1988 Formula LO3 5-spd with just under 170,000 mi.

It sounds like it wants to start, but can't turn the flywheel over. When I turn the key, the starter engages, and turns over for half a second then stops - every time. I can hear what I believe is my fuel pump going, and I can smell gas ... so that's fine.

I drove the car to work Tuesday (its my daily driver) and got home in the rain (tropical depression Jean). It got pounded with rain that night, and Wednesday morning is when it wouldn't start. It dried out all day Weds. and still won't start. Same problem.

Any Ideas, Comments?

Thanks,

KZad

 

So the motor won't turn over all the way? Did you check to see if you had a dead battery?

 

Exactly Shifty -

I should have plenty of battery. the lights are bright, and everything electrical works. The motor will turn over very strong for half a second (like normally), then its almost like it's over-powered or something and it'll stop. Its almost like the motor's seized up or something, and wont turn over.

Someone told me that it could be the timing chain?

I will put a battery charger on it today after work, and see if that helps.

 

I'd suggest removing the spark plugs, spin it over for a bit, and make sure there's no water in the cylinders. That will clear out any water that might be in it. Hopefully, if there is some there, it hasn't already bent any rods from trying to start it.

 

RB83L69 -

I highly doubt that there's any water in the cylinders. It's not like the rain was that bad here in Jersey. I just mentioned it because I have the plate in my formula's "power bulge" hood removed, and some water could have entered there, and hit the Distributor cap or something.

Thanks for the idea though.

 

Yeah rain wasn't that bad here, Im from Hamilton too. Still take RB's suggestion, even if there isnt water in there I'll still help ya figure out if its the engine that won't turn over or the starter.

 

Most of your electrical stuff can still work with a dead battery. It will have enough juice to turn on your exterior and interior lights but will not have enough juice to turn over the motor. If you think there is any possiblity of rain getting in I would check what RB stated. At least then you can rule that out.

 

Head gasket will do this. My wife's toyota would do this when it blew the head gasket. Let the water drain into the oil pan and it would start right up and run like crap. Had to replace the head gasket. She came out of the grocery store and it wouldn't turn over . . . . .

 

Sounds like a very 'weak' battery. Enough to trigger the fuel pump and lights, but not enough to crank the engine over...

.... continued from other response;

"or something". Check you're alternator, and make sure you're battery cables are secure. Chances are (because we live pretty close, and drove in the same weather that night), you had you're defogger, wipers and lights on, right? You probably fried you're alternator, and unknowingly drained out the battery.

 

I didnt get a chance to work on the car last night. Something came up after work, and I had a lot of other crap to do.

I will definately look at it this weekend though. I will start by either charging the battery or jumping the car and checking the alternator and battery connections.


thanks guys

KZad

 

I put the battery charger on it this weekend, and charged it for a good couple of hours. When I tried to start it, it was all the same. The starter seemed to have some more life to it, but that's probably just because I drained the battery a little trying to start it so many times last week.

Battery terminals were tight.

It really just seems like the motor will not turn over at all. Is there something in a motor that could break that could stop the flywheel from spinning?

Again, Timing chain?

 

What happened when you pulled the spark plugs out and tried to spin it?

 

I didnt get a chance to pull the plugs and try to spin it. I figured I wouldn't be able to do that, since I can't get the motor to spin as it is... plugs in or not.

Pulling the plugs shouldn't help my problem, and unless the water will just leak outta there, I don't think this test'll help me.

Any more ideas? I'm open to all suggestions.

KZad

 

Pull the spark plugs out.

If there's water in the cyls, it will prevent the motor from turning over, being incompressible. It will shoot out of the plug holes when you then try to start it.

You're wasting your time, until you pull the spark plugs out. Don't worry about "should", just go ahead and do it. It's not a test. It's the repair.

Let's just hope that nothing further needs repairs, like bent connecting rods.

 

Alrighty then, I'll try anything once.

Should I pull all 8 plugs at the same time, or one at a time? And then I just crank it over as I would starting the car on a regular day, right? How long should I let it crank?

Should I have someone else under the car watching for the water to exit, or can I do it myself - knowing that if there was water in there that it'll be gone after a few seconds of cranking?

If I pull all 8 plugs and the motor will turn over, what does that mean? Compression problems?


Thanks.

KZad

 

The water that's in the cyls is preventing the engine from turning over, because it can't be compressed.

Yes you'd need to take all 8 out. Some of the water will run out at that point, probably not much though. Have somebody crank the motor while you watch; I'm betting you'll see a fair amount of it getting ejected from each cyl.

After that, put the plugs back in, and it should fire.

Might be a good time to put new ones in.

Hopefully, when it fires up, it will be OK, and you won't find that you have any bent rods.

 

RB, you're a genius.

I took out all of the plugs on the driver's side, and thought that I discovered the problem when one of the plugs was WET.

I then took out the pass. side plugs. When I pulled out the first plug, easily about 6 oz. of water poured out of the motor. This was the plug closest to the front of the car. All of the others were pretty much dry.

I didnt have anyone with me, so I couldn't lay under the car to see if any more water poured out. I turned the car over - IT WORKED! - and it also sprayed water everywhere!

It scared me at first cause water was everywhere. So I got out and checked things over - A-OK. Turned over again and more water pushed out. I kept turning it over until it turned nice and smoothly.

Now its sitting for awhile to let things dry before I put in the new plugs.

I noticed another thing. My radiator's empty. about a month ago my temp. guage was going funky so I checked and it was empty. I filled it to the top, then filled the over-flow tank too. Now the radiatory's empty again. COULD THESE PROBLEMS BE LINKED?

I noticed that the water on the street could have had a green tinge to it, and it was bubbly (like anti-freeze gets when its shaken).

What now?

 

Good! Well, not "good", but maybe, better than some of the alternatives, thus far anyway.

It's possible that the head gasket could have got damaged, or something like that; but I rather doubt it.

I'd say, go ahead and put it back together, fire it up, fill the rad, and go from there. Whatever your coolant leak is or isn't, probably won't have anything to do with the water in the cyls. However the temp gauge acting strange would be connected to running low of coolant, that being its job.

 

Hmmm. Water ran low before. Radiator empty now. Water in cylinders. Sounds like definately a head gasket to me.

Did the water that came out have antifreeze in it (assuming you have antifreeze in your radiator)?

Hook a compression tester to that cylinder, put air pressure on it, and turn the engine over till you don't hear any air coming out the intake or the exhaust. Then see if it is blowing water out of your radiator fill neck, or at least see if you can hear air coming out the radiator fill.

If you hear it coming out the radiator fill, pull the head and replace the head gasket.

Another thing you can try is filling the radiator with water and then lightly pressurize the radiator (10-15psi max) and see if water comes out your spark plug hole.

 

Put the new plugs in (went with Bosch Platinums) and the car ran friggin great. Only problem, besides the coolant being low, was that the throttle was sticking. When I accellerated and shifted, the RPM's would stay up near 3000 or wherever I shifted.

Today I cleaned the throttle body with carb cleaner, and made sure I hit the throttle spring as well. then I put some white lithium grease on the throttle spring. All fixed.

Changed the oil today too. It had a sort of caramel color to it. Wasn't thick at all. I'd say besides the color, the oil looked normal.

Yellow -

I'm praying its not a blown head gasket. What are some other signs to look for??

 

Are you getting steam out the tail pipe when the engine is at operating temperature? If you have the radiator cap off, do you get pressure pulses out of the radiator?

How did the water get into your cylinder? If you know it didn't come from the radiator then you're OK. But, to have enough water in the cylinder to cause hydrolock means you have a leak somewhere or you had the intake open to rain or some other water source.

Carmel colored oil could be expected if you had water in a cylinder and then ran the engine for a while after getting it running again. The water could have run down around the rings into the oil. Now that you have clean oil in it, run it for a while till it's hot, turn it off, and check the oil right away. If you see any froth or foam on the dipstick then it's probably water. Do this every few days till you are sure.

I have heard that antifreeze will wreck your main and rod bearings pretty quickly.

 

Caramel colored oil, and water in the cylinders? Add to this a radiator that is emptying by itself? CHANGE YOUR HEAD GASKETS! If You havent already ruined a bearing or three, you will. Drain the crappy oil out of the pan, and change the gaskets.

 

why yes i know exactly what you mean we are pulling the engine in my pick up right now that blew a head gasket and torched the bearings ....LOL

i took off the valve covers today and it looked like someone have dumped a chocolate milk shake in there and ran the engine for a while...LOL
trashed...

 

The water in my cylinders is from when Tropical Depression Jean blew through my area. The car ran fine the right before the storm came, and now that I have drained the cylinders, it run runs fine once again.

I believe that my head gaskets are fine, however, I will keep an eye on the oil via the "dipstick" method.

Thank you everyone.

 

I'm glad I live in the northwest where all we have to worry about is volcanos