Well, with roughly 20,000 miles on the rebuilt motor, I popped a timing chain.

Its my own ****ing fault and I deserve it for cheaping out on a Vatozone "double roller" sub $40 chain.

Anyways, I don't want to go into change it without correcting the weak points in my setup that bug the **** out of me.

Problem is, I really only have about $1500 to spend, MAX.

In a perfect world, that would mean vortec heads, a stealthram, and something like a hotcam.

However, this isn't a perfect world, and you can't bolt a stealthram up to vortec heads. Plus, there isn't any other head even close to their performance for the price.

I really need to replace the heads, first because they have 180k on them with nothing but new springs, seals, and a ghetto valve lap, and two, because its a fair bet I messed up a valve with the timing chain went.

Second, I really need to ditch the TPI setup. It ****ing sucks.

This is currently on a 355 with forged flattops, around 9.8:1 compression with shim headgaskets, and a stout bottom end. Currently it has 1 5/8" headers, and full exhaust with a cutout before the cats, ported plenum and ported SLP runners, 1.6 ratio roller rockers, 2400 stall and 3.73 gears.

Current cam is a production LT4 cam (NOT A HOTCAM)


I understand that at $1500 bucks, I'm gonna have to make a comprimise, and that sucks, but it is what it is. What do you guys suggest?


__________________

 

Its gonna be tough to get a good set of heads, a nice roller cam, and a TPI intake for $1500. So heres what I suggest: Get a set of Edelbrocke Aluminum RPM heads about $1100, Lt4 hot cam about $350(maybe $150 used without lifters), and misc gaskets $100. So your basically at your limit there. Go ahead and get these parts and start saving for the intake. One problem your going to run into is tuning. however with this head./cam setup, a good high flow TPI setup, and a good tune youll easily have over 400hp at the fly wheel.Just my

 

I'd rather go AFRs, Trick FLow 23*, or Pro Lightnings over edlebrock.

And I really don't want to have to stick with a TPI manifold for any legnth of time.

Are there any heads for under $500 bucks that flow decently enough to get 325-375 hp on a stealth ram?

 

why not buy a set of LT1 heads, they usually go for real cheap, have the reverse flow water ports plugged and welded. Buy a LT1 intake from www.lt1intake.com. and buy a stout roller cam.

many a people are running 12's with cammed bolt on LT1s.

its alot of work,but that would probably give you the most bang for your buck,

 

LT1 heads don't work on a Gen I block without modification to the coolant passages.

 

Well, while we are on the topic of really unrealistic ideas, why don't I just build my own heads?

 

Its realistic, and you can do it pretty cheap, but its a big PITA. You can get the heads used for $300 have the coolant passages welded shut for another $200(just a guess) and then get the Lt1 intake on that web sit for like $300, then the cam for another $350, plus misc stuff(gaskets, hoses, whatever) For like $150 or so. Your looking at a decent deal. And Lt1 heads flow almost aswell as vortec(ALMOST). But its a big PITA.Someone on this site did a step by step how-to on it.

 

thats why i said, and i quote "have the reverse flow water ports plugged and welded"

I believe it was TPI383 that did the swap(but i could be wrong) either way, do a search, you should find it. The thread is very long and has tons of pictures. good stuff.

And for the price of the LT1 heads/intake, i think it is the best fuel injected deal going under $1000.

 

No one said anything about the reality of the LT1 heads, or perhaps, lack thereof. Sure, they can be modified to work. For some people, though, the work in does not justify the gains gotten.

As for building your own heads, here is a quick and simple recipe for DIY aluminum heads: Go buy 100000 lbs of aluminum siding. Melt them down to a molten state. Put the liquid into a cardboard box and harden. Poke some holes with a toothpick and cover some areas with duck tape. Pop in the microwave overnight and viola, instant aluminum heads, fit for a box car derby.

Here's a semi-bright idea from myself: By a set of Darts or Pro Toplines or something, some bare castings for like $5-600. Buy a Comp Roller cam and what not. You can reuse the lifters and whatnot if you desire. Between the springs, retainers, locks and what not, that will set you back the rest of the way.

Just a thought. Nothing impossible.

 

whatever.

Here is the thread by tpi_roc detailing the swap.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=178262

It requires 4 pieces of aluminum, cut to size, have those welded up, then have the head surface decked.

Not that complicated. Any machinist with an IQ higher than his shoe size should be able to take care of the machine work easily. And it shouldn't cost you much.

Plenty of power, plenty cheap, which is what he is asking for.

Aftermarket heads + Aftermarket induction + Aftermarket roller cam probably = more than $1500

 

toplne vortecs $460 bare, pbm stainless valves $112 racer price,comp 274xe $175 w lifters,comp 981-16 valve springs 59.99,pc valve seals $21.99,comp 10*retainers 59.99,comp 10*locks 26.99,arp 3/8"studs(ebay)$24.00 incl shipping,comp 1.52:1 roller tip rockers(ebay)$90 incl. shipping,edelbrock rpm airgap vortec manifold(ebay)$180 incl shipping,intake gaskets $26.00,head gaskets avg 60.00,arp standard series head bolts $49.99,arp stainless 12 pt vortec intake bolts $23.99,=$1592.94
ok well thats the way i did it,there are corners that can be cut for sure!but i didnt want to do that,in fact i kind of ran overkil most of the way.point is if you are a careful shopper,you can pull it off and use top notch parts that will last a long time!
btw the pbm valves for the vortec heads will match the valve seats of the topline #906 vortec replacement heads perfectly!lap em if u want.
oh yeah,good advice,priceless!
Eric

 

by the way make sure you didn't hurt a piston or bore!
Eric

 

AFR 180's for now, save money for the stealth ram and cam later. I'm with you and would'nt want to waste money on TPI parts (ie vortec base)

 

I had thought about this route, but...

1. I'm not sure if I want to ditch EFI.

2. I'm not sure how your combo is going to run without a carb, the linkages I'd need, a low pressure fuel pump, and all the others stuff I'd need to get a carb conversion motor running.

 

eh, newsance, i was going to reply over at 3go, but i figured you would already go teh obvious route.


you're using a stealthram, thats a given.. so after bits and pieces for that swap (assuming nothing breaks or comes up) you spend about $650.

that leaves $850 for the heads. you're not a idiot, so you know you cant get any new assembled heads worth a damn for that. nevermind heads and a cam.

if i were you, i would find a nice set of assembled used heads.. Iron eagles, pro topline, or somthing similar. spend the money to get a valvejob done and if you do it yourself, possibly port them.

then spend $50 on a two piece timing chain cover.

3months from now, or whenever you get around to it, swap the cam for somthing decient. you wont have to pull the oil pan,and the stealthram isnt a bitch to take off like TPI. not too hard.

 

btw, before someone mentions my vortecs toward my 850 head combo

they dont work with the stealthram.
he doesnt want a LTR setup so the vortec base is out
and he doesnt want to spend the time buying a LT4 intake, modding it, only to find out that the internet rumor about it fitting the vortec heads is BS and noone has even done it yet.

even if you get vortec heads, the springs suck. and they have to be machined if you want more lift.


and even if you DID find assembled aftermarket heads that cheap, would YOU trust the quality of the components in your motor?

 

Ok, what about this...

1. Stealthram (duh)

2. A decent rebuilt stock casting with 64CC chambers, 2.02 1.60 valves. Something like fuelie or LT-1 castings.

3. A cam to match.

This is the only realistic option I see to getting it all done under the $1500 bucks that I have to spend.

I'm not looking to make incredible power numbers, the car runs just fine for me after the N20 is packed on. My biggest motivation is getting new heads because mine are worn, getting a new intake because TPI sucks.

Or perhaps rebuilding the B2L heads. I have heard that B2L heads really flow like **** before, then others say that they are decent for a stock head. What is reality.

If I wanted to get 350 hp out of a motor, would a stealth-ram, agressive cam, and B2L heads get me there?

Would other stock NON VORTEC castings get me there?

 

realisticly? no.

in la-la-benchracing land? you would just get there.


without good porting, you arnt going to get that from any older stock heads. atleast not any that are cheap enough to save over a aftermarket head.

 

btw, this is just your car getting pissed at you for buying a omni.

 

 

I'd look into the Pro Topline 906 Vortec heads they are much better then stock Vortecs and are setup for performance right out of the box. Supposedly they also fit both intake patterns, atleast thats what they say.

 

I actually never bought it. I found the car just happened to develop rod knock after it was warmed up. Funny how the owner didn't want me to drive it long enough for that to happen.

There are issues with me getting my credit card payment back, which is why I have not said much for legal reasons.

 

Oh yeah they are cheap, around $500 assembled!

 

Just because they are drilled for a standard bolt pattern, they still have the different ports, right?

 

I don't know thats just what the manufactors says, i'd call them and see.

 

Wait nevermind i just checked thier site again and it say Vortec style, so.... Sorry!

You could go with their 083 heads.

Or their Pro Torker heads.

http://www.protopline.com/racingironsbc.htm

Down at the bottom

 

Personally, I don't see:

1) Anything that disqualifies the stock heads - Port 'em, replace valves/guides as required, install good valve springs & seals, run 'em.

2) Any way this is going to all happen for $1500. Modifying/replacing TPI and doing cam and heads is just going to take more money than that.

 

For comparison, what can I expect a set of stock B2L heads to flow?

 

If you have the $1500 to spend right now, why don't you just get the best heads for your application right now? Port your stock tpi stuff, keep the same cam, tune/save money, then buy the stealth ram and while you swapping intakes... swap the cam?

 

side note for all heads that fit vortec AND "standard intakes"

the ports are still taller... so while any 23* intake will bolt on, only the big race intakes cover the ports.. i think they take a 1207 intake gasket..

in anycse, most intakes will not have enough metal around the edges to cover the larger ports... thats why everyone doesnt just drill out new bolt holes on vortec heads.


newsance:
sucks about that omni, but what do you expect when you run that much boost? plus it DID sound a lil shady that he was selling it after swapping motors...


i know you know TPI sucks, but i dont think you can replace it and do the heads/cam at the same time for under 1500.. if you do, you're comprmising somewhere...


you know you need to swap that cam, and you know you need heads rebuilt. you dont NEED to swap intakes now. and the real power from the motor is in the heads... in the long run, i think you're better off right now doing the heads and swapping cams.
used parts are cheaper, but you'll have to start looking for deals.

its not your daily driver, so you may just want to get some cheap castings and a $40 porting kit.. spend a couple hours a day for a week or two to port them out, then get a valve job and run em.

it wont be fast with the TPI still on it, but 3 months from now, you just have to swap intakes.