un4givin89

Heres a dumb one, I searched through the acrhive. I have had my car for 4 weeks now, with no owners manual. And I heard all about the modile 1 debate. But I forgot what I used when I first changed the oil when I bought it, think it was like Penizol 10w-40 I think, does that sound about right. What should I be using, 10w-30 or 15-50, I know this is stupid, but my oil level is really low and I need to figure this one out.

305 Camaro RS V8 5.0 TBI

NHcamaro

I use 10w-30 quaker state in my LO3

un4givin89

LMAO HAHA, I guess I should have read my oil lid, its totally printed on there. HEHE, I am gonna switch to modile 1 synthetic oil next oil change. My lid says use SAE 5W-30.

[This message has been edited by un4givin89 (edited August 02, 2001).]

West Coast GTA Man

I used to use Quaker State 10w 30, which I think is good oil, but now i use Valvoline 10w 30. Also I add Prolong to the oil at every 3000 mile change.
Later
Mike

------------------
(Gran Turismo Americano) "The Ultimate Firebird"
Smokin 1989 GTA- Bone stock except for exhaust. (no catalytic-stainless pipe into Flowmaster 2 chamber) & AC Delco Rapid Fire Plugs

JETHROIROC

Run Mobil 1 5W-30 and you'll be happy. And forget about the additives as it would be like pissing in fine perfume.

------------------
1990 IROC 350
Mods: Too busy trying to make it run right to mod it.
Airfoil, Dynomax cat-back, Accel coil, 180 t-stat, Bald Eagle tires,
Hypertech fan switch, Accel 23# injectors, Holley AFPR, ported plenum,
Ruger P95DC, hot wife, new oil filter, thick rubber floormats, no cats.
18.0 @ 85MPH since I'm one big-a$$ MF
"It's better to have and not need than to need and not have."

82camaro

Run 5w30/10w30 weight (insert what ever brand turns your crank here) oil, change it and the filter(don't use fram) every 3000 miles, don't let it get lower than the add line and you will be just fine.

------------------
350 with stealth intake, holley carb, 470 lift cam. 700r4 with .5 boost valve, vette servo, tci lock-up kit, B&M megashifter. Richmond 3.73 gears, powertrax locker, timkin bearings, synthetic lube. Custom 3 inch single into 2 2.5 pipes. 1 1/2 drop springs, 1 5/16 solid front sway bar, 1 inch rear bar, custom subframe connectors, custom LCA relocation brackets. Kobel ground FX, current red metallic paint. Lots of other stuff...
82camaro

One Eyed Jack

mobile 1 is just a waste of money.

JETHROIROC

If you're going to post something ridiculous like that, have some good reason to back it up.

un4givin89

I'm assuming your talking to One Eyed Jack??

One Eyed Jack

Yeah Mobile 1 does nothing to protect your engine better than withstand higher temperatures. Why pay three to four times as much for oil that will last you maybe 500 miles longer than normal? My uncle did a test of everything like this at work. Common household bleach is a better lubricant than ANY motor oil on the market- but it just has that corrosive property thats not good for engines :P. Slick 50 is bad for the engine because it contains small particles of TEFLON. This will damage an engine if it broke down. Addatives are bad, most of them cause the motor oil to break down FASTER. He says the best bet is just to go with 10w30, or 5w30 for better gas mileage.

He knows his stuff. He's been a mechanic for probably 35 years. He works especially good with Ford but also knows an incredible amount of GM. Hey when he got married to my Aunt, she made him sell both of his camaros (1969 and something esle). Women, hah!

But seriously the only thing you'd need Mobile 1 for is if your engine runs 260 degrees constantly.

greearhr

No offense but I've met some really smart mechanics and some real dodo heads. Heh, heh. Some times us old f#@rts get set in our ways. I really think 5w30 is way too thin for an engine that runs at 230 degrees. That's also why I like synthetics. Regular oil break down from that kind of heat. I changed mine to Castrol 5w50 and the warm idle oil pressure increased from 20 to 40. The factory has to meet fuel and emssions standards that are opposed to longevity and performance considerations. That why they recomend thin oil. They also recomend synthetics i.e. new Corvette's come with Mobile one.
Just my nickles worth,
Bear Tracks

rezinn

Conventional motor oil contains waxes and contaminants that cause them to solidify in when cold(Pennzoil), synthetic oils do not; therefor they do not solidify, even in extreme cold. This allows for faster cold starts and less deposits, less consumption, less pollution. We all have our opinions, but compare the inside of an engine after running synthetic and regular oil for 100,000 miles and you will see the difference.

I would not use additives, but I wouldn't say that they are bad. There is evidence of false claims by additive makers, but there is no evidence that they hurt engines.

Did you know that GM has been putting synthetic oil in the corvette since 1991, and under warranty you must continue to do this?

JETHROIROC

I was talking to One-Eyed. When I bought mine with 33K on the odometer and pulled the valve covers there was sludge on the heads and valvetrain components. I switched to Mobil 1 and pulled them 8K later and it's clean gray cast iron heads and no deposits whatsoever. I have many other personal experiences with the superior properties of Mobil 1 and other synthetics but some people know everything I guess .

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

People who think they know it all sure do annoy those of us who do...

To say synthetic doesn't protect any better than petroleum can only be attributed to ignorance. The only question is if you're willing the pay the higher per-quart cost.

GM was really quiet about their synthetic factory fill at first. It was a simple matter of economics: synthetics = fewer warranty claims. Ryder specified synthetics in their truck drive trains even before that to protect their assets against customer abuse and to reduce on-road breakdowns.

The truth is out there...

------------------
82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R4. 2.93 limited slip. Cat-back from '91 GTA, ZZ3 intake, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (LG4 w/'87 LB9 block, ZZ3 cam, ported World 305 heads, Hooker headers & y-pipe, 3" Catco cat & 3" cat-back).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. '66 396, 9.7 CR forged TRWs, Weiand Action+, Edelbrock 1901 Q-Jet, GK 270 cam, Magnum rockers, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" Hedders & 3" Warlocks, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, MegaShifter, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Idles smooth @ 600 RPM in D. Best 15.02/95.06 @ 5800' Bandimere (corrected 13.93/102.4 @ sea level).

Blue_Meanie86SC

I'm with five7kid, I use Amsoil 10W30 in my engine. I'm no mechanic, but it does seem to run a little smoother and the oil isn't quite as dirty with the synthetic. Besides, I'd rather plunk down a few dollars more just to be safe, even if it would only extend the life of the engine 500 miles, that's one more little road trip I could take

un4givin89

Don't arguee with idiots, they will just bring you down to their level and beat you with experince

SSC

I'll agree with this and your other post to a certain point.
I just changed to synthetic "mobile 1" and I havent seen any milage gains. Same old lg4 as far as everything is concerned except the puff of blue on start up is now white. Did I expect to see major improvemnts, not really. I just hope the oil stays clean for 6k.

SSC

un4givin89

Just to ask another question, whats the best oil filter!

Grim Reaper

I have owned MANY Chevy's (plus other brands) in my lifetime (driving over 30 years) and I swapped to Mobil 1 back in the mid 80s.

On my current car (owned it since new in 1991), I have used Mobil 1 exclusively since the break in.

I can tell you a few things after almost 200,000 miles on my engine. No puff of blue on start up and the car barely burns a 1/4 quart of oil in 6,000 miles (I doubled my change interval with synthetic over regular oil).

NONE of my other SBCs even came close to this longetivity with regular oil. And YES, you can double the interval change safely...I think 200,000 miles of trouble free driving is proof enough.

If ANYONE can show DOCUMENTED better with regular oil, I would like to hear it. But, I have tried many different types of oil, ALWAYS changed my oil every 3,000 miles (except the synthetic) and NOTHING has come close.

AND YES, the puff of blue counts against you if you ran regular oil and you have less than 200,000 miles.

FYI, I switched to synthetic oil because of the "puff of blue" problem I had on a previous SBC back in the mid 80s. The engine only had 100,000 miles and had a large blue cloud every time I started it and the oil consumption had gotten to almost 2 quarts every 3,000 miles. In spite of all the "you can't use synthetic in an old engine" nay-sayers, I went to synthetic.

My oil burning problem cease to get any worst and it still burnt the same amount of oil when I got rid of the car about 5 years later and with 200,000 miles on the engine at that time. But I think it is best to start using synthetic right after you "break your engine in".

PS: If you double the change interval to 6,000 miles, it is no more expensive than a good brand of regular oil.

One Eyed Jack

There are people on this board pushing well over 200k miles, and they probably use dino oil. Anyways I'm not gonna listen to your BS until you can PROVE this stuff. My uncle did tests in the lab- lets see your results. Then we'll compare.

JETHROIROC

What kind of "tests" prove synthetic the same as or slightly better than petroleum lube? I just told you my cylinder head story, or how about the Nissan 300ZX twin turbo that ran fine on 3/4 quart of Mobil 1 for months of abusive driving under my lead-footed friend, or how about my 4.3L Blazer with an idle smooth enough to put a new Lexus to shame...not to flame you or your uncle, and I'm sure he IS a good mechanic. However, having a mechanical engineering degree, having worked in a chemical plant as a maintenance engineer and selecting lubricants for rotating equipment in various severe duties (petroleum oil was used very rarely), having worked on automobiles for many years myself, and presently working in the automotive industry I must disagree with him (except about the additives).

I'm with 5.7, Glenn and Blue, be wiser and you will be too. I'm also a poet .

JETHROIROC

Sorry un4givin, I got carried away like you warned us not to. To answer your other question I'd probably say there are several you can't go wrong with. I'll list my own preferences:

AC Ultraguard Gold
Purolator Pure One
Mobil 1

AC Ultraguard Gold is probably one of the best, if not the best filter on the market. For less money, the Pure One seems to be a good value. If you're pockets aren't that deep, regular AC is pretty good also. Just my $0.02 and hope this helps.

james_fearn

My 305 had over 230,000 miles when I retired it. It didn't break but I just wanted more power and the though of a 230,000 mi engine scared the bejesus out of me. I used regular dino oil and changed the oil very irregularly


James

------------------
1985 Z-28, 350 TPI, T-Tops, edelbrock 6085 heads, ZZ4 cam, accel base/runners & 24 lb/hr inj., ported plenum, everything gasket matched, crane AFPR, SLP 1 5/8 headers, single 3" flowmaster catback, 3" Catco cat, modified tranny, 165 ECM & ARAP code, MSD 6AL/wires, edelbrock STB, Spohn SFC, GW "wonderbar"

One Eyed Jack

See, you dont NEED that expensive crap. Its like toilet paper. You dont want the scratchy generic crap they have in public restrooms, but you dont want that scented quilted BS with flowers on it too.

CamaroX84

Well, some people are just extremely lucky to get 230,000 miles on their motors. You can't say from one person's experience that non-synthetic is automatically better. We switched to synthetic in our van and you could definitely tell a difference in the smoothness of the idle. What about the Dodge Viper? The motor was designed specifically to run on Mobile 1 synthetic oil. My dad works for Chyrsler and went to Viper school. They couldn't stress enough that Mobile 1 oil MUST be used in the Viper motors.

------------------
1984 Camaro Sport Coupe - Rebuilt 355 S/D TPI L98, Crane 2032 CompuCam, Crane adjustable fuel pressure regulator, MSD Blaster coil, custom burned PROM, stock TPI intake, Accel 24# injectors, gutted air box with K&N filters
F41 Suspension Package, 700R4 Tranny, TCI Breakaway torque converter, 3.27 Posi Rear
Hooker Shorty Headers, Catco High-Flow 3" Cat, Flowmaster 3" American Thunder Cat-Back

Best 1/4 Mile Run:
14.137 @ 94.57 MPH

1992 1LE B4C Police Camaro RS - 305 TPI 5-Speed

JoelOl75

Tear down almost any chevy motor that died an untimely death, and as long as it wasn't oil pump output related(or overheating), the next thing is carboned rings. Petroleum based junk 'boils' inside the rings lands and cakes it up causing all kinds of problems.

If a synthetic was used, the higher heat resistance would of helped as the compression through leakdown would of cleared the oil away before it left deposits.

Of course changing your oil regularly helps, but hey, I use Mobil 1.


If you don't belive me, you could take a look at a block I have and check out them pistons. Seems the deposits clogged the pistion pin lube holes and seized the pins in the pistons. Only two I could turn on the pins. The history of the motor was 350 chevy, truck, low rpm operation, 180,000 miles, ran pretty good till the 'incident' and ran pennsoil on about 9,000 to 12,000 oil changes.

So maybe changing the oil more often would have added life.

Petroleum oils can only withstand 230 degrees before they really start to cook. Now I know alot are saying, my oil never gets that hot, but where are you measuring it from? Definatly not between the rings.

82camaro

I like Baldwin/Amsoil filters. Synthetic is a better oil. The question is does your engine need the additional strength of synthetic to last a long time. If it's a mild street engine that is taken care of properly, probably not. I know a salesman that bought a mid 90's buick to drive all over the place. Last time I saw the car(2 years ago) he had 315000 miles on it. He had the oil changed at wal-mart with the bulk QS 10w30 every 3000 miles. The oil always looked clean and the engine ran great. This doesn't mean that everybody should switch to QS. Just that taking care of a car is way more important than the '315000' miles. Everybody has an opinion on this board about this, mine is just change the oil/filter every 3000 miles. Maybe where you are from you can run synthetic 6000 plus miles, around here the oil is dirty at or before 3000 miles--synthetic or otherwise.

------------------
350 with stealth intake, holley carb, 470 lift cam. 700r4 with .5 boost valve, vette servo, tci lock-up kit, B&M megashifter. Richmond 3.73 gears, powertrax locker, timkin bearings, synthetic lube. Custom 3 inch single into 2 2.5 pipes. 1 1/2 drop springs, 1 5/16 solid front sway bar, 1 inch rear bar, custom subframe connectors, custom LCA relocation brackets. Kobel ground FX, current red metallic paint. Lots of other stuff...
82camaro

un4givin89

If I change to sythenic next oil change, with a car life of 97000 already, could I drive this thing for the next 2 years as my daily driver and get better perforamce??


I know this will stir up more debate.

Vader

1 I Jack,
At the risk of beating a dead horse, tell you uncle that fully synthetic oil can make a difference. I had an LT1 tear down at 110,000 miles that had 4/10ths taper and out-of-round in the WORST bore. The wear was in calculated from the differences measured in the bores, not in excess of production tolerances. In essence, the engine would still have statistically qualified as a 'NEW" engine since the measurements were within production tolerance limits. The wear never even approached the service wear specs. The engine had the original timing chain and it had no more slack than the new chain. Main and rod bearings showed wear, but the crank journals showed zero measureable wear.

The engine had synthetic from it's first day and was changed at most at 3,600 mile intervals. Not a flame, just some experience.

I'll agree that it is most important to change oil frequently. That alone can preserve and protect an engine better than average. It's just that synthetics offer that little bit more protection. And if you really want to identify a waste of cash, you can look at the additives that are so commonly available. Many of them actually compromise the lubrication of a good engine oil.

As for the original question, if you HAD an owners' manual you could read that above 40°F you can use 10W30 engine oil. Personally, 5W-anything is too light for me. The molecular length is too short and film strength (molecular acohesion) is too low for adequate protection. It works, but there is little safety factor. If you are concerned about lubrication at low temperatures, that's where synthetics really excell. A synthetic 10W30 will pump and lubricate at far lower temperatures than even a 0W mineral oil.

------------------
Later,
Vader
------------------
"Let the bodies hit the floor!"
Adobe Acrobat Reader

92fire-audio

I'd like to see One Eyed Jack PROVE that teflon can damage an engine.. Those additives are not good nor bad for your car. Basically once you put them in, the suspended solids (teflon) are trapped in the oil filter. Some of them arn't trapped and "coat" the parts of the engine. Teflon has never been proven to be 'bad' for engines..

One of the best tests I can think of would have to be the test I just ran, in a 98 firebird. It had regular 10w30 in it for 40k miles. It also had alot of buildup on the heads and in the pan. We switched to mobile 1 10 w 30 and all the sludge is gone and the car performs much better and doesn't lose any oil. This isn't a scientific experiment but it is what counts.

Vader

...And if you want empirical data, check the SLP site. They have posted dyno numbers showing an actual crankshaft horsepower increase from a synthetic oil fill alone - new mineral oil versus new synthetic oil. If that isn't a reduction in internal friction, it must be magic.

You can also find a good source for infomation on lubrication at: http://www.lubetraining.com/

or at: http://www.manufacturing.net/ple/

Punch down throught the menus and you can learn a lot...

------------------
Later,
Vader
------------------
"Let the bodies hit the floor!"
Adobe Acrobat Reader

ede

even after being warned you all still continued to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponet.

------------------
ICON Motorsports
1st & 3rd
MM Black Diamond 538 F&AM