why does comp cams sell a retofit kit for older non roller lifter blocks? i dont remember everything that it includes but it said something like springs, retainers, pushrods, and hydrolic rollers lifters with vertical bar, and rockers. cant i peice together my own kit with the parts i want and still make it work or is there something special about these parts?

i was thinking of getting the hydrolic roller lifter with the vertical bar(need the vertical bar so they stay straight in the older blocks), comp roller rockers, measure and buy my own pushrods, get the springs i want, and get the retainers i want.

also, as far as the setup goes, do i need to use self aligning rockers? what valve guides and seals should i use? anything else that someone can think of that i left out? by the way, i'm just getting into learning about heads and the valve train so leave any knowledge here that you want.

thanks in advance.

 

what i do know, is that for the price of that retrofit, i can grab a roller block from a junkyard or from some classifieds....

 

OK, go find a roller 400 block. Then figure out how to put enough cam into it without the lifters falling out of that stupid retainer thing to make it worthwhile.

Then go back to 1985, and tell us how what is now called the "retrofit" system wasn't worthwhile for all those prior decades.

Self-aligning rockers (or not) have nothing to do with lifter design; nor do valve guides, or valve seals.

I have always run bronze guides and Teflon seals (since they became available) in both my flat-tappet and roller motors. I have never used self-aligning rockers, always used guide plates.

 

RB83L69 you seem to know your stuff. can i have a crash corse on building a good head as for as vavle train with a stock cast iron head? i want the vavle train to be "roller."

 

What heads are you using, what are your goals for the motor, and what kind of budget do you have?

Self-aligning rockers are needed if your heads have the large holes around the push rods, but no guide plates. If your heads have either the narrow slots that fit tight to the push rods, or guide plates, DO NOT use self-aligners.

Don't try to skimp on valve springs. Roller cams have very fast valve action, and benefit from stronger springs than just the raw lift numbers would seem to require. If the cam you pick is anywhere near the limits of the recommended spring, consider stepping up to the next spring. It's alot cheaper to do it now than it is to deal with the problems (parts breakage) that inadequate springs will cause over the long term.

Beyond that, there's not much else to it. Personally I avoid aluminum rockers for street use, because they tend fail suddenly and unexpectedly after not a whole lot of miles; I prefer the Comp steel ones.I use an adjustable push rod to find the optimum rocker geometry after the whole rest of the motor is built, and then buy the push rods that fit the best; there's no way to predict with certainty what length push rods you might need, once things start getting modified from stock.

 

Who makes a good set of retro-fit rollers for a decent price?

 

Comp, Crane, Lunati, Ultradyne, etc. .... they're all about the same price, kind of $300ish, so I guess it's a decent one

 

I noticed that Competition Products offers a Federal Mogul set for just under $300

 

would these be crap for a street build then??? they were the ones i was going to go with?

http://www.harlandsharp.com/

 

Those are rockers, not lifters. And they're aluminum. I wouldn't run them in my street car. That pic up there is one of my motors.

Roller lifters and roller rockers are not related inside the engine. You could use either one separately or both together. The "retrofit" system in question refers to lifters. http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Ca...DF/274-291.pdf

 

What about the aluminum LT4 rockers? They are a beefed up version of the Crane Gold, and I haven't heard of any LT4 guys complaining of failures.

 

I've never used them so I don't know. But I suspect that they would suffer from the fatigue failure mode, like any other repetitively stressed aluminum part. There's been lots of pics posted here over the years of rockers that broke right where they always do, namely right behind the roller tip - a place of maximum stress and the least metal.

How many miles does the typical LT4 owner put on his car?

How about those reliable LS1 rockers that there's a campaign on right now? People find rollers in their oil pan when changing the oil.

 

or you could turn an older block (400) like I did into a roller block using off the shelf parts 3.1l roller lifters, stock 87-up 305-350 lifter retainers and spiderplate. cam button or like I did offset the factory retainer to the front of the block. also need shorter than stock flat hyd. pushrods (7.5XX" with oil hole!) found on 95? 5.8l f150 fords (ELGIN Industries part # PR-446S) they cost around $30.00, beats the compucam price $150.00 or more not even hardened same length

I guess I really would not recomend doing this but, I had everthing but the push rods so the choice was worth doing for me.

 

88 350 tpi... thank you very much for that post!
I've seen pics of that setup you mentioned but was never able to find out what parts went into it.

 

ya i know those are rockers. im just being random in piecing what i want the heads to work like. so those rockers are crap, because others on these boards said they are good, but ive seen your posts and would more likely trust you experience.

 

I wouldn't (and didn't) say "they're crap", only that I wouldn't trust them over the long term in a street-driven car. Alot of racing parts are like that. They're designed for short blasts of max power, not hundreds of thousands of miles of longevity.

 

Here is an excellent article to help you with details not mentioned yet such as the need for a cam button and a good solid timing cover.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ler/index.html

 

I did the convertion to mine when I first got the 400 sbc, then after a year or so people where telling me that this guy on e-bay was selling plans on how to do it? well it just gets me how people will sell something like that it works for me but, what if you blow up your motor with plans I sold? see my point ? at least I told you not to and didn't try and make a quick buck. pluse its requires grinding to the sides of the lifter retainers till they fit flat on the block.

 

ya sorry for putting words in your mouth, i tend to generalize. so for my limited parental supported budget, what are the best roller rockers for the buck? something that will hold up all through college. i start next year and this will be my daily driver.

would the comp steel roller rockers be the best?

 

88 350 tpi formula,
I saw that ebay ad too, that's what I was referring to... as you've probably guessed.
I checked with SDPC and they stock Fed- Mogul roller lifters for the 3.1 l for $7.95 ea.
There are some composite lifter retainers that I've been noticing that might work fine for a retrofit app. with no mods. All you have to do then is to crazy glue a spider tray into your lifter valley to hold it all together.
Ever checked out the composite lifter retainers? They're a factory item (sorry no part #) I think they might be for LT-1 but they're supposed to work for roller sbc too.

???????

 

im not sure that i would leave it to crazy glue to hold anything together in my block. its not going in unless there is a bolt to hold it down.:nono:

 

You have a PM. I'd like to know the GM part numbers associated with doing such a swap. Thanks for the Elgin push rod part #!!!

 

here is a picture for you guys who have been asking. this shows how the stock 5.7 roller lifter is too tall for a nonroller block. the sholder is almost the same height as the top of a reg. lifter so the retainer would lift up off the block as soon as you got and valve lift at all. the sholder on the 3.1 lifter never reaches the top of the bore.

 

I only drive my car about 1000 miles a year, jest wanted to see what your opinion is for aluminum roller rockers for my 305 in this case.

 

can someone who has done this please layout instructions and/or an illustration of what parts are needed and how to do this????

I am wanting to do the roller setup in my 400 but havent found out how to without spending the money on the retrofit. I also saw the guy on ebay selling the idea. I was considering buying it as pitiful as that sounds. I want to go roller.

can we get a nicely laid out parts list and instructions? PLEASE!!! I am also curious of what kind of hp gains it may give? what do you all think?

THANKS

edit: TPI, I see you are in delavan. I am up there fairly often to visit my parents. you could pm me and maybe I could check out your build. would appreciate any info I can get. thanks

 

Just for general information. I have been running the Harland Sharp aluminum 1.5 roller rockers in my 1989 GTA 350 TPI and have about 35,000 miles on them. So far so good. Dyno Don will be going through my engine and I will have him take a good look at them. Allen

 

350 tpi, you have a PM.

 

I am also looking for these parts. With limited success.
I ordered a 3.1 L roller lifter from SDPC, just to see if it looked like the one shown in the pic, and the part I recieved was the 5.7 lifter. I was bummed !
So the whole operation seems almost self explanatory, but I'd love to get a part # for the 3.1 lifters.
Glad this thread is still alive.
Thanks

 

I recommend the Summit Comp Cams Magnum roller rockers, tough as hell!

Nick

 

I've been searching for the correct 3.1 roller lifters too. What year were the ones you ordered from Scoggin? It would be interesting to know which year they have to come from to narrow the search down a little bit...

Side note: The rest of the parts are coming in pretty easy for my roller retrofit. I got an LT1 spider and lifter plates for $40 shipped off of Ebay. That saved me a few bucks over buying the Crane kit from Summit, part number CCA-08-1000, which includes the spider, lifter plates, and stock roller block style thrust plate.

Now, if all of you would stop bidding against my LT1/LT4/hot cam auctions, maybe I could have one of those too.

 

I wanted to add my .02 cents as far as aluminum rockers go. I was using a set of Mr. Gasket 1.5 that were used out of a circle track motor that where slightly ground on to accomidate large springs. So we all know how much abuse just a few seasons would do. They worked perfectly, other than the fact I had my head up my ***, and didnt run any guide plates. My reasoning at the time was if I keep them tight, they should stay lined up. I took the valve covers off at some point to adjust them, when I notice that half of them had turned slightly and were not sitting on the roller end. They were using the end, or head of the rocker to open the valve instead of the roller tip. The lord only knows how long it was doing that. And those alu. rockers didnt break.......

 

If I was on my way to college and needed a street motor
with good reliability and wanted to get the most bang for my limited buck, I would forget the roller valvetrain
and build a basic flat top piston 350 with good aftermarket cylinder heads and a street flat tappet hyd cam and valve train.

Putting the money you would waste on a expensive retro-roller valvetrain on a stock headed motor won't get you near the performence of a motor with good high performance heads and even a basic generic flat tappet valvetrain.

Look for some of the entry level high perf heads
like Dart iron eagles, Protopline Iron lightning, GM Vortecs, Edelbrock RPMs or Trickflows 23 deg G2.

You'll make way more power with better reliability for about the same money.

Horsepower is in the heads. Put the money there first.

When you leave the competition in the dust you can tell
'em all about your Roller this and Roller that.

 

In hindsight, if I had this whole 3.1 roller lifter process to go through again, I'd choose to give the dude on ebay his $20 and let him supply me with the part #s and sources.
With SDPC, I called them up and asked for a roller lifter for a 3.1, not knowing that they didn't use rollers til 95. I got a roller lifter but it was for a 5.7 ...not the same. And it cost over $20 incl shipping.
I ended up doing an ebay search for lifters and found a guy in Tenn. named Wiley Hutcherson who sells em. I bid on a set of 12, and when I contacted him, he told me that the thing to do is to order 2 sets of 8 for a 2.2L, it's the same part I guess.
I still don't know what the GM part# is but when/if i get these parts I ordered, I'll post if they look right. I sent a check to the guy last fri.
If this doesn't work let's pitch in and order the instructions from the ebay guy.

Later

 

Expensive? Not via Ebay... I plan on less than $300 for a full roller set up. Then I've got 1.94/1.50 undercut stainless valves for the ported 416 casting heads... a P&P converted LT1 intake, recon 350 rods (heavier duty than stock 305 5.7" rods), and plan on spinning it to 6,500 RPM +. Stock flat tappets will destroy themselves...

Nothing is being done to this 305 engine that can't be converted to, or used in a larger block down the line, so no "swap it" comments either. The block will be pulled in due time.