Hey.. My friend's friend has an engine for sale.. It's a 350, bored 0.030 over, out of a 72 camaro.. 10:1 pistons, stock heads (with three angle valve job), new valves.. an RV cam (but i'll change that).. And i think the stock intake manifold..

It was professionally built by Baker Automotive in Florida.. It's never been started, and has been in his garage for ~4 years...

He wants 1000$ for it.. My friends seem to think this is a steal, since this gets me a (very close to) working engine...

But is there any problem with it having sit for a long time? After i grease up the bearings, should it be okay? Or do i need to put new o-rings on it and such? As long as I can turn the crank, should it be okay?

I'm not sure if you could even begin to estimate it, but if anyone could take a guess as to the power it would be putting out, either/both now, and after i swap in a better cam, that'd be nice.

Thanks!
-Tesla

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91 T/A 305 tpi SD
STB, Airfoil, Hooker cat-back, pseudo-cold air to K&N, Accel coil, !cat, !smog pump.
The Wankel Rotary Engine - The replacement for displacement.

 

My uncle and I just this summer bought a 454 Tonawonda engine out of an RV with an RV cam to go in my uncle's 88 1 ton 4X4. The engine had less than 20,000 miles on it and had been sitting up for 3 years under plastic in a garage, and had been oiled. No water had gotten in the engine, and we dropped it in the truck with no problem. 6,000 miles later (not very much, but hey, it was this summer) it's still running strong with no problems.

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DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!

 

If the engine has never been fired, it probably has no oil and still has that "lube goo" which most places uses when they rebuild an engine. It can sit in an engine quite awhile and cause no problems. A friend of mine had an engine rebuilt and it sat for 3 years (in a heated garage mind you) and it started just fine.

Make sure you prime the oil pump first though. There is a tool you can get at any automotive dealer that goest into the distributor shaft and is turned by a drill. This ensures oil is already sent to all the vital parts when you first start it. DO NOT START THE ENGINE WITHOUT PRIMING IT FIRST. Also, I prefer straight 30W oil during the break-in. Old habit. But use regular oil, no synthetic.

When you first start the engine, you will need to break the cam in. This is done by revving the engine between 1,500-2,000 rpm for about 20 minutes. At that point, turn off the engine and change the oil and filter again. This is to drain the bulk of the "lube goo" that the rebuilder most likely used. Then you can drive it to using normal break-in procedures (no rapid acceleration nor constant rpms). Just take it easy for 500 miles ensuring the revs are constantly changing between 1,500 - 2,500 rpm. Again, I recommend straight 30W.

After that, you can put your favorite oil and run it for another 3,000 miles (though some guys still like to change the oil again after a short time, to ensure all the "lube goo" is gone). Do not consider using synthetic oil until at least 3,000 miles. I prefer to wait 5,000 - 10,000 miles before I start to use synthetic oil, just to ensure the rings are properly seated.

I'm a bit over cautious, but I have found a good break-in is the key to a long lasting motor.

 

Not to sound like a moron, but since it was brought up-

Isn't that some scary sh--? To bring a newly rebuilt motor up to 1500 rpm? I guess the idea is that the clearances in the motor were so closely monitored that nothing can break?

Hell I don't rev my motor up to 1500 rpm after just starting it, and it's well broken in. Just curious!


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards

 

TomP, I think that is why you use the pre-oiler, as opposed to you starting your car after all the oil has drained to the pan. When you first start a rebuilt engine, and use the tool to spin the oil pump to pre-oil the engine, that would make sure everything is already oiled.

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H.D. Tripp-89FormulaWS6 w/5.0L TPI, Street & Performance Chip

 

Not actually TomP. The reason for bringing the rpms to 1500-2000 rpms only applys really to a flat tappet hydraulic cam'ed engines. Roller cam'ed engines don't need this proceedure, but doing it will not hurt anything. The reason behind this is because at lower rpms the valve springs are appling more load to the valvetrain and the hydraulic flat tappet cam's "soft" surface and is being "grinded" away (called flat-lobing). What you want is to apply that load from the springs in a more uniform fashion throughout the face of the lobe of the cam (and mating lifter face), therefore by spinning the cam to 1500-2000 rpms a certain spot of the cam doesn't feel the load as constant as it does on lower rpms. Example: Have you ever used a drill at low speeds and high speeds? When you use low speeds with a drill, you can penetrate the surface much quicker, the hole is made in less time. Using higher speeds with a drill, you are spinning the bit to fast to cut into the material, hence you get a dull bit and a polished intent where there should be a hole.

The bearings clearances are set (if done properly) before start up, but still need to "seat" against the journal surface for better oil control (PSI). Like Glenn said, do not accelarate the engine harshly (use WOT), this would shock the parts. Mainly the rings, which would see a rapid increase in load and possibly fail due to breakage because they have not "seated" against the bore. But if you keep it "constant" (semi-steady rpms), the rings will not be damaged.

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George P. Lara
1994 Z28 LT1 T56
1984 Z28 High Output
Member: SCCA, SCFB, SC3GFB

 

A few things nobody mentioned:

1) The dipstick will be on the driver's side of the engine. Unless you use headers, that may cause you some fun getting the tube past the exhaust manifold.

2) This is a two-piece rear main crank, which will require a different flexplate/flywheel than your '91 has.

3) The center two intake bolts will be at a different angle on these '70's head than they are on your '91 TPI. It can be worked around, but be aware of it before you start trying to put things together.

4) Unless specifically addressed when rebuilt, the '72 heads will have "soft" valves and seats. Not the best for our present-age unleaded gas, even with a three angle valve job.

Those engines put out about 300 gross HP with that compression ratio. That's about 250-ish net, as engines have been rated since. The cam will be a limiter, but you've already said you plan on changing that. The heads are the other restriction - good ol' World S/R Torquers would help a bunch, would have 1.94/1.50 or 2.02/1.60 hardened valves & seats, and can be had with the '87-later intake bolt pattern/angle.

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82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car. Rescued w/86 LG4/TH700R with all harnesses, sensors, ECM, etc. 2.73 open. Cat-back from '91 GTA, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (LB9 w/ZZ3 cam, exhaust, paint, etc.).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. Currently 396 .030 over, Weiand Action+, Edelbrock 1901 Q-Jet, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" headers, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & shift kit, 3.08 10-bolt, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Best 15.1 @ 5800' Bandimere. Daily driver while Camaro was being put together.

 

Thanks for the input everyone!

Actually, it's not going in my t/a... I've got this crazy vision about dropping it in a 2nd gen rx7.. It's been sort of a dream of mine, and now that I had an accident in the t/a, it's become very realistic..

I'd put headers on it and all that.. I'm getting just the engine, and hey...may as well mack it out while it's on a stand!

So... item's #1, #2, and #3 from five7kid's post shouldn't apply.. whew...

As for #4....I'm going back and forth between putting the Torquers on them.... On one hand, i'm cheap, and it's pretty much done now... On the other....it's OUT! Ah well... I have a few months to decide..

mm...must..spend...money..on..engine!

On a side note, what exactly *IS* a three angle valve job, and why is it good?


Thanks again!
-Tesla


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91 T/A 305 tpi SD
STB, Airfoil, Hooker cat-back, pseudo-cold air to K&N, Accel coil, !cat, !smog pump.
The Wankel Rotary Engine - The replacement for displacement.

 

A "normal" valve grind has the valve and seat meet at what is about a 45 degree angle to the valve motion. In a three angle job, that angle is maintained at the middle of the sealing area on both the valve and the seat, with a steeper angle on the inside and shallower angle on the outside. This provides for a smoother transition area around the valve and seat, and therefore better flow into the cylinder.

You can run the soft valves/seats on unleaded; gas additives are available to take over the lubrication job of the now missing lead. But, the Torquers would probably flow better anyway.

Also, $1000 sounds a bit steep unless some really good stuff is in that shortblock.

 

Um, I think 1000 sounds high for that engine. If it had a good set of heads maybe, but not with stock heads. It also probally only cast pistons in it.

 

į

um donīt know if you post here since it is such an old post



but you are from the rx7 forum arenīt you



haha I found you