Im pretty sure everyone knows that older blocks have no lifter retainer plate boss in the lifter valley.

What i was thinking is simple, you know how sometimes they install "stand pipes" in the lifter valley to keep oil from draining down onto the cam? well that involves tapping the oil drainback holes.

I was thinking of tapping them, but then using studs that bolt down the Spider Retainer plate in the correct position, so that a roller cam may be used in a non roller block. I assume I would need to use the 3.6 "long lifters" though, am i correct on that one?

 

be a great way to make an internal oil leak. why not use the original roller cam set up, the one befoer gm decided to reinvent the wheel.

 

Problem is you're drilling into the center oil gallery and it's pretty thin cast there. Don't want to block off that oil flow - and the area of the block where the lifters are is also machined different for them. Be nice to figure out a way to use the factory parts though, save big money.

 

NO NO NO you guys are mis understanding me! I dont mean tap the dam camshaft journal where the original boss's are located, I mean the lifter valley DRAIN back holes, heres a pic of "stand pipes" that were installed to this 388 chevy.


See the blue things? Those are installed to the drain back holes, Now imagine if I could Mount the Spider Retainer plate to THAT instead of the stock location. I think it would work! Im going outside to mock it up to my 350 as we speak.

 

Guess it would help If i attached the pic huh?

 

ok lets say you have the spider mounting worked out with no drilling into the lifter gallies. how you going to mount the retiner plate?

 

Kingtalon
Have you checked out any of the threads where guys are retrofitting 3.1L roller lifters into early SBC blocks?

 

This is gettin' interesting!

 

You mean the dog bones? I thought the lifters retained them left to right, and the spider retained them from moving up off the lifters?

Isnt that all there is? And isnt the difference from the 3.1 to the 5.7 Roller lifters length, the 3.1 being longer to clear the top of the lifter bore so the dog-bone will work?

edit: Just went outside and double checked on my roller L03 305 block. All I pulled out was a spider plate, 8 dog bones, and 16 lifters. Am I missing something here?

 

the cam retaining plate on the front of the block. i think anyway it's done isn't right and is a halfassed way around doing it right and spending the money to do it right.

 

Well I would be using an aftermarket roller cam, a timing cover with a cam button and a thrust plate behind the timing chain gear to cover all of that sort of thing.



In a way i think its the same or better than the factory's mounting spot. I mean so you bolt the plate down to raised boss's, or you bolt it down to some studs sticking out of the lifter valley. whats the difference? I think the studs would hold it better. i mean, its not like the plate wears or moves or anything. it just has to stay put, and thats not hard to do...

 

so you'd basically have a standard 'old' style roller set-up, minus the expensive retrofit roller lifters. If you used those breather stands, or the drilled holes and made some custom studs to go in there, split the factory spider down the middle, and made a z-shaped bracket to mount the half-spiders to the studs, I think it would work, if two things:

1. you could get the 3.1L lifters cheap enough

2. the factory 'figure 8's' sat squarely above the lifter bores, so there would be no chance of binding.

so you'd have a bit of extra hardware in the valley--- lock-tight and lockwashers should do fine there; for the more paranoid, use locknuts also.....

the cam button and torrington bearing has worked for all these years, shouldn't be a problem.

I'd say, try it out.....worse case is you are out a busted motor....they make more......

of course, you could buy 'cheaper' mechanical roller lifters and use a solid roller......

 

I'm in the middle of one of these retrofits.
I think it doesn't matter how the spider is held down as long as you don't mess up the oil passage by drilling a hole through it. Be careful in other words.
Those bolts that hold down the spider have to be the least stressed bolts on the entire motor. For me the tricky part is grinding down the tops of the lifter bosses to make a good fit for the doggone dogbones.

Some guys don't like the idea of this retrofit... IMO, What it really comes down to is how much is your time worth ?? If you' re getting paid a good wage at work, then it ain't worth it to burn up your time trying to grind and drill your block to make 3.1L lifters fit in it, it's better to just get a fresh roller block. But if you have some idle time on your hands, and you do it right, I can't see any reason it shouldn't work.
It's the "cheap" way to do a hydraulic roller retrofit

 

It would probably be less work to attach the spider to the heatshield underneath the manifold with spacers.

 

...and we're getting closer to another solution: use revkit with double springs - inner ones for lifters and outer ones for foctory "oculars" Of course there's still some tweaking needed with spring locators, but if someone's hard diy'er...

 

just drive your current nonroller engine until it blows up then buy a roller block and be done with it. the money your spending now you could save for a roller block, i doubt if youll be able to get a set of roller lifters real cheap. see the other way around it is to buy a block with that already done and proven working parts. using breather extensions in place of the proper parts doesnt seem like a good idea.

 

I fail to see how using double springs and a rev kit prevent the roller tappets from spinning. That is why they are notched so they can fit into the retainer plates which get help in place by the retaining spider. Springs apply pressure to keep the tappet seated to the lobe, not prevent it from spinning.

 

I think that what he was saying is, the outer springs would hold the dogbones down.
A spider eliminator...

 

OH ok. Those are some long *** springs then.

 

yeh, I didn't notice the length of springs; Kingtal0n's idea seems clearer than mine, perhaps instead of modifying factory retaining plate it'd be easier to fabricate custom spider held by drilled bolts, or even eight small, single keepers in place of large assembly.

edit: less parts in the lifter valley = less parts laying in the oilpan when something's wrong; go with the retrofit-lifters, they're worth their price

 

First off, I would love to do this, but I've got over $2000 invested in pre-86 bottom end components im not willing to ditch just yet. By that I mean a 2 piece eagle crank, balanced obviouselly to the assembly its attached. Its also all built and ready to go, I really dont have the time to tear it down, buy a new crank, rebuild it into another block and put it back in. this is my daily driver.

 

Well that seems like good advice, except when you think about it REALLY hard. See, have you ever LOOKED at a retro fit roller lifter? by any chance have you SEEN the way they are connected together? People around here find little torrington bearings, little retainer clips, little lifter bracket snap rings, crap like that, in their oil pan, courtesy of THOSE retro fit lifters. to me, some non-moving studs, locknut and locktite seems like a MUCH safer idea (with proven factory style lifters to boot) than these linked-together retro-fit aftermarket lifters with *** knows how much tiny hardware holding them together. I know people finding rollers in the oil pan, flying off the lifter and grounding down the cam. I just dont feel SAFE with a retro fit lifter.