I have an 88 GTA w/ 350 TPI.Sometimes when i go to start my car after its been sitting for a while i get a nice big puff of bluish smoke.After a second or so the puff goes away.I've heard its probally the usual,such as rings or valves.The car runs great.And its not constantly smoking.Its just the big puff at start up or after its been sitting for a while then its fine.My question is,how long do you guys think my car has till the engines shot,as long as im easy on the car.Someone who was an auto mechanic told me that since its not smoking bad it could be just one set of piston rings that are shot.He also said slick 50 might seal up the problem or atleast stop the smoking.Thanks to anyone who can help....Al in NJ

 

Prolong worked for me. Don't ask me how but it did.

 

It is the usual. Valve seals. Change them and it will be gone. That crap ina can harms mroe then it does any good. Do it right the first time, and be done with it.

 

That used to happen all the time with mine. It was valve stem seals. You can change em with a tool that costs less than $20 from Sears. You don't even have to take the heads off, Unless you drop a valve into the cyl.

 

would agree myself valve seals

if it was piston rings I think it would keep smoking and get even worse under heavy load

if it is just when it sits for a while and for a small puff then oil leaking past the seal gets burnt

no biggie but should be fixed


and stay away from oil adatives
BAD JUJU

 

I'll add to that.
It's always the intakes. Oil puddles in the valve spring retainer and then runs down the stem when you shut off the motor. Since there's suction on the intake port, it pulls that oil in.
If you have stock heads, I'm pretty sure umbrella seals are what you need, and some o rings too on the top of the valve stem.
Don't worry, your motor still has lots of life to it.

 

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There are a lot of manuals that explain how to do it. There are a lot of steps, but it's nothing too difficult. It's just difficult to explain.
I got an overhead valve spring compressor at sears for $15, also you'll want an adaptor that connects an air compressor to your spark plug hole. The compressed air holds the valve shut while you're working on it.
Almost everyone in the parts business knows what chevy umbrella/ oring valve stem seals are. if they don't walk out and go to the next shop.
An auto machine shop might be a good place to check too.

 

I am very happy to know the valve seals arent hurting the engine.Now to fix the problem do i have to replace the valves?And if so how hard is it to do.Ive never done this before but id give it a shot.Also,would this be a good time to put on some after market rockers?And do i have to take off the head to do the rockers?I heard i dont have to take off the head to do the valves.

 

And by the way,does the whole valve get replaced or just the seal?.....Thanks...Al

 

Honestly, a manual will tell you way more than I or anyone could. Yes, It would be a good time to replace your rockers. No, you don't replace the valves. You remove the valve covers to do it.
Buy a MANUAL fer gawd sake!
It tells you step by step how to do it, and it's illustrated.

 

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I'd like to be more helpful but when I click on that link, it takes me to their home page and then I'm supposed to register or something...
It doesn't really show me anything.

 

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You could probably get by with doing the intakes alone, and that would stop the smoking.
I think that once I tried not putting any seals on the exhaust and it was OK.
It's a good idea to use the o ring, it fits at the very top of the valve stem under the keeper, and is used in combination with the other seal, which fits over the top if the valve guide.
On the pep boys link, it looks like both the intake and exh are the same, but then they're showing 2 different kinds for each of the part #s and I think that they made a mistake with the photo for those pages. I'm not used to seeing a different part for intake and exh, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.
Unless you're mail ordering or special ordering the parts, get em both, and do the intakes first along with the o rings. and if that works then you can return the exh seals. If your valve cover gaskets aren't reusable, get those too.
Take your time, do it right, and the problem will be fixed.
Buy a manual too, get the one that shows the most pictures and details, because it's not like you can't screw up. Ask a pro if you have to.
Hope this helps.

 

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Don't wanna throw your thread off but here is some good info on valve seals in this post and the whole thread. If anyone knows its 614. v6 v8 same stuff when it come the seals.


https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=215450

 

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The ones in that pic are the "positive" type. Note how they clip themselves onto the guide, and fit tight to the valve stem.

The O-rings are useless. All they do, is to keep the oil that collects in the center of the retainer, from running down the valve stem. They don't seal the guide itself at all.

The "umbrella" type is better, but still far short of the "positive" type. Those ride up and down on the valve stem, and just sort of cover over the top of the guide. They do a better job of controlling the oil that runs down the stem; but the top of the guide is still exposed to the crankcase.

The type I prefer to use is the Teflon positive ones. They require machine work however. But they last more or less forever, they don't dry out and turn to dust like rubber ones eventually all will, and they make an extremely tight seal.

 

Josh, In your pep boys pic there were shown 2 types of seal for each part #. One was a positive seal and the other was an ummrella seal. I've never known them to be used together on the same valve, although frequently the o ring seals are used with either the positive or umbrella seals.
There are some types of positive seals that require machining. That isn't what you want cause you want to do the repair with the heads on the car.
As RB said the positive seals are superior to the umbrella type. But in your case the umbrella seals are sure to fit, and they'll work for the duration of the motors life. I'd use the o ring with those, cause it keeps puddled oil from running from the retainer down the valve stem when you shut off the engine.
Possibly there's a positive seal that will fit over your stock guide, but I'm never sure about that til I try it.

 

FWIW, the exhaust valve stem bosses on stock 083 heads have an angle to them. The intakes are flat. Positives may still clip to the stock bosses on the exhaust side, though I'm not sure of that.

 

Those aren't "umbrella" seals in that pic in addition to the "positive" ones, they're O-rings.

But, those don't go on the valves like that. The correct order of assmembly is to put the valves in the head, put the spring & retainer on, compress the spring, then put the O-ring on the valve stem down inside of the retainer, then put on the keepers. If you put the O-rings on before the retainer, they'll just get pushed down below the retainer, and do absolutely nothing at all except make the car (and valve train) heavier.

 

RB, I'm referring to the pep boys link about the umbrella seals, not the pic that gumby posted.
Fel pro #SS72527 and then it shows an umbrella seal next to a positive one. Both under the same part #.
(scroll back on this thread to about the 14th post)

 

Ah, gotcha.

 

Is everyone good and confused now?
Josh, do you have compressed air?
Cause you'll need it for this.

 

You can stuff rope in the cylinder and then turn the crank till it locks. Compressed air is a nice to have, but not a necessity.

 

that's a neat idea, hope i remember it

 

Title: No more plain rubber

"Just as important as the design of a seal is the material thereof. Ordinary nitrile rubber was used for decades it's cheap, easy to mold, and has sufficient life as long as it doesn't have to endure temperatures of over 200250 degrees F. Wait a minute, where are you going to find such a cool environment inside today's hot running engines? Nowhere, so nitrile is seriously obsolete. Unfortunately, some off-brand manufacturers supply it for late model applications even though it just won't last.

The next step up is polyacrylate (or "P.A.," as they call it in the gasket trade), which can take 350 deg. F. Silicone has the highest temp resistance (480 deg. F.), but it's not very tough. The ultimate is Viton, DuPont's name for a very hightech (and expensive) fluorocarbon material that's practically bulletproof, is impervious to just about any chemical, and can withstand 450 deg. F. for a long, long time. As the previously quoted tech advisor told me, "Almost all late model valve seals are positive and made of Viton, which may be any of several colors. They may have annular grooves on intakes to provide oil control, and sometimes spiral grooves on exhausts to give the guide a metered amount of lubrication."

If you're wondering why all the auto-makers didn't go to Viton years ago, the answer is cost. How much of a difference can there be in the prices of some little rubber parts? A lot. If you assign nitrile a cost factor of one, then polyacrylate would be two, silicone five, and Viton 20! That big a difference made some import makers come up with seals that are more metal than expensive fluorocarbon. About this the gasket engineer said, "The all-Viton type of positive seal common on domestic engines can deflect and expand enough to accommodate an oversize stem. But the kind that's often found on imports with the metal shell and just a small sealing element can't expand as much, so you could get into trouble with an oversize stem."

All those synthetic rubbers look and feel the same, so the only way to be sure of getting the right stuff for the application is to buy O.E. or brand name aftermarket. But there's a further caution: I've heard reports that even O.E. may not be what you expect some Japanese car companies have specified lower quality parts for the replacement market than for the assembly line. While that's not common, it's enough to bias my purchasing decisions toward quality aftermarket brands. Wherever the labor-to-parts ratio is about a million to one, it's downright foolish to use anything but the best.

I'll conclude with a couple of miscellaneous points. One, you may balk at the price of those seals that have the metal valve spring seat and stem seal in combination. But this is no place to scrimp. And, two, always use a plastic installation tip to prevent the keeper grooves from tearing up the new seal. " - Bob Freudenberger ~ http://www.autosite.com

 

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The one on the left is the umbrella, on the right is the positive.
Whether a positive seal will fit depends on how the top of the valve guide looks. I believe that the guides that a positive seal work on are supposed to be squared off on the top.
Suggestion: Remove your valve covers and look through the valve springs and see if you can tell what's on there already, and just get that type. Also, if you're on good terms with an engine machinist in your area ask for his recommendations. He can show you on a set of heads that is disassembled, how things should fit. He'll probably have the parts too.
Good luck

 

When your seals are shot,does it ever cause your car to run rough at all or maybe cause your plugs to foul ?...Thanks...

 

I just got my intake valve seals and exhaust valve seals from pepboys. They had the intakes valve stem seals in but, the exhaust valve stem seals were special order. And the exhaust stem seals look different from the intake stem seals. The exhaust stem seals look like the seals on left of the pic posted by joshwilson3. Those im guessing are the umbrella type and thats why they were special order. The intake valve seals look like the seals in the pic to the right of the umbrella seals and the intake valve seals are blue.Is this normal for both sets to look like a different style???Cause another words both sets look just like that pic,both different lol.

 

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Most of the time they look alike, but that's just what I'm used to seeing.
What you have ought to work, but the guides should be kind of squared off on the top for the positive seals to fit right.

 

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I wish i could tell you guys for sure which parts to get.
I can understand your confusion.
But I'm just some dude online who's on the other side of the continent and doesn't have any idea what the parts that are on your car look like so I can't possibly tell you what parts they should be replaced with.
My suggestion is to find someone in your area, who is compitent, who's willing to help you.
Umbrella seals are the most universally used OEM seal on Chevys. They aren't the best, but a lot of cars came from the factory with them. And they will fit, for certain. The other kind is questionable, cause sometimes the guide needs to be machined.
Use an umbrella seal along with an o ring and if you do it right it will fix the problem.
Or if your guide is machined for a positive seal, use that.
Good luck

 

ok Lets see....All the gaskets i ordered were Fel-Pro.....The valve cover gaskets were #VS50088R......The intake stem seals were #SS72527.....And the exhaust stem seals were #SS72877 which also were special order.....Thanks...Al

 

And also the engine is a stock 350 TPI.

 

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As of saturday i will have the seals intalled hopefully.

 

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Well its finally done.I had the new valve seals installed.It took the guy about 8 or 9 hours to do.He had to take off my alternator and remove my smog or emissions stuff just to get the passenger side valve cover off.Since he had the valve covers off i hit them up with some Blue high temp paint and they came out really good. Im happy the way they look for being centerbolt valve covers.So anyways the cars running great and there is no more smoke at all now.And the guy charged me $120 and i supplied him with all the parts.

 

 

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yup,positive on the intake,and umbrella on the exhaust......And no more smoke at all!!!!!And the guy said the Felpro are very good especially those umbrella rated for high temps.