alright guys, I've got roughly 3k, I'm building a 350 with a buddy of mine down the road who's built about 7 or so small blocks.

Here's my plans.

basic machine work on 2pc main 4 bolt block. hone w/ deck plate, bore if needed, deck block to 9 inches, clean up.

after reading david visards book "max performance small blocks on a budget", I'm under the impression that align honing the main bearings is a waste of money. any comments?

Ok so once the blocks all ready to go and we know the overbore size, i plan on ordering a rebuild kit from summit. I'm looking for around a 9.5-10.5 CR. I plan on buying eagle rods and crank off of the ebay stores since they're the same parts from summit, just cheaper. Info on them say they're good to 500 HP, which is perfect.

I want to use world s/r torquer heads, the ones w/ 202 160 valves and 67 cc combustion chambers. I'll buy those too from summit if i can't find them used.

a comp cams xe268 k-kit w/ manley valves and then pushrods, 1.6 ratio rocker arms, studs, guideplates, ect.

I'd like to keep my cc Qjet, if possible. i know from reading around on here i'd need new rods and hangers, and to mess w/ the air valve spring. a rebuild wouldn't hurt.

for an intake i plan on the RPM q-jet. I have hedman headers also i can use. I want to run 3in pipe back to my flowmaster.

I have MSD coil and wires, I'll get a module for the dissy too.

throw in about 500 dollars or so for various little things.

Now, I want to push around 400-450 at the flywheel. I'd like the motor to be able to run 12's N/A after i sort out the tranny and rear end a little later. I'm just really eager to get rid of this 190k mile knocking boat anchor.

I already have spohn sfcs, so the chassis is good for the moment.

if i keep the 700, i'll need some tranny work and different flywheel. if my buddy'll sell me his T5 and manual accessories, we'll rebuild that and use it. higher stall will be needed if auto, higher gears if i go manual.

sorry for the long post. enlighten me with your comments. Ideas, suggestions, send them my way. I'm open to opinions.

thanks for your time,
brandon welbaum

 

I'm not sure if you will have enough for that much horsepower, but it sounds like you have planned a really nice street engine. Good luck!

 

ljnowell, thank you.

I forgot to mention emmissions aren't a concern.

 

What headers are you gonna be using?

Sounds like a pretty nice street motor.

 

i might buy my buddys hedman headers from his camaro if he doesn't try to revamp them for use in his 75 vette he recently bought.

i've seen them myself and they have a "hedman hedders" plaque on one of the primaries but i dunno what style they are. he called them big tube headers? they're not shorties but they aren't as long as the regular hedman LT's. they have roughly 1500 miles on them and look almost brand new.

...on a different note, could i send off the torquers and have them pocket ported and run a bigger cam? say maybe an xe 270 or 274?

thanks,
brandon

 

I'd find some better heads, those are stock replacement which really suck out of the box. You can find much better heads for about the same price. With those heads and that cam you will not make 450 hp, not even close.

 

Your combo sounds pretty good, maybe not much more than 400hp though. Dump those S/Rs and get Vortec heads...flow MUCH better!

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/41598/

That cam sounds like a good bet for the combo. The only other little tricks I would suggest are to run as tight of a quench as possible! Deck the block to zero (9.000) and run a flat-top or small dish piston with as thin as a head gasket as possible. This will help with combustion efficiency via the 'quench effect'.

Another good idea would be to keep that compression just under 10:1...maybe 9.6-9.8.

I don't see why a 9.6:1 350 with vortecs and a xe268 couldn't pull 400+ from the motor.

Oh yea, and about that line boring...that will help out with long-life in a HP motor. It not only assures that the crank is installed straight but also that it is parallel to the cylinder heads, keepin the compression ration equal in all cylinders. have them check the block to see if it NEEDS line bored or honed and do it if they think it does.

 

Why would use Vortec? Alot of people do but i don't get it. They are good flowing heads with a small high velcocity port. But they are not performance heads. The require tons of money and machine work to get anywhere close to working. And even then all you have is modifyied stock heads.

If you want vortecs, go with some Pro Action 906 heads atleast.

 

I kinda want to steer away from the vortecs, i haven't heard very many good things about them, no offense to those of u that do use them.

what about the sportsman II heads? as of david vizards book he tested these on his flowbench and got ~220 CFM intake and ~130 CFM exhaust @28 inches of water stock. He also states fully ported they make 575 HP on "a buget-constrained 383"

are these too peppy for a street motor? I don't want to lose bottom end.

IROC_385Z and ME Leigh, thank you for your comments.

Keep 'em coming,
brandon

 

Those comments are made by those that don't use them.

None taken. But don't be offended when I'm cracking open a can of beer while waiting for you at the finish line.

 

At least with the Vortecs you can afford the beer after the race.

 

I have worked over sportsman IIs on my 385..I'll let you know how it works with a smaller cam. Right now I have a cam close to an XE292 and have NO bottom end. I am about to put something more like a HOT cam in it and I'll let you know then.

 

ya, I figured those sounded like a top end horsepower head. how's it behave on the street?

so, we're up in arms over world products torquers/sportsman 2's versus vortecs. no matter what i go with, i'll probably get them pocket ported.

pros/cons of each style of heads?

the rest of the setup sound decent?

thanks again,
brandon

 

Yea, the sportsmans are more for top-end power BUT are not too bad on the street. They may be a little big for a 350 unless you wind it up. My machinist told me/showed me the biggest con about the sportsmans was that valve-guides are HUGE and should really be narrowed.

I still think that the Vortecs would work best for what you are doing. Numbers don't lie, look at that link I sent you: At the bottom goto heads that are under 180cc and you will see S/Rs and Vortecs. Sure the springs don't run over .480 or whatever but for a street engine that should still let you make power. I think someone already said to get pro-actions...i think that they make a small runner head and I have heard all good about them.

 

Again Vortecs are nice heads but not performance heads. By the time you make them acceptable for performance use you could have bought a nice set of aftermarket heads!

Also the World heads whatever Sportman II's or S/R's they are old technology heads. They have big ports and don't flow very well. THey also have a bad combustion chamber design. I would never use them unless somebody gave them to me or made me.

For the money and purpose there are much better heads.

 

what about the iron eagle dart heads? 64cc combustion chamber, 180cc intake runners, 202 160 valves and straight plugs for slightly more, 631$.

anyone had experience w/ these?

i also stumbled upon pro topline "pro lightning" heads. same figures as above but doesn't mention valve sizes, 575$.

pace performance has its phase two cast iron bow tie heads, same perks as the darts above, a nickel under 300$each.

I need to keep head prices around 600 bucks or so.

thanks,
brandon

 

Those are good heads, so are the Pro's. Do you realize that those are bare head prices though?

 

good point, yes i did. i had mentioned using a k-kit earlier in my first post.

of course i could get the assembled, x the k-kit and just get a cam/lifter combo and save some assembly time.

only thing i'm worried about is matching the valvetrain. with a k-kit i have more peace of mind knowing someone already matched the parts and didn't install generic parts to get the heads out the door a little quicker.

anyone using the pro lightning or iron eagle dart heads?

brandon

 

oh, what about tuning my cc qjet for the bigger airflow and cubic inch demands? any potential problems?

its late, i'm off to bed, i'll check this in the morning.

brandon

 

Thats a good point it is much smarter to use a cam kit because the parts are designed to work with that cam.

I will be using some Pro Iron Lightnings on my new engine. I hear they are awesome heads, some of the best for the money.

 

If you want to run the darts or pro lightnig heads order them bare and give them a little smoothing over with a grinder. Either way don't get a bigger intake runner than 180cc's with that cam. If you don't want to port them or are willing to pay for it, then get the AFR 180's and bolt them on. If I were you, I think I would get the votecs, disassemble them, give the exhaust port some work / have them machined for screw in studs and larger springs, reasemble them with the appropriate hardware and bolt them on. I can't say for sure on the align hone vs align bore. I have read here from a reputable source that if the main bores are off enough that it would require a hone, it would be wise to just bore it. I think his reasoning was the location of the crank in the block if there was core shift. But I have also been told by a machinist buddy of mine ( that I've been good freinds with for over 10 years, nearly all of which he has been a machinest for the same company, smart guy ) that they take such a small amount off that it never matters, and they do the machine work for a lot of the real fast guys at the local drag strip and tractor pulls around here. Either way have it checked by a reputable machine shop and let them make the call.

 

Heres something close to your combo that I read in one of my old CHP magazines:

350
9:4:1 compression
SDPC vortec heads
Performer RPM intake
Holley 750 double pumper
XE268 cam w/ 1.6 rr's
hedman 1 5/8 headers
borla mufflers

409hp and 427 tq

Sounds like a pretty good combo to me and you can get the SDPC vortec kit with the modified heads, RPM intake, gaskets, bolts, etc. for under $1000. Good Luck.

 

Yeah but thats with a perfect dyno tune and some magazine performance adders and tricks.

 

SDPC

whats that stand for?

 

SDPC = Scoggin Dickey Parts Center

http://www.sdpc2000.com/

 

... i knew that...

so here's how it stands so far:

block and machine work~600$
crank and rods~400$
268 k-kit~300$
valves~100$
headers~100$
intake~150$
rockers, guideplates,studs,pushrods~200$
Dart Iron Eagle Heads~650$

add 500$ for all the little extras i didn't include and i get...3k

reasonable?

 

look at my combo, 13.10 at 105 with a bad tune on an edelbrock, just wait for the holley and my automatic and i will be mid 12's. You can do whatever you want but i run cirlcles aroudn my buddy with a 327 same cam and me and a set of Dart iron eagle 180's... by the way thanks everyone for helping me with getting my car to the point it is, couldn't have done it without you...

 

89formula#1

Your running a XE274 with Z28 springs. If so i am impressed you can run that fast without major valve float. How high do you spin the motor?

 

EDIT: it had 1.5 roller rockers not 1.6

 

Only trouble with your combo is you're going to come up short on HP by about 50.

Go with a cylinder head that flows about 250cfm
wether a ported/modded Vortec, tweeked/cleaned up, Iron lightning 180/200cc or a fully ported Sportsman II. forget the S/R's
without a full pro port job and chamber tweek.

You'll need a bigger hyd cam to get to 450hp too.
A comp XE284 will do it.
A comp Magnum 294s solid lifter cam will do it too.
A performer RPM will have more lowmid range a Vic JR more top end. pick one.

GM just cam out with some very interesting new "Bowtie Vortec heads" might want to look into this. These are not truck heads.
Got no flow data for ya yet.
I do like the vortecs.

AS for align boring/ honing. check the main saddle bores diameter for bore size/spec taper and egg shape if it passes this test install just the crank with the right size main bearings and a lil oil and spin it. If it will spin freely you are good to go.
Do not hone the bock till you have the new pistons in hand.

To make the CC qjet work with this type of motor will take ever modification known to man. Ditch it for a 750cfm holley, demon or edelbrock carb. You'd have to completely revamp the smog Qjets fuel curve and the computer will not like the lower manifold vacuum at idle and cruise.

 

haha, i was afraid of that.

say i use the holley and a regular non cc dissy, can i just unhook the computer so i can still use the speedo and 4th gear lockup?

 

... i'll be using the stock 10 bolt until i can afford something better. looks like i'm also keeping the 700 too, i want to go manuel valve body.

anybody see any problems w/ me breaking every moving part known to man behind this new engine?

since i still have my huge 215's i think if i don't abuse it at low speeds that it should hold for a couple months or so?

my engine building buddy said i might want a driveshaft loop?

 

SDPC says these springs are good to about a .530 lift and im not even close to that. I have spun the motor up to 6000rpm and it doesn't float, it actually pulls really hard all the way up I just don't want to spin it that much so I have a 6000rpm rev-limiter in it. People talk alot of shlt on these heads but there always the ones that have a stock car or a really expensive combination of the wrong parts to go slow and waste alot of gas...

 

UPDATE:

if all goes well I'll be going over to my neighbors house sunday to clean up the block and get it ready for the machine work.

brandon

 

I wouldn't overlook the Pro Action heads. My combo seems to be a real good street friendly moter. I am carburator illiterate and this thing will idle around in traffic on a 90* day and never foul a plug or anything bad. No good numbers for it yet but I am sure that the 12's won't be too hard to attain with it. If you go with this type of head and cam combination I would suggest getting the appropiate rear gear ratio. I have had 2.73's, 3.42's, 3.73's, and now 4.10's and it really helps get into the power band quick.

 

4.10's, whats your cruising RPM's?

 

About 2200 rpm at 65 mph.

 

...on like a 28.5" tire though...right?

 

we took my dads old 87 v6 to the junk yard about 9 months ago. I wonder if its still there, cuz it had 3.42s in it. I wanted to swap rear ends before we sent it off but i didn't have enough time...

 

245/50/16 tires. about 26" tall

This T5 has a .63 overdrive. I chose 4.10's because I would cross the line at about 107 mph in 4th turning 6000 rpms. It should be close on power to get there and if by some miracle I run out of gear before the line I can always run a taller tire at the track. Plus when I had 3.42's in it the cruising rpm was lower than the moter wanted to run at.

 

Wow, I never knew that T5 has such a hi 5th gear.

 

Not all of them do, and I'm not sure which ones got them.

 

Not real sure what you are talking about-cut the bottom of the valve spring retainers for seal clearance=free+ 15 minutes with a grinder, select the correct spring that fits in the stock pocket=price of spring-you have to buy springs anyway, pin the rocker studs=$2.00 plus a few drill bits, so for $500 a pair plus $100 max and a couple of hours you have a superior head for what you are trying to accomplish. Yes vortecs ARE a performance head-try a set and you will find out. The shape of the combustion chamber and the intake ports are the best out there-especially for a 350 street motor. If you are on a budget go to the junkyard and buy a longblock out of a 96 or newer truck-the last one I bought was $600-a cheap and easy way to end up with 400+ hp b/c it has a hyd roller factory setup and the vortec heads already. Rebuild it and throw in a HOT cam or something a little bigger and hang on.

 

Thats what I'm talking about.

 

well guys, maybe he's right, i mean i only went 13.10 with mine and with a good tune and the holley it will only go liek mid 12's i guess maybe one day i will buy "performance" heads and go fast but for now i will go with my slow 12's...