Interesting problem. I know my engine is pinging like mad. My knock sensor wasn't picking any of it up. I've gone from a 305 to a 355. I put in a 350 knock sensor.
Since my laptop wasn't picking up the knock I decided to hammer on the block to see if the KS would pick that up. As I was hammering nothing was showing up on the counts. As soon as I shut the car off all the "knocks" from the hammer showed up. Anyone have any idea why they're not showing up when it happens? Could my ESC be bad? One time I got a DTC for the ESC but haven't had it in about 6 weeks.

Help?

 

Are you getting data at 160 baud or 8192?

 

Supposed to be 8192.
Ecm 165 with AKM aldl cable

 

So you're eventually getting knock counts reported to the data stream. Is the timing retarding when you are inducing the knock input? You'd almost have to monitor that with a timing light since thw ECM apparently isn't downloading data in a timely manner.

It'a also possiblle that the ECM is picking up mechanical noise (like knocks) when the engine is spinning down to 0 RPM.

 

Since the ECM and laptop are not showing any retard whatsoever I'll do what you suggest and watch with a timing light while hammering. Gonna have to wait a little while. I just re-set the valve lash while it was running. Hot manifolds.

I thought the knock counts could've been spin-down noise but quickly disregarded that being the case due to the fact that I've never had more than 1 knock count. When I was banging I had 13.

Vader, are you leaning away from the ESC?

 

Knocking on the side of the block with the EST connected and watching timing with a light showed me the following:

NO timing retard whatsoever

My KS is new and tests out at 99Kohms.

What gives? This car is grounded from flight until I can get this issue resolved.
Any more ideas with this new info?

 

TTT

 

Here's an off-the-wall thought: some scan tools show weird results on some engines/ECMs. Ask me how I know. It's not all that unusual to have certain fields simply not register correctly. I've seen Diacom (what I have access to) draw a blank on MAT sensor temp, spark advance, desired idle speed, A/C request and several others on various engines over the years. Sometimes it jsut reads zero, other times it just sits at one value and won't move until you restart- and then it just sits at a different value.

If you can beg borrow or steal a different model of scan tool, it might be worth a shot. I've gotten to the point I almost have a 6th sense whether it's the scan tool going snoozy-bye or if there's a real ECM/sensor problem.

 

I'm going to try my laptop again.
I'm going to try my dad's laptop.
I'm also going to try a Snap-On scanner. If they all agree that I have no retard when I can hear ping then I'll know for sure there's a problem with the car.

Now for the update. I started checking the ESC wiring. Power read 12.2v (good). Ground had continuity (good). Don't know how to check the retard. The sensor input that comes from the knock sensor didn't give me continuity. Bad wire? If so, then how is it that my ECM did read knock just much too late?
I would think if the wire were truly bad it wouldn't read knock at all.

 

Snake Squisher,

Just a WAG, but it could be as Damon wrote - your data logging equipment is a little strange. It could also be that the ESC generates some signals as it is powered down and the voltage falls off, with the output voltage crossing the signal threshold.

 

Damon's post is the reason I'm trying two other scan tools.

Do you have any idea why I'm not getting continuity on the KS wire to the ESC?
I'm gonna start poking it and see if I can find a break somewhere.

 

Not sure how you are checking continuity on that wire but the KS itself should have about 3900 Ohms resistance to ground at the terminal where the KS wire attaches.

 

To get the '165 ECM to scan at 8192 you are putting it into diagnostic mode (this is the one single most drawback of the '165). This typically adds 6 deg of SA across the board. It is also possible (but have not verified) that in the diagnostic mode knock will be ignored.

To test the knock sensor try this: NO scan tool connected, raise RPM (hold throttle open at TB) to ca. 1400 RPM and then rap on block. If the knock detection circuitry is operational the RPM will dip down as timing is pulled.

HTH's,

RBob.

 

I think I need to go back to engine basics 101. I finally found the problem. After ~7 hours of wire tracing, testing, and help from you guys I found that I had swapped the coolant sensor with the knock sensor connectors. In my defense they look the same.
Thanks for the help.
BTW - I'm now reading knock and retard. I also need a new laptop.

 

Were you so PO'ed you used the laptop to bang on the block?

 

You have teh old style CTS connector (the funnel-shaped one) on your car? What year is it? I though the older CTS connectors were discontinued after 1984-85. ???

 

Yep

Vader, it's an 88. It must've been on the car wrong when I got it. The plastic connector itself was so brittle it fell apart when I disconnected it during engine removal and it was connected to the KS. I even ordered the KS connector to replace what turned out to be the CTS connector. At least they fit.