i finally bypassed VATS. im sure many of you saw my mutliple posts. i lost my ONLY ignition key and was quoted a minimum of 200 dollars because my VIN did NOT contain my VATS info. Many people wish not to discuss VATS because they think they are helping people to steal our cars. when all they are doing is hurting the legitimate people.
see...all i needed was some guidance in bypassing the VATS. i saved 200+ dollars because of a select few that were willing to help me. the only reason i was able to use a potentiometer to figure it out was cuz i received all of the 15 VATS values from a rather helpful individual. i used the potentiometer (available @radioshack for $1.50) and a multimeter ($30) if you dont have one, and hooked them up to eachother, and SLOWLY twisted the resistor to each of the 15 values and hooked it up to the wires leading to the VATS module. i got it on the 2nd try! i can now go to the dealer and get a key cut for $35. i honestly beleive this should be in the tech section and would write an article IF the board sees it fit. I racked my brains for 3 days...and it could have gone on for much longer....VATS is NOT fun or useful when it is in your way. I dont think that we should hurt innocent people with car trouble by not discussin VATS...if you dont want to participate...fine....but to not allow others to help...is just wrong. Please reconcider the banning of VATS talk.
Just my 2 cents, but im sure others have their own.
Thank you for your time,
Rick
Special thanks to z28racer(viper), joel, jza, kevin, vader, and many more.


------------------
Rick
90 Camaro RS 305 TBI
400 small block, Hooker 1 3/4 LTs, Random Tech Cat, Hooker aero chamber cat back on the way!!
TH700-R4 with Trans-Go shift kit (corvette servo here...but not installed yet)
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http://www.geocities.com/esvalenz

Man if my camaro were a rice-rocket all those mods would give me what...easily 50-60 hp!!!

"Just because I've done it, doesn't mean I knew what I was doing!" - Me

 

I posted to this topic in the "Electronics board" also, but I will repost, becuase I think its VERY important to look at both sides of an argument before making any desicions.

I have stayed out of this debate for quite some time, and I feel it is more than time for me to voice my opinion.
Working at a dealership, I see apoximatly one "theft attempt" a week, sometimes two or three PER WEEK. Do you know why its called a "theft attempt"? Because the thief attempted to steal it, but was baffled by the PassKey system, and all the car got was a broken window, and a busted $20 steering column part.

Most of the cars that don't have PassKey, the owner usually doesn't see them again. And since in Georgia, you only have to have liability on your insurance as a minimum(which is what the majority of people have), the people who get there car actually stolen, are left with nothing, since liability only covers damage to others caused by you. So they have no car, and no means to get another.

Granted, no theft deterrent is "invincible", the majority of car thieves don't understand Passkey, and the ones that do, don't have the time to wait four minutes for every failed attempt. So the chances of actually getting your car stolen with a properly functioning Passkey system, is smaller than most people seem to believe.

The problem is, knowledge is power. With the traffic this site recieves, its not only possible that potential thieves are lurking about, its highly probable. And the more of it displayed, the more info into the "wrong hands". Thieves are stupid enough, lets not educate them.


Now before anybody calls me a hypocrite, I do have a tech article on my site about the "basics" of PassKey. BUT, nowhere on there, I do tell how to bypass, list any resistance values, or anything that would really be benificial to a potential thieve. The focus of the article was to restore existing PassKey systems back to fully functional.

We live in a world where you can't trust anybody. I live out in the "sticks" and my closest neighbor is 1/4 mile away, and yet, somebody stole my air compressor from my house. Its just the way people are. I believe so highly in the PassKey theft deterrent, I even retrofitted it inty my '87 Trans Am when I converted to S/D TPI. Even right down to the start inhibit relay. Its fully functional, and from what I see professionaly, I feel alot safer. If you bypass your PassKey system, you are making your car very vunerable to theft.

As for "helping a fella out". This is quite alright, but should be on a one to one email basis only. Even this method isn't totally foolproof, but it still greatly reduces the chances than if "everything you need to know" is publicly displayed.

Thanks for hearing my $.02


------------------
If you live in Southeastern US, check us out!
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[This message has been edited by GMTech (edited February 18, 2001).]

 

Kudos GM Tech. I'm on your side of the fence.

BB, I'm having a tad bit of trouble figuring why you posted this. Was there a problem with the help you received? Not enough of it?
I'm not too sure, but the following links cover some reasons why not all of us bounce in and answer every question, trust me it's nothing personal.:

https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/005101.html

https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/002145.html




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"Only in Britain could it be thought a defect to be “too clever by half.” The probability is that too many people are too stupid by three-quarters."

John Major

 

I couldn't agree more. The last thing I need is some thief well-equipped enough to break into my car with the proper knowledge for stealing it, thereby giving me less time to get to my S&W 4506 and blow a second hole in his a@%!

 

Seems like the VATS discussions are on hold pending a decision from the webmaster on the content of the site.

[This message has been edited by Vader (edited February 18, 2001).]

 

LOL man! Personally, I prefer the Cor-Bon 185 at 1150FPS in the winter, but you gotta go to a stiffer slide spring for those. You using that new performance plus ammo?

I don't know what's the right thing to do in light of the evidence presented by Vader about systems that have been defeated. Never thought about it that way, although VATS is still likely a deterrent to the thieves of lesser intelligence (the dumbest of the dumb). I guess there's just no substitute for parking in well-lighted areas and using some other form of security device such as a 4-prong club like masterlock makes or one of those clutch or brake pedal locks. At least a potential hooligan may become frustrated or take long enough to be seen. Even then, a wrecker can always take her away pretty quickly too.

 

I still can't understand why you couldn't find a single GM dealer that could not find out what your VAT code was for your passkey just by showing them your registration and drivers license. Apparently they either are too lazy to look it up, don't know what they are doing, or want to screw you out more money in LA. Like I had post in your "OK....Girl friend Lost keys.....$250 for a new one.....HELP!!" post, I went to two different local dealers (one Pontiac and one Chevy) in Illinois, showed my registration and license and they each cut a key without me even giving them the original. They sure could have saved you a lot of time and trouble.

 

Vader,

This is a bit off-topic, but seeing as you have already devoted a paragraph to the subject, I figured it may be valid for me to counterpoint what seems to be encouragement to strangers to use a firearm to resolve a problem.

From what I see during daily, normal driving, only a very small percentage of the population has the ability to operate their motor vehicle(s) in a consistently safe manner. Elementary tasks seem to elude most drivers on a regular basis. Little things like shoulder-checking and signalling <u>before</u> you change lanes or attempt a merge. Checking for approaching traffic <u>before</u> entering an intersection(especially when side traffic does not have a traffic signal or stop sign to prevent it from entering the intersection). Failing to come to a complete stop when commanded to do so(or not even bothering to try to stop because you don't see anyone else near the intersection). The list could go on, and on, and on. Most of this stuff is common-dog, or basic driver ed.

Yet, the vast majority(IMHO) of the driving public is incapable of making the appropriate decisions on a consistent basis: to protect their own safety(not to mention mine). Do you really want to encourage this group of citizen's to undertake the decision-making process that should be considered <u>before</u> pointing a loaded firearm at another person? It is my contention they could not do so, while protecting the safety of themselves and those around them.

Some thoughts, regarding what I have learned about owning and operating a firearm in Canada(notwithstanding any new rules in the NFR):

You need a permit to transport a restricted weapon(in this case - handguns). You must proceed directly to and from the destination. If, for instance, your permit states you are taking the firearm to a shooting range and you stop at the 7-11 for a pack of smokes, you could be charged with violating the permit. God knows how you're going to explain why you had the gun on your person(probably concealed), while you were away from your parked vehicle.

After discharging the firearm, you will have to prove that it was your only alternative and that you used only appropriate force. This means if you are in the mall when your alarm beeper goes off, you should contact the Police and stay away from the vehicle, and avoid a confrontation. Going to the vehicle with your firearm gives the CP reason to argue that you were looking for a fight.

Appropriate force means that you met the attack of the assailant with the same amount of force and that you had no other option(i.e., fleeing). If the assailant is unarmed, or has a non-ranged weapon(i.e., a knife or a tire-iron, you cannot use a fire-arm until you can prove the assailant could've caused you harm(i.e., they were close enough) and that you had no other option(i.e., fleeing). Anything else constitutes 'looking for a fight' and you will probably be charged with illegally discharging a firearm(if you miss) or assault causing bodily harm(you didn't miss).

I won't even get into the can of worms you could open by killing your target(i.e., what was your intent?) or if you hit another person or property(several different counts relating to negligence).

When it comes to cars, especially thirdgen's, I respect your advice or opinion deeply. You have a wealth of experience and you share it freely. And I would think long and hard before I ever attempted to contradict something you have said on that subject. However, concerning the use of firearms: I find your comments disturbing, and dangerous considering the impressionable nature of many of the members of this forum.

Hopefully, you will not take too much offence at what I have said(I am after all, scolding you for an opinion you have expressed) and understand I made these comments in an attempt to prevent someone from making a serious mistake.

Andy

------------------
He who hesitates,... is lost!

 

Andy, Remember this is not Canada, we have the right to own handguns.We may joke about our weapons, but we, as americans, have the right to own and use them. Are vaders comments dangerous? I say no. Are guns dangerous? Only in the hands of people unfamillar with them. People teach your kids!

 

Hmm...are you going to Scold me on my opinion that I personally don't care for vegetables? You really have no right to scold someone for an opinion they hold. You can OFFER a dissenting view, but telling them their wrong is putting your opinion above theirs and consequently disregarding their ability to effectively form their own opinions and beliefs.

As a Criminal Justice major, I will in the future be highly in danger by gun-wielding criminals, but still support the right to own a personal firearm.

And joking around and discussing firearms is in no way encouraging the readers of this site to go out and shoot anyone. Not once did I read "Hey you, shoot a person for your thirdgen....."



------------------
See pics @ Billy's Firebird
92 Bird 3.1L Auto
Best $750 I ever spent....
DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!
Kills:
93 Mustang LX (Before Mods)
98 or 99 Dodge Stratus (tough one, edged out at 40)
92 Camaro RS 305 TPI
97+ Honda somethin or another...modded....kept at my door the entire way
Close Calls
94 Grand Am 3.1 V6
92 Cavalier 3.1 V6
01 Porsche 911 Turbo (Had em till first gear)
Mods-Jet Stage 2 Performance Chip, Accel Cap/Rotor, Accel 8.8 MM Wires, Accell Coil, AC Delco Rapidfire Plugs, Dynomax Catback, K&N
AIM name OVRCLCK350

 

87RS,

My comments were directed at Vader because I was under the impression he resided in Canada. If this is not the case, then I apologize for my mistake, but I stand by my opinion as being correct.

People really need to read and understand the <u>entire</u> U.S. Constitution(I have several times) before using the Second Amendment as proof of 'a right to own and use firearms'. Article II(the Second Amendment) of the Amendments to the Constitution is only one line of a very lengthy document. And even then, it is governed by the Constitution regarding what contitutes a well-regulated militia(certainly not the NRA) and who can authorize such a militia(only Congress).

And you need to consider the conditions at the time the Article was proposed(i.e., the United States without a standing army was surrounded by British colonies, and it could be considered that those colonies still harboured hostile feelings and/or intent towards the United States).

Anyways, the point I was trying to make in the original post was: Vader holds a position of influence in this forum, and many(including myself) attach a lot of weight to any facts or opinions he expresses in this forum. Given that: I still believe his comments were inappropriate.

 

88,

I think you completely misunderstood the comments of Vader and myself. Speaking for myself and probably him as well, we were kidding. Sorry if it offended you, but I don't like moral lectures from a man who laid down while his country raped him of his rights. I have been around guns responsibly for my entire life. My father owns guns, his father, his father...we have been involved in no crimes and no one has ever had to shoot anyone. Being the owner of multiple weapons and having carried them for quite some time, I have never brandished one or seriously considered shooting anyone. They are a last resort, a final line of defense against a threat to the life of myself, loved ones, and any other innocent whom I may witness coming into the line of danger. I am an NRA member, an Eagle Scout and above all else, a patriot. My decision making process is as clear as anyone else with a conscience. I must agree with 87 and 350 on this one.

 

Originally posted by Ovrclck350:
Hmm...are you going to Scold me on my opinion that I personally don't care for vegetables?

I will if you intend to use your dislike for plant matter in such a way that it may cause grievious bodily harm or property damage to another party. Especially if that party has no involvement with you or your dislikes.

You really have no right to scold someone for an opinion they hold. You can OFFER a dissenting view, but telling them their wrong is putting your opinion above theirs

So make up my mind here. If I scold someone for their opinion, am I not expressing a dissenting POV? Are you implying I do not have the right to express a dissenting POV? And did I not make clear the high esteem which I reserve for Vader's opinions.

and consequently disregarding their ability to effectively form their own opinions and beliefs.

My expressing an opinion cannot inhibit your ability to form an opinion(only you can do that), but it may influence the way in which you arrive at that opinion. That of course is it's intent.

As a Criminal Justice major, I will in the future be highly in danger by gun-wielding criminals, but still support the right to own a personal firearm.

That comment scares the beejeesus out of me. You are a CJ major and you are making comments like this?

And joking around and discussing firearms is in no way encouraging the readers of this site to go out and shoot anyone. Not once did I read "Hey you, shoot a person for your thirdgen....."

Originally posted by Vader
I also agree with Jethro - security by 1911A. Having been a victim seven times, I would probably not hesitate to pop off a round in the general direction of a would-be thief, depending upon the background of the target. My aim would probably get a lot more accurate if he/she began acting aggressive, but then I'd have a lot of explaining to do. Still, in the heat of the moment, I'd likely get all "Puff Daddy" on them. Incidently, I don't play with the weenie 185 or 230 grain rounds that only get to 750FPS. I prefer and keep loaded the 105 grain 1,400 FPS 45's. They are a little harder on the slide, but if I encounter a bear on a morning walk, I'd rather argue with the ranger than the bear. I guess a potential thief will have to take his chances on whatever I might have in the clip...

Perhaps you need to get your eyeglass prescription checked.

Andy

p.s. Given a choice between losing my car and possible criminal action and/or jail time, I would be inclined to follow the course that best protects my heinie. But if you get a warm feeling at the thought of Bubba 'given ya some real lovin', who am I to tell you you are wrong.

 

First, this has gone from a simple post to something completely different and non-tech. I think some should look back at what they wrote and do some editing.

Second, I think theres also a misconception from our Canadian friend here. But rather than enter into this, I'll just offer this current fact about the US and guns.

32 of the 50 states currently have right to carry laws for anyone who wants to apply for it. This number is on the rise and has been for a while now.

Third, Black Beauty... there was an email sent to the moderators on this subject, and it seems that VATS became a taboo subject. Keep in mind this does not prevent you from asking about it, and hopefully resolving it through email, which it appears you did. I'll have to agree that it will stop quite a few people from stealing your car, so maybe its a good thing we havent handed them the key on a platter.

 

My bad. I'm sorry if I let my temper flare.

Can we go to Baskin Robins now?

 

Jethro,

Thank you for those kind words. As a serving member of my countries' Armed Forces, I too consider myself a patriot. And even though I may disagree with some of the actions of the current government, I respect their right to pass legislation. And I would put my life on the line to protect their right to do so.

I did not lay down and let myself get raped, while the legislation for the National Firearms Registry was passed. In fact, I went considerably out of my way to attend the public hearings held prior to the legislation being passed. And I expressed my dissatisfaction with the proposed legislation. Despite the fact I do not own any firearms, I felt this legislation trampled on rights I thought were guaranteed in Canada's version of "The Bill of Rights". And even though I do not own any firearms, I support those who would own them and use them in a responsible and appropriate manner. And my dissatisfaction with the above mentioned legislation, was among the many reasons I voted against the current government during our most recent election. I thought that is how sane, rational people conducted themselves in a democracy.

BTW, the government of the Province in which I reside mounted a constitutional challenge to the National Firearms Registry. They lost and the Canada Supreme Court affirmed the right of the Government of Canada to pass this legislation. While appeals are pending, the fact that I am a serving member of the Canadian Armed Forces prevents me from getting personally involved in this matter at a judicial level.

 

Holy crap Jethro - madmax is right this isn't tech at all anymore I hope ede or Vader locks it. 88 - your points are valid but I think Vader lives near Chicago and was talking about what he'd do if he came upon someone stealing one of his cars. If you've got the *****, it's often best to shoot first and answer questions later since dead men don't talk...You talked mostly about shooting someone for making a bad traffic maneuver? Even though I'm decidedly anti-PCBS (politically correct BS) verbiage that's what I'd call road rage. I would also like to apologize for the "anti-Canada" talk - none of us fought OR "laid our lives down" none of us had anything to do with old-a$$ wars and strife. Cya man.

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"Among so many conflicting ideas and so many different perpectives, the honest man is confused and distressed and the skeptic becomes wicked...Since one must take sides, one might as well choose the side that is victorious, the side which devastates, loots, and burns. Considering the alternative, it is better to eat than to be eaten."

Napoleon I

 

Too many worms - not enough fish. Where did I put that can?

[This message has been edited by Vader (edited February 18, 2001).]

 

Oops my bad. for some reason I honestly thought Vader lived north of 49.

and no I wasn't referring to road rage. I was using an illustration to explain why i felt someone incapable of operating a motor vehicle safely should not be allowed to operate a firearm. though i have sometimes wondered how i might react to a negative situation if i lived in an enviroment with less restrictive gun laws(see my sig).

anyways, this is enuff for me. I made the point i had intended. and if someone misinterprets or feels offended by my opinion(s), then so be it.

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He who hesitates,... is lost!

 

Lordy boys, sorry about that, but this Tennessee hillbilly is just a little radical when it comes to gun rights. I'm pullin' my dogs out of this hunt. Think I'll go to Baskin Robbins with 87.

 

Damn what did I miss?? I won't toss my two bits in on the gun thing, last thing I need are my licensees yanked, but I do need to point out a mistaken misconception...


I won't go into a lengthy dissertation on this, however, if you read the Federalist Papers in conjunction with the amendments so as to put them in perspective of the founders, you will find that the right to bear arms is a stand alone right, as is the right of each state to keep a well regulated militia.


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"Only in Britain could it be thought a defect to be “too clever by half.” The probability is that too many people are too stupid by three-quarters."

John Major

 

I think i'm the one who brought about the VATs taboo, and i still believe in it.
#1- I don't think recaro TA is lying if he says he's gotten VATs keys cut twice w/o an original. Much more likely that the monkey working the parts counter at your dealer(s) is a moron and didn't want to do the legwork. Still, if you called around, you should have been able to find something.
#2-If you only had one VATs key and you never made a back up then the situation you were in was YOUR FAULT. Please don't advocate making MY car easier to steal cuz YOU were too LAZY to make a spare. And if you didn't have the money to make a spare, no sweat, you should have at least checked the resistance with a multimeter so in case you lost it you wouldn't be up $hit's creek w/o a paddle. IIRC, you did have a spare key cut on a non-VATs blank, you should have taken the extra 15 seconds to check your original VATs value and write it down. Then you wouldn't have been in that situation in the first place.
#3- you got your problem resolved through email with people who trusted/knew you anyway. Yeah it took you a little longer, but thats what you get for not preparing for the loss in the first place. How's that expression...an ounce of prevention...

Sorry, not meant as a flame, really, more as hard love. I'll bet you'll appreciate VATs not being discussed publicly when you come out of a bar at 1:30 and find a broken window and steering column, but the car's still there. VATs has saved many vehicles over the years, and i'd like to see that number stay high. If even ONE thirdgenner loses his baby cuz somebody was too lazy to make a back-up and needed to be spoon fed the solution that would be a disaster that could have been avoided. Hell, that one thirdgenner could be you. I'll bet you'd gladly pay $200 for a key if it meant you weren't advertising how to steal your sole transportation.

 

First of all, the definition of scold is :
scold (skld)
v. scold·ed, scold·ing, scolds.
v. tr.

To reprimand or criticize harshly and usually angrily.


So getting onto someone for an opinion is not simply expressing your point of view.

I didn't say that you scolding someone could inhibit their ability, I said that it's as if you're rejecting their ability. In other words, you don't approve of the way they form them, so you overlook them and tell them how they're going to see things.

Yes I'm a CJ major and I feel this way. If you have a problem with that, then I'm sorry. Just get over it.

And you know what? I must've reread that thing 10 times and I still don't see where he told anyone to go shoot someone....I can see where he said he might, but I'm not a big believer of monkey see monkey do anyways. BTW my last eyeglass exam was 08/18/00 so I think I'm still within limits.

 

Ouch Ed that is HARD love. lol But I do agree that I do not want a petty thief learning how break into my baby. I saw a n ouch of prevetion is worth a cup of cure (or some crap like that ) So get your spare keys made.

I am not even going to get started on the whole gun thing.

But how about we go to Dairy QUeen instead of Baskin Robbins?

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Mike Kenny
Current: 1991 RS 305 TBI
Past: 1990 RS 305 TBI (A woman forgot what red lights are for)
Current: mostly stock - newer 305 w/ 12,000 on it
Eclipse speakers all around w/ 10" tube powered by a Alpine V12 in back
K&N filter w/XStream flow lid - It is sweet!!
Future: 2" Cowl hood

 

Dairy Queen's cool. I'll have a Breeze, Umm, can I get that in Bacardi?

 

well guys it's been a lot of fum reading all your post, and this is soemthing i'd really like to discuss and read about some more. please post all your non tech comments on macgyvers board www.nethirdgen.org thanks

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ICON Motorsports

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