Deciding on which choice to take:

5.7tpi - auto (auto to manual conversion /w T-56)
or
5.0tpi - manual (t-tops (i know real hard to find), drop in 350TPI)

i'm after a vehicle to last for the next 4 years of college, i dont care if it nickel and dimes me on other parts, as long as its stable!

i'm after gas miliage, over top end performance (ex: 20+)

evenutally i will add some aftermarket additions down the road, cold air intake, subframe connectors, under hood connectors, exhaust, shocks, ect

gear ratio 3.42 or 3.73 ?

i will end up buying one with 100,000+ miles, which is the better route?

also, what are the best possibilites in engines for me? (the crate goodwrench is appealing)

 

If i had a choice i'd go with a 350.

 

Your doing exactly what I did. I needed a car to get me through school, but wanted it to be nice looking, have some pep and get decent mileage on the highway. Right?

Finding the right car is key, preferably one that has LOTS of records on oil changes, tuneups...etc. Get a car taht has been taken care of and you shouldnt have too many problems.

I think you should find an L98 (350) TPI car. Get the options your looking for, and drive it! One of my requirements was that the car was mostly stock(so it was less likely to have been beat on) My car has 148,000 miles on it, bought it 3000 miles ago and love it to death. It runs perfect, starts in the cold, gets 23mpg on highway, and ran a 14.25@95 to boot.

I think I got a good deal, This is what I got for $2500, all I did was have a paint job put on it($900). Save the t56 for later unless you have $$ to burn, which 99% of college students do not. Just dont rush yourself, get EXACTLY what you want, there are many of these cars avaliable. I had to fly from Michigan to NJ to get the exact one I wanted. Then drive it home.

 

i've got 1.5 more years of community college, until i move away for 4years, so i've got that much time to get what i desire

flying far (or driving) to get what i want really is a great idea, and i totally agree with buying stock, so that the car has not been beat. with a 305 it might not have been beat as much also

if i find a 305 /w 5 speed (and t-tops) that would make it way easier to drop in that T-56, and up it to a 350 only problem:
will the 305 TPI system, intake, ect bolt up to the 350 with no problems?

on the other hand, 350s last longer, and would definitely get me through the burden of saving for my new block, and then dropping it in when the time calls for it.

my machanical experience consists of s10 engine, s10 tranny, cavaliar head, and every other part there is, how difficult is it to auto to manual conversion?

thanks

 

A manual to auto conversion isn't too hard, if you're already familiar with the particular manual you're working with. On the other hand, if you don't already know in minute detail what's different, and you don't have a complete parts car or access to a supply of cars to strip parts off of, it could be a nightmare. Above all, it could disable the car for extended periods of time while you locate parts or figure out why something doesn't work right or whatever.

TPI is absolutely identical on a 305 and a 350. The only differences are the chip, the injectors, and the knock sensor. Every other piece - runners, intake, throttle body, fuel pump, ECM, wiring, etc. etc. etc. - is the same.

There is no difference in longevity between a 305 and 350. THey are the same engine, except that the 305 bore is 3.736" diameter where the 350 is 4.000" in diameter.

I think it's one hell of alot easier to go from a 305 to a 350 than it is to swap an auto to a manual. If you really want a stick shift, buy a stick shift car, and go to work on a 350 long block. Changing from a 305 to a 350 almost isn't a swap at all. It can be done in an afternoon.

 

If I am not mistaken, I believe the 350 with 3:73/3:42's and the 20+ mpg will be mutually exclusive events.

 

ok that pretty much makes up my mind now the hard part:

as i said, i'm in it for the reliability, not the overall performance, i can build my own engine, if it was cheaper, and had a great warranty lol....
i'm after something that is relativly $2000 and under, but i will go for $2500 if its really gonna make a difference, keep in mind in the future i am planning on dropping in a t-56 and an aluminum driveshaft, subframe connectors, etc some *simple* very great improvements, ect

what engine do i go with?

 

You have a good plan, Time and patience are what will get you the results your wish for. Even if your Ideal car comes up, but is too expencive and the owner will not negociate to your liking, walk away. I deal with people the same way I do car salesman.

After you buy the car, from what Im understanding your going to drive it for school then do major modifications later, maybe some while in school, correct?

Here is what I gather, your top priorities are a manual transmission and t-tops, power later. You could buy the 305 and swap in the 350 later. The 350 TPI and 305 TPI differ in computer chips, fuel injector sizes and knock sensors, so you need to make a few minor adjsutments when swapping from a 305 to a 350. Changing the motors is not difficult at all.

On the other hand to IMO swapping to a manual from an automatic, while not extremely difficult, is more involved. You not only have to find a new trans, but you need the master cylinder, slave cylinder, pedals, trans crossmember, new shifter misc parts...etc Just lots more involved. Remember that the T-5 that comes behind those 305 wasnt ever put behind a 350 because they didnt think it couls handle the STOCK 350, although there are many case of them holding in modded 350s.

Cars with the t-56 already swapped come around quite a bit, you might be able to get the best of both worlds....350 and a t-56 already done for you!! but be ready to pay a bit more. Theres a price to everything, you have to figure what the exact car is worth to you, reguardless of mods. There has to be major mods to increase the value of the car significantly. A t-56 swapped in would make me feel ok with paying more, but a catback, sfcs, panhard bars, CAIs, and other bolt ons dont really add value, just are nice bonus if they follow your intended path and keep the car in your price range. Ok enough babbling...

 

Well the wife called me away from the computer and lots of posts happened while i was afk

Anyways with that price range I would find a car that has been taken care of the best, dont buy into how fast it is or whats been done to it. More of how it looks and how has it been maintained. Its going to puff blue smoke when it starts reguardless. Get the cleanest car you can find in your price range and worry about what you want to do to it later. You could get v6 car and make it a 10 sec car later in life, if you really wanted to, but dont.

I would if I were you since you want a manual, get a 305 car with a manual trans. I dont know that there is a difference in longevity between a 350 or 305 so nothing is lost there. T-tops sounds to be hard to find with a 305 manual car?? i dont know??

T-tops are nice in the summer but if they leak are a pain. Its give and take. You decide how important they are. I went specifically to a hardtop as not to loose strength.

 

yeah i am a strong believer in going for what i want, i saw a post somewhere that said the 305, manual, t-tops is a slightly rare find, and most would not be willing to give it up =/

when the time comes (a few months) i'll probably spend $2000 to $2500 or so on one, as long as it runs smoothly of course
i'll continue to save and when the engine goes or is in dire need ill drop in that 350, and tranny, obviously it is much easier to do them both as the same time, with $2000 in the engine, and roughly $1500 - $2000 into the tranny that isn't a bad investment at all, and that second overdrive is what im definitely after!

i also have to agree those simplyemods you listed won't improve the value of the car, only its features in that sense, which does appeal to me, to be done on my own, i could even weld my own rods for a fraction of the price, any one got the exact dimensions?

i'm seeing the Crate Goodwrench engine to be my top canadiate, any suggestions on this one?

the 350 is all im really after, i do want some unf out of it, but thats where ill upgrade all the other stuff, i dont know how much more of a kick i really need in the engine, maybe the intake deal, any suggestions on that?

and yeah i'm into this project for a sweet reliable school car, but i'd like it to be somewhat finsihed by that time, i've got 1.5 years (fall 2005) until im outta the free loader home life

 

Yes. Don't buy it, it is garbage. Basically it's designed as a replacement motor for fleets (think of phone company vans... that's its target market). It will probably perform no better than a TPI 305 motor.

It's not any easier to change the trans when doing the engine; I wouldn't worry about it.

Get yourself a 305 5-speed car, and get a GOOD 350, not the cheapest thing you can find that has 350 cubic inches. You strongly tend to get no more than what you pay for in this hobby; even though sometimes you might get less than you're paying for if you're not careful.

 

The reason GM didn't offer the 5 speed with the 350 is that the stock 5 speed won't last. I would suggest you find a 350/auto and change over to a t-56 6 speed when you can afford it.
When looking for a car try to find one with no or very little rust, you can always replace beat on parts but completly eliminating rust is very hard to do.

 

I tore up about 4 T-5s with the L69 that came in my car; and then about 8 or 10 more after I put a 400 in it. Then I learned something I had never even thought of before:

• It's possible to lift my right foot off the floor while shifting!!

I had absolutely no idea I could do this, since I've been driving 4-speeds since .... well, since long before most of the people on this board were even a gleam in their future daddy's eye. But the T-5 will not stand up to that. Since I made this astounding discovery, I haven't torn up another T-5, even though the one I have now has about 50,000 miles on it, with about 30,000 of them behind the 400.

Drive it right, the T-5 will last just fine behind a 350. Speed-shift it, or do those big smoky clutch-dump burnouts, and you can probably tear it up with a 6-cylinder.

 

i'm deciding on going with the 305, manual, as in the long run i want to end up with a new 350, instead of an old worn out one.

the 5-speed is a must for me, more fun, better to drive, and better on fuel, and i don't speed shift, or do stupid burn outs, maybe a few donuts tho

rust isn't a problem for me, i can weld, rivit, bend, curve, sand, prime, paint, and boy do i find that much easier than any mechanical work!

i am after the 350, but i want one that is strong, reliable, and will last me 150,000+ miles with synthetic (or whatever is best) from the beginning, the crate just seemed that it would do, i do want some kick in the engine, but i'm on a $2000-$2500 budget for the motor, which i'll probably end up buying around fall, i'll have the car in 3 months for sure.

i need to research motor options for this car, i don't really want to go with the "advanced auto" 350 for the same price as the crate, and i would simply slap one together my self for that price, but it wouldnt come with a warranty =/

anyone got an handy links to some forums i could check into for engine suggestions, i've searched but have come up short obviously

 

a bit early to plan for this, but i believe its smart

after a few searchers this is what i've come up with

CHEV 350/350HP HI PERF BALANCED TPI ENGINE
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2456170767

CHEV 350/330HP CUSTOMBUILT BALANCED ENGINE http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2456759048

GM GOODWRENCH 5.7 LITER (UNIVERSAL ENGINE)
or
SALLEE CHEVROLET’S PERFORMANCE 285HP, 5.7L (UNIVERSAL ENGINE) UPGRADE
http://www.salleechevrolet.com/Chevy...8s/gen350.html

NEW 350 CID ENGINE CAST IRON HEADS, 1-PIECE REAR SEAL,1987+ INTAKE FACE, TUNE PORT ROLLER CAM
http://www.goautocenter.com/300hp_tpi_1987-89.htm

have been advised away from the crate engine, and i do want this thing to last me well over 100k+ with proper maintence of course, and i think the $2500 range for an engine is a bit of a better market, the lt1 would be great but it would cost double, and be much harder, i am leading towards decent fuel ecconomy, and i don't know how well these engines compare on that aspect, i'd say im shooting for 250HP but more would be better, and i will install headman cat-back before engine, probably headers also

 

Yes, you are mistaken. A fuel injected TPI 350 will easily get 20 mpg with 3.42's. acceleration kills mileage. Cruising withing the torque-band of a motor without lugging it will improve, not hurt mileage.

Now if you're carbed, it can be a different story, and then you could be right...

I'm pleased as punch with my 3.42's mated to my stock LG4. With the 350 making more torque, it'll take less gas to move the car, leading to better mileage.

I'm currently rebuilding a 350 from a 1979 Chevy Van with 4 bolt mains and 041 heads, using a comp HE 252 and 1.6 rockers. I've got about $2000 in the engine doing it myself, and I have Moly rings, Hyp. pistons, roller chain, etc. With the tame cam, it'll work well with my stock convertor and 3.42 gearing, and provide a boat load of torque right where I need it, idle to 5500 rpm.

 

So all things equal, 350's get better gas mileage than 305's because they make better torque??

 

I think it has to do with the cruzing rpm of each motor. Bigger ci motors have more ability to make torque at a lower speed, which results in the engine not having to work as hard to produce the power required to move the vehicle at the low rpm OD trans make the car run.

Example, it takes "X" amount of hp to move a car at 70mph....the 305 will have to spin more rpm to produce the same torque as the 350, typically, to produce the power to move the car.

Thats how I took what he was saying, I could be way off though, 4 bangers minimal ci and get great milage, albiet in light cars

 

Exactally, although I was being more specific towards 305 vs 350 or larger v8's in an F-body.

The bigger engine will make the amount of power needed to move the car faster than a smaller engine.

Example: It takes about 100 ft.lb of torque to move my car when it's not in gear. The nature of an engine is that greater displacement produces greater torque. The larger engine makes that 100 ft.lb faster than a smaller engine, which will make the car move more quickly.

This is because the larger area inside the larger engine houses a larger explosion to create more force on the connecting rod, which in turn applies more torque to the crank, and so it goes all the way to the wheels.

Still confused? To make a nail move into a 2x4, would you rather use an 8oz hammer, or a 20oz hammer? It can be done with an 8oz hammer, but it will take more work to do it.

Of course, there's other variables too, like gearing and such (add a bigger handle to the 8 oz hammer, and it will drive the nail in faster), but for the sake of displacement-only arguments, this is why they say there's no replacement for displacement.

 

I take it you're in high school with aims to be one of the fastest/coolest cars in the parking lot, correct? Well, plans don't always work, and you make it sound a LOT easier than it actually is. A 700r4-to-T56 swap is not very simple, and is pretty costly. You won't benefit from it much, with the obvious exception of manual shifting. Finding a 5 speed 305 and swapping to a 350 would be way easier, but not durable at all. There's a reason GM didn't put the T-5 behind an L98. You seem to have high expectations for a pre-college vehicle. If you are paying for college yourself, I suggest leaving your car stock, so you have money when you need it most.

And if you're after gas mileage, get a civic.


This wasn't intended to be a flame at all. It's just more of my experience of reality. I'm a second-year college student, and I bought my firebird when I was 16. I thought I'd modify the hell out of it, and here I am with simple bolt-ons currently. If you can afford it and you know what you're doing, by all means go for it. But if you just want the car to be more fun to drive, add some fun bolt-ons or a shift kit.

Why does it have to be a manual, anyway? My car is an auto, and I'm fine with it. I took my drivers test with my dad's 5 speed Altima, and then bought an automatic. It really makes no difference to me, but if there's a certain NEED or DESIRE for a manual go for it. People might tell you that you don't have ***** because you drive an auto; put them in their place with a low ET.

 

I should have read the whole thread before commenting... well still, you're young so what I said applies

 

pretaining to the informative you guys have provided, and a few who have adviced against the 260HP gm crate motor i'm narrowing it down to this one:

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...27&prmenbr=361

priced at $2300, a thousand dollars more than the gm crate engine, and rated at 70HP more which will definitely be enough for me, i'll set it up with hooker headers & catback so get close enough to that power.

now in contrast to that decision, will this engine with stock gears on a 91-92 (probably 3.02s or so) give me 20+mpg with a very light foot and a manual?

a few have said the t-5 will handle a 350 as long as you baby it and i will, will this cause any other noticable problems?

i am not sure but i believe with the vortec heads i would need a new intake for my already existing TPI system?

 

i'm 20 years old and i have years of automotive experience, I CAN work on anything, and have quite a few people to assist me that have done cars for 20years

my plan is to buy a car that is stock, and replace all the stuff this summer so that while i'm in college i won't have to touch it, as the problem will be that i won't have any money to fix whatever has broken, cause it'll already done and i wont have to worry about.

i've owned forign vehicles and 1) they are not fun to work on, gm's are a lot more enjoyable and i can tolerate them. i've priced early 90 vechicles and i think its stupid to pay 3-4 grand for a civic with its small 4cylinder that i don't want to worry about fixing all the parts on it, then the engine goes, thats not ideal

i've seen many many late model third gens between 2-3grand, they are built stronger, they are AMERICAN, they have a fair amount of aftermark reliable parts available at really decent prices, which i find to be a MUCH better investment. 3grand for a car, 2grand to upgrade all new aftermarket suspension and exhaust, and 2-3 grand for a replacement engine when the time calls for it, and another 1-2grand for a sweet transmission that is at the extreme bottom of my list, deciding between auto and manual is almost always a personal prefrence as i find them better on gas, a lot more fun to drive, and it makes me pay attention to the road better, instead of day dreaming, as most individuals do...

i am extremely generous with all the information you all have provided throughout this site, it's everything im looking for, and lastly,

f-bodys are just so bada$$ isn't that reason enough?