I searched the forum, but couldn't find a direct answer.


I'm putting a T5 from a '91 Camaro into my '78 El Camino. I saved the starter off the '91 Camaro, but it has the staight across bolt pattern, my '78 has the staggared bolt pattern for the starter. Can I use a starter for a '84-'85 F-body T5 application? When did they go to the straight across bolt pattern?

 

Right about 78 was when they changed it. My 78 El Camino uses it, for example; although I seem to recall that both my 78 and 79 Z28s (305 vs 350 here) used the staggered bolt pattern.

If you have that issue, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY to avoid drilling the hole. As I've said before, don't believe it when people start telling you that this or that or the other starter "ought to" work, or "heard" that such and such would, or whatever. The problem is, the later-model starter has to be located about 5/8" closer to the crank than the early-model starter; and that moves the starter motor's shaft over so far, that the bolt that would go in the hole you have, would go RIGHT THROUGH THE MIDDLE of the starter drive.

Here's a 400 I drilled. The magenta circle is around the new hole. The 2 cyan lines show how far over it is from the "staggered" hole. Some older blocks have a hole there; but not all that many. And of course it doesn't help in this situation anyway.

 

I found this on chevytalk.com:

So, could I swap the starter motors and noses around to get what I need?

 

Sure would; if and only if you had a block that it would bolt to (that is, one with the bolt hole in question). Without thatbolt hole, it doesn't matter whether you use a long bolt or a short bolt, or a cast-iron nosepiece or an aluminum one, or a late-model or early-model one, or a OEM or aftermarket starter, or anything else; if you could somehow get a bolt through the starter and into the inboard bolt hole that is there, the bolt would still have to go RIGHT THROUGH THE MIDDLE of the starter drive, because with the smaller flywheel, that's where the starter drive has to be... closer to the crank. About ½"outboard of that existing hole. Too close to fit.

 

yes you can swap starters but you might have to drill and tap one of the holes as was said earlier, most blocks I have came across had both patterns though(maybe I'm just lucky

 

I wasn't thinking on the swap parts idea, still ends up with the same problem I'm thinking there must be an aftermarket starter for this type of swap, just need to find the right one. I've seen some talk of dual pattern starters, just havn't seen if they fit the smaller flywheel too. Any thoughts?

 

Yes, they fit the smaller flywheel just fine; IF THE BLOCK HAS THE HOLE. I have one. It's a CVR. It was bolted to the block in the pic for some years, using the hole circled in magenta. It would not have worked without it. 400/T-5 combo in my 83.

 

Well thats just damn depressing! I can't believe nobody in the aftermarket world makes an offset bolt starter to fit the 153 tooth flywheel. I'm not really thrilled at this point having to drill and tap a hole while laying on my back under the car I need a beer!

 

I don't believe this has sunk in quite yet....

It's not a question of somebody "making" a starter that will work. The reality is, there's NO POSSIBLE WAY to make a starter that will fit that combination of flywheel size and bolt hole location; unless somebody comes out with some offset BOLTS. Like, a bolt that somehow has about a ¾" jog about 1" below the head so it can go off to the side.

Look at the pic I posted. It's a dual pattern starter. With the right block hole in the block, it works like a charm. You're looking at the starter as you would see it in the car, from above, as if the block was clear. OK, now look at the 4 holes across the top, in the aluminum block. The ones that are used for the small flywheel, are the extreme left-hand one, and the leftward one of the 2 at the right. Reason for that is, since the flywheel is SMALL, the starter drive has to be located CLOSER to the crank than it would be if the starter was larger. This combination of holes locates the starter drive in the corret place to mesh with the SMALLER DIAMETER flywheel. Now, notice the spacing between those 2 right-hand bolt holes. Your offset pattern has its inboard hole about 5/8" closer to the starter drive than the left-hand one of those 2 holes. Imagine trying to put a bolt through a starter at that spot, which will be about ½-¾" from the starter drive itself. Have you ever looked inside a starter? It has a big thing inside there, that functions as a one-way clutch. It's usually about twice the diameter of the tooth part of the gear. As you can plainly see, the bolt would have to go RIGHT THROUGH THE MIDDLE of the starter drive, in order to do what everybody wishes it would do. That's why it won't work.... not because "nobody makes one", but rather, because the guts of the starter are in the way.

I cannot tell you how many times I've posted this, and how many times other people have posted all about "my buddy this" or "the Jeg's catalog that" or "a guy at the track the other", and the poor guy that asked the question heard what he wanted to hear from somebody with no BTDT and dropped their motor in, only to find themselves right where you evidently are right now.... alot of them, even after being warned to take care of it BEFORE the motor goes in.

I would strongly recommend NOT trying to lay on your back and do this underneath the car. You'll probably just end up trashing the block, at least for a 12.8" flywheel application. Take it out, and take it to somebody that has the right tools to drill the hole perfectly straight, with the right size little entry so that a real starter bolt works, etc. It may seem like alot of work now, but I will 100% guarantee you it will save you trouble and money in the long run. ALOT of it.