tip 3. get a set of shorty headers and matching y-pipe. Flowtechs work ($200), Edelbrock works ($340) SLP ($500) Borla ($1000) etc...

Tip 4. Since the exhaust crossover is out of the way if you followed tip 3, drop the oil pan, and install a new rear main seal. If you feel adventurous, pull a main and connecting rod cap and check out the bearings for abnormal wear. (the last part shouldn't be attempted without adult supervision )

Tip 5. Don't pet a dog that is on fire.

Tip 6. Forget about degree-ing the cam in, put the timing cain and gears on dot to dot, turn the crank one revolution, and you are at #1 tdc compression, stuff the distributor....

Check my sig, on a good day it runs 14.80's.

Have fun and enjoy your car!

 

LMAO... there's gotta be a story behind that one... I just finished wathing the Blue Collar Comedy Tour (great movie BTW) and it reminded me the horse with a broken leg and a gunshot wound...

Anyways, back to the topic at hand.

1. I'll probably go with the 214/224 summit cam since the 305 will only be in the car another few months until it gets pulled for the 406 (the motor's going to my brother after this and he's going to rebuild it when he gets his camaro)
2. I'm getting new Z28 springs and I have a set of valve seals laying around for it that should fit (we'll see, might have to make a run to the parts store)
2.5. I'll probably use a dbl roller chain for it, but I'll use the cheap ones since it won't see much use
3. Already got headers, Hooker 2460's w/ true duals, makes just about everything easier w/o the stock crap
4. I didn't think about it, but I probably should do that while I'm in there, I'm not going to worry about checking the bearings though
5. I'll try to remember that one....
6. Not worrying about that either, it's just a slightly modified 305, I'm leaving that for the 406

I'm hoping with that cam, true duals, open element cleaner, holley 650 vs carb and HEI dizzy I'll be able to knock down 14.6's or so. Heck I'll be happy when I'm out of the 15's... Thanks for the tips, I appreciate it.

 

I just pulled the cam out of my car today. This is the 3rd time I pulled a cam from my STOCK L98 with the motor in the car. In fact - the motor has never been out of the car.

My four biggest recommendations ...

1) Keep everything CLEAN. C-L-E-A-N. C-L-E-A-N!!. The cleaner you keep everything the better off you will be. This is the #1 biggest mistake people make. You have to take your time in order to keep everything clean so be prepared to take your time. Use a shop vac to vacuum off the intake manifold before you actually pull it off. Lay rags in the lifter valley while you are scraping gasket material. Plug up holes with shop towels or tape over the holes to ensure no debris (no matter how small) gets down in there. A small speck of hard material can fubar a bearing. Keep everything clean.

2) For cars with 1-piece oil pan gaskets .... drop the oil pan to get the front cover off. This will allow you to get a good seal on the timing cover again. I can't tell you how many people have decided NOT to do this and then ended up with a huge oil leak at the timing cover. The easiest thing to do is to remove all the oil pan bolts except for the back two and the front two. Loosen the back two so that they only have a couple threads engaged. Then slowly loosen the front 2 to drop the pan down. You'll be able to rest the pan against the engine crossmember even though it has all the oil still in there. After removing the front cover make sure to put shop towels everywhere around the front of the pan so that nothing gets in there. Read #1 above again.

3) Bag and label everything in the valvetrain. With roller cam motors you can reuse the lifters. Put everything back where it came. Lifters go back into the same hole. The same with pushrods, rockers, and nuts.

4) Pull the cam out SLOWLY! Don't force it. I take a break at every cam bearing journal to ensure I am as patient with the next four lobes. Make sure you have cleared everything out in front of the cam ... this obviously includes the fans, the radiator, and the condensor. But, it also includes moving the X-Brace and the IRS sensor on those cars that have them. Oh yea - TAKE YOUR TIME. I had to say that again This is the most important step out of everything! You don't want to scrape a cam bearing. If you take your time then you won't. My advice is to find a long bolt (~6-8 inches long) that fits into one of the front cam bolt holes. This may mean taking a cam sprocket bolt to your local hardware store and finding a bolt. If you need to do that then do it! This bolt will be your handle. You DO NOT need one of those fancy handles you buy. I've always used a long bolt. As you begin to pull the cam the cam's journals are going to slide free of the cam bearings in the block. Now you will be in a place where the cam lobes want to scrape the bearings. You'll want to use this long handle to torque the back end of the cam up while pulling forward. If it doesn't slide freely forward then stop - take a breather - try again. DO NOT FORCE IT. It will slide freely and easily if it is in the right place. Play around until it finds the right position and then bring it forward. You may have to do this for EACH cam lobe as the cam is coming out.

Keep all this in mind when putting a cam back in

Here's today's pics. The guy in the picture is my co-worker who knows nothing about cars but really wants to learn. He's got a WRX. Not many WRX owners can say they helped to swap a cam on an 11 sec IROC-Z Camaro - lol.

http://www.celligent.com/tim/iroc/LEFIPCam/disassembly/

Tim

 

TRAXION

What do you have up your sleeve these days? I have noticed that you are selling off alot of the parts designed for the blower setup. Just curious what direction you are gonna go with the car.

 

No way your going to change the cam bearings in car, not going to happen unless you remove the front of the car and decide to pull the tranny to pop the last bearing out. Trax has it all in his summary except a few details. You do need to remove the radiator (given) and condenser and a couple hood latch bolts so you get the extra inch needed to pull the cam without causing bearing damage.

As far as the cam, get a new one, new lifters too. Melling MTC-1 is perfect for a 305 or stock 350 similar lift to some of the mentioned cams above and is avalible at any parts store. Add a $15 cheap double roller timing chain (yea I know not true roller) to it and some gaskets and be done thje correct way.

I though I was the only one who vacumed thier antifreeze, Good to know I aint the only one who ets funny looks for having a shop vac hanging out of the engine compartment. Also use it to clean up old gasket material.

 

I am doing what I posted at the end of this post ...
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=189777

Basically, I knew that I wouldn't have enough money for a vortech head unit for a long time. So, I sold my custom SC parts and am using that money to maximize my Naturally Aspirated performance. Looking to have the best all-around vehicle that runs 11's ... along with cornering and braking great.

Tim

 

FWIW - I've never had to remove any hood latch bolts. The only extra for me were the X-Brace in front of the radiator and the front IRS sensor (only on 90-92's).

Tim

 

tim, didn't mean to hack up this quote, but some excellent advice in there.

it never occurred to me to try a shop vac. i actually use one of those small suction guns, and it works well for me.

might just have to go buy a shop vac next payday

 

Just wanted to add my 2.5 cents.
I have done several swaps in both of my 3rd gens,Third one going in my T/A and have never changed a cam bearing except for on a rebuild,nor have I ever seen one go bad.
Not that they don't,but they are not common.
And never have I pulled the engine or the x brace,If you have a second set of hands they can pull down on the X braces giving you just enough clearance - unless your enging mounts are worn and sagging the you may need to jack up engine slightly.
Well gonna get back to putting my new solid roller in.

 

Must be an early model thing then. I had one inch still in the engine. The extra few bolts on the hood latch gave me the extra clearance.




SSC

 

One of the bolts directly in front of the latch assembly. .

True on the hood latch bolts,but only on my 87,not my 82.
There is a top to bottom front header support directly in front of the x-brace.

 

This is a good thread we should try and get one good info started with all the right info, no short cuts, so it will get a sticky.