1982TA

iTrader: (1)

I was wondering how readily available are crossfire injection parts? Can you upgrade or repair the throttle bodies? Is anyone making aftermarket replacement parts, like can I go into autozone and get parts? I'm thinking about putting the CFI back on my TA. Also will anything interchange with the Corvette 5.7 Crossfire engine?

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

i tried to find parts for mine years ago, i gave up. you can still get the basic parts i'm sure but as for upgrades like bigger TB's i dunno..


my CFI 305 ran like poo, Fuel Injection and 1982 don't mix


*edit, check this out: http://www.swko.net/~lionsden/crossfire.htm

Tom 400 CFI

Intakes, throttle bodies, injectors, and of course all the other stuff you normally change; cams, rockers, exhaust, etc. are all the same.

It all depends on how much effort you care to give the car. My CFI ran the opposite of "like poo", when I had it. I now have a carb'ed car and I can tell you the CFI was better.

Everythign is interchangeable w/a 5.7 Corvette CFI. What specifically do you have in mind? What are your goals and I can tell you exactly what you need to do.

-Tom

kevinc

I upgraded to TPI, and later to an LS1. Previously I'd run Quadrajet, Holley 650 Vac Sec, 650 double pumper, etc.

Relative to any of these, the CFI wasPoo Supreme, Mondo Poo, Poo On A Stick With Cheese...you get the picture.

Even when the CFI was freshly balanced to spec using a water manometer, fresh plugs, timing dead on, bolted to a freshly built 305 roller cam engine, it was still Poo Fondue.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

i have driven a few CFI cars that ran quite well, for the time during which they were built, but most were dogs, the best of any of them wouldn't have touched a TPI.
the only advantage i would see to putting it back on your car is if you were going to start doing the OEM type of car shows where anything thats not an OE part counts against you.

Tom 400 CFI

Something wasn't right then.

Mine ran 14.5@95 w/headers, a T-5,and "free mods".

When I sold it, it would run low 13.2x's. And I had around $1500 into the whole engine/injection/exhaust. Tough to beat that w/TPI. Not impossible but not common either.

They SHOULD run well, and w/little effort and virtually no money, getting 250 crank hp out of one should be no problem.

kevinc

For $1200 I bought a complete L98 and TPI powertrain, this was back in 1998.

I got better things to do than balance worn-out TBs.

Tom 400 CFI

But you didn't run 13.2 w/it.

Are CFI TB's prone to wearing out? More than any other TB??

Not that I'm aware of.

kevinc

Nope, I stabbed in a new cam, set of GM aluminum L98 heads, and a cheap set of hypereutectic pistons to get 13.2sec.

Having to work just to get a 14.5 @ 95 out of a 350ci engine qualifies as Poo-level performance.

More linkages on CFI than any other GM fuel injection system from 1982 on, and as they wear (as do all other bushed throttle bodies, granted) keeping them balanced becomes impossible.

And balancing a single-TB system is sort of not necessary...

84L69TA

The only people who talk bad about CFI are people who have no idea how to work on them or understand them. My old 82 TA was equipped with the LU5/200C combo with a 3.23 posi. That car was bone stock with the exception of a 3" catback....and it would regularly give LB9 cars some hell. I loved it, and Id would buy another LU5 car in a second.

1982TA

iTrader: (1)

Basically what I want to do is convert my carb setup back to the stock CFI setup. I would like to upgrade the CFI to run a little better than it would in '82 but trying to find info and upgrades is hard. I know about the X-Ram and bigger throttle bodies but what about the ECM, cam, etc? I've read about Corvette CFI's running 11's and 12's but these are 350's. I even saw one corvette with a supercharged CFI setup. I'm not necessarily looking for these numbers or know if it's possible with a CFI 305. Right now I'm just trying to find out what parts I need. I have the GM shop manual and I've been looking it over to see what relays and stuff I need. It already seems like a daunting task since basically all the original stuff under the hood is gone, and one of the major things I'm going to need is a wiring harness. It seems all of the major relays and brackets are gone, none of the emissions stuff works, but I do have the canister although it's not hooked up. The original fuel lines are hacked and some missing, Cruise Control is gone but I would like to get all of the original pieces for that also, and since cruise is gone my speedometer doesn't work. I know alot of people say that CFI is crap but I don't care, it's different, it's part of the cars history. I want to restore my car back to stock and I'm tired of the carb setup. There isn't much CFI stuff on ebay so I always check the classifides on here hoping someone has an '82 that they are parting out. Once in a while I'll see the throttle bodies and air cleaner but not often. There is so much stuff I don't even really know where to begin.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

i'll dig around and see what i have left...

i know i saw the computer recently, and i still have the hood louver/solenoid setup in storage. My harness got hacked up pretty bad so i dunno about that..


You know... you could always build up a nice roller 355 or 383 and toss the CFI setup on top.. noone would know

some porting and i bet that CFI top end would flow hella nice

BTW, i believe my TB's on mine were out sync or something like that. It idled fine but as soon as you gave it any gas it always wanted to die. If you put the pedal to the floor you would have to peel yourself off the seats tho

i miss the gearing of the 200R and the 3.23.. my TH400 just dosen't play nice with the 3.23's

1982TA

iTrader: (1)

Yah, the more I'm thinking of going CFI the more I'm thinking going with a 350 or 383. I was reading in the z28.com forums about a guy wanting to swap out his CFI for a carb setup. Surprisingly pretty much everyone told him not to do it. They said it's not really worth it to upgrade the CFI on a 305, but on a 350 I guess it responds better. I'll have to check into it, but right now I don't have the money to get a different engine. I'm just curious what kind of ECU would handle the extra power with a 350 and CFI. Would a Corvette ECU be a good idea? Would it be compatable with an 82 Firebird wiring harness? Should I look for a Corvette engine and build it up?

gmgod

If anyone is interested in some serious hi-pooformance my brother in law has a crossfire (along with the magnesium valve covers and air cleaner) off of an 84 vette I'm sure he would part with, pm me.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

the stock ECU would handle a mild 350.. but a reprogramming would be needed.

i've done some chip programming for newer cars like my 1991 Z24 but i wouldn't know where to start on something that old.. g0d only knows what the code looks like

Tom 400 CFI

So how much did you have into it after those changes?? I said that I was running 13.2x's for ~$1500.00

My response to that:
BECAUSE....
-That was a 305 that was running 14.5. If you had to "struggle" to get a CFI 350 to run 14.5's then either the car it was in was WAY to heavy, or you're missing part of the picture. No offense intended. I got my 305 CFI to run mid 14's I would say, VERY easily. If I were doing it over again, knowing what I know now, I BET I could break into the 13's w/that 305 and another $150 bucks in mods.

Tom 400 CFI

O.K. Here goes...
You need to figure out what your goal is power wise, and it would be much easier for me to tell you how to do it, but right off the bat, forget about the "X-ram". You don't need it. For way less money, you can achieve the same power level out of the stock intake by simply spending a couple hours porting it. A WELL ported CFI intake will support up to about 300 hp fine, and up to just about 320 w/a stout motor under it. Basically, fully ported, it'll become a pretty major restriction past 300 hp. If you want to go further, you can supercharge it, 305, 350, 383 whatever you can supercharge any engine. Or you can change the stock intake w/another cross ram intake that'll flow as much as you'll ever need; an Edelbrock SY-1 for example. Direct bolt on, same configuration, and appearance...MUCH better flow. You need to make or have made a top lid for that intake so you can put your TB's on it.

Cam: Pick what ever cam you need to achieve your goals. You can use virtually any cam you want. As w/ any other EFI car, one with a wider lobe separation is better.

ECM: Everyone and their brother will tell you that You NEED to do PROM burning. That is not necessarily true. Make no mistake; that is absolutely that best path to take. However in my Trans Am, I ran:
Stock 305
305 in 14.5@95 configuration
A 350 for a few years
Then a 400 in various configurations ending at the above mentioned 13.2x 1/4 mile set up.

ALL of these combos...ALL of them, ran off the original, 1983, bone-box-stock ECM and chip. In each configuration, I always managed to get a stock like, smooth idle, great power and driveability, and at least 24 mpg on the highway. So my set up couldn't have been too far off. Again ECM tuning is better, but by being creative w/fuel pressure, injector size, and timing, I got the stock ECM and chip to run the 400 extremely well, IMO. Hope this all helps, but obviously the first thing you need to do is set some goals, and get all your parts.

-Tom

1982TA

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the help. Basically I would like to be able to get around 300-350 HP. If I can do this with my 305 that would be great because I really don't want to spend the money to drop in a different engine. I'm cheap and don't have a lot of money to throw around...at least not all at once. This isn't my daily driver so I have time to do stuff to it. I probably only take it out about once or twice a week anyway. It's stored in the winter. I read a stock '84 Corvette put out 204 HP and 290 Torque. Can I achieve this or better with a 305? Like I said, I'd like at least 300 HP. What kind of torque do you think I could get from the 305? I didn't realize that the CFI engines had alot of torque. Also I don't have the AC hooked up. I do have the compressor for it though and plan on putting it back in. What about the AIR pump? All my emmisions stuff is basically gone. Can I achieve 300 HP with all the emissions crap in place? Also, I'm not looking to do any drag racing at the track or anything. Occasional red light race but that's about it.

kevinc

I never ran CFI on my 350...the CFI went away in the same project that ditched the 305.

I don't try to polish turds.

No offense intended here either, but I think you're getting this guy's hopes up.

Tom 400 CFI

Alright...

I'll address each of your subjescts item by item.
The '84 Vette was rated at 205 hp. That is a 350 as you must know. I am good friends with someone that has an '84 Vette that is pushing around 280 hp. His mods are:
*Converter
*Shift kit
*No air filter
*Raised fuel pressure
*Advanced ignition timing
*Ported (the hell out of) CFI intake
*Removed "swirl plates"
*Bored throttle bodies (made zero difference)
*2.5" kink bent exhaust w/no cats
*Tires
The rest is a bone stock L83 w/150,000 miles. He's run a best of 13.7. That's creeping up on 300 hp territory, w/BASICALLY exhaust, ported intake, and tunning.

So back to you power questions, IMO, you can get up to 300hp w/the stock (ported) intake, but not w/a 305. I'd say 270 is about as far as you'd get w/a 305 and the stock (ported) intake. And getting over 300 SAE net hp out of a 305 w/any induction isn't that easy. If you want 350 hp, you're going to need a 350 at least, and an SY-1 intake or something like it. As for torque out of a 305, 300 lb-ft should be no problem.

As far as beating the stock 84 Corvette's power rating, all you need to do that is headers/cat/exhaust (which you need on any F-boday to make ANY power), a little intake porting, and tuning. Beating that bench-mark is a piece of cake.

They don't. 250 lb-ft for a 305 and 290 for a 350 is not a "lot of torque". WHat they DO do well is make a "lot" of low RPM torque. ANd even by todays standards, they really don't. But compared to car of the '80's, they did. They did this because the runners on the stock CFI intake are SO TINY, that they have a high velocity at low RPM's, which helps agument low RPM torque, at the expense of upper RPM torque. The runners are about 2/3 the size of the intake port in teh cylinder head, which is terrible. Hence the constant point I make about porting this intake. It's crucial and it make a gigantic difference; the more metal you take out of the runner's the faster your car will go. Plain and simple. You can't make them too big.


You can achieve 300 hp w/your emissions equipment except for the exhaust which like I said above, needs to be replaced w/emissions legal, but better flowing components on any 3rd gen.

Tom 400 CFI

Well I don't know what to say about that, pard. I could lie to him and tell him my car was slower than it was. Should I do that?

It DOES take a lot of WORK, but not much money at all. It's all labor intensive which makes it great for people who have a tight budget, and are clever.

Breazlan

iTrader: (1)

The main issue with the CFI is the manifold runners. Fix that problem and the rest is as good as most anything else when modifying. I would not try sell the idea that TPI is all that different than CFI. Both are large plenum small runner intakes. This being the reason both are noted for low end torque and why both are noted as being acceptable 305 setups. The difference being CFI is wet flow and TPI dry. This makes the TPI a bit sharper is overall feel. Of course this comparison is based on the exact same power setup, not stock setups found in the early 80s CFI and later years TPI. Even the LG4 from the CFI years picked up 20+ hp by the TPI years. In other words, swap a TPI onto a stock CFI car and the results will be about the same. I believe this thread refers to it as "poo."

Tom 400 CFI

^^
I agree.

-Tom

1982TA

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for all the info guys. I thought about going the TPI route also but I decided against it. Basically I know that there is power to be gained with the CFI even if I can only get up to about 270. That is about 100 over stock and I can live with that. No matter what you do to your car there is always going to be someone faster than you. I don't know how complex CFI is, but from reading the shop manual it doesn't seem like it's that difficult. Basically all I ever hear is the negative aspect of the CFI. Same with the 301 Turbo. That engine has potential but everyone swaps them out also. Some engines are just overlooked because people think they are too hard to work on, too many problems, or whatever. My neighbor keeps telling me to go with TPI and all he tells me is how bad the CFI is. That just makes me want to do it more because it's "different" and I like a challenge.

That being said...how difficult is it to port the CFI intake? What kind of tools do you use...a Dremel? I've never done anything like that so I wouldn't want to screw it up the first time I try.

Tom, you said your friend ported the throttle bodies and it made no difference. Why does everyone say to do it? Also would different heads and headers make a difference? I already have both on my car now...just wondering if it would help.

kevinc

Kind of like the Special Olympics.

OK, OK, I'll shut up on this subject and have a giggle later when the dyno data is posted.

Breazlan

iTrader: (1)

Geez man, what is wrong with wanting to try something different from the mainstream? Being different is an element of the human spirit. If it wasn't, we'd still all be barefoot, living in caves and clubbin' the ladies over the head with a chunk of wood. I am not saying this CFI deal he is wanting to do is innovative, but it could spark something in him that someday leads to something that is. Then comparing dyno sheets would be petty compared to comparing bank statements. Guess who wins then.

If your having a bad day, no problem. I like the tech boards for the tech, I am just getting tired of the beatings I see people taking on this board for liking the idea of "different." Better is afterall relative to priorities. And if different is priority #1, then a hot CFI is better.

1982TA

iTrader: (1)

This is what I'm talking about. I'm not going to take this seriously as I'm sure you're just joking around, but I don't really care about the dyno data. Like I said, I'm not out to do drag races with this car. I like the car for what it is and I'm not really concerned about what is better than CFI. If I wanted to, I could have bought a GTA with TPI, or I could have got an LT1 Firebird, or an LS1, but I chose the car I have now. Anyone can swap these engines in if they want to get more power but I choose not to. I even thought about swaping in the 301 Turbo from an '80-'81 TA. Why? To be different and I know the potential of the 301T even though it's considered one of the worst engines to come out of GM. After all, it was susposed to be the powerplant of the '82 TA anyway.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

you need a dye grinder and a nice assortment of bits to do porting work. I use a dremel to do the light stuff but you need something a bit heavier-duity for the ammount of metal you'll be removing.

i know it's about V6 stuff, but the how-to's on this site are VERY informative:

http://www.60degreev6.com/modules.ph...ticles&secid=9


I've ported and polished the 882 heads on my 355, as well as the heads on my 3.1 V6 in my Z24.. i've also ported the lower intake and plenum on the 3.1. You would be suprised how much difference porting makes.

kevinc

This isn't the case, no new trails being blazed on this project.


Actually, it was continuous improvement and innovation that brought us to where we are, not just being different.

Playing with CFI is simply finding different ways to live in caves and club ladies over the head.

kdrolt

The same could be said for owning any vintage car that has a carburator, or for that matter using horses in the military.

One viewpoint is narrowminded and the other is not.

BTW why did you bother adding an LS1 and T56 to an outdated chassis like an 82 Camaro?

1982TA

iTrader: (1)

The same thing can be said about playing with carburetors. Obviously your goals are different than what mine are, as are your tastes. I've never used CFI and never seen one work in person. All I know is what I have read and seen in photos. I don't care if I don't have the fastest car or not because like I said before, no matter what engine you have or how fast you think you are there is someone out there that is faster. And really that isn't the issue. I just want to try and make CFI work better than what it did when you bought a new car in '82 and maybe get some more HP out of it. Anyone can bolt a TPI on their car. Big deal, everyone has done it and there is a lot of aftermarket support. How much for CFI?? Next to nothing, so if you can get descent numbers for what CFI is then I am happy because I achieved something that other people wouldn't even bother with. If I can get 270 HP out of a CFI I think that is pretty good considering an LT1 in 93 put out the same HP.

kevinc

Carburetors, unlike CFI, have a broad range of configuration and manifold options.


I'll agree on that point, but I'm not sure we agree on whose is narrowminded.


Not that I need or asked for anyone's help or approval, but I did the swap so I could hit the road course, reel in and pass cars like a prepped BMW M3:

http://www.warpten.com/carpics/pocon...C_blu_3897.jpg

And a Z06:

http://www.warpten.com/carpics/pocon...C_blu_3468.jpg

And hey, another M3:

http://www.warpten.com/carpics/pocono2004/IMG_1062.jpg

And the list goes on.

Tom 400 CFI

Yeah, but you could have done it was a chassis that is WAY more current and technologically advanced. I mean, you put like $10k worth of engine and trans into a car that's worth 2.

Why did you put all that effort into that "poo" old chassis? Struts, flexi-flier structure, Limited wheel selection, crappy brakes. It's just not worth working w/an old chassis like that when a newer one that has fixed all those problems from the start can be had. I just don't get why you would pour all the effort required into an out dated chassis that needs so much to be competative.

Kind of like you don't see why anyone would want to put any effort into an out dated CFI set up. Follow me? Only Difference is, CFI doesn't require much money to improve dramatically. Just some thoughtful time and effort. Can you follow that Kevinc?

kevinc

$4400, but you're not letting any other inconvenient facts stop you.

I don't even have $10K in the entire car including the original purchase price.


Far less net $$ outlay involved to get my SFCs welded in, 1LE brakes, etc. and a set of Goodyear slicks on my extra 16" IROC rims...after which I was kicking some 4th-gen, C5, and BMW M3/M5 butt.

And if you think the 3rd gen chassis design is poo...you're kind of on the wrong board there pard.

Because, unlike the 3rd gen chassis you tried (unsuccessfully) to use as a reference, the CFI has a very finite limit that can't be overcome without overspending an upgrade. Two teeny tiny TBs hosing fuel down a wet plenum designed for teeny tiny intake ports on the heads.

And I didn't even come close to overspending a chassis upgrade bringing my "poo" 3rd gen chassis up to competitive performance.

The "dramatic" CFI improvement still leaves you breathing other guys' exhaust.

(EDIT):
I'm guessing you came to the same practical conclusion when you installed a T56 instead of a T5. I mean, hey, a T5 can be bought cheaper and upgraded and you'd be "different", right?

Tom 400 CFI

No.

But your post above pretty much solidified the exact point I was going for, so thanks. That is, that I sounded about as ignorant talking about your choice of vehicle and it's value, as you do talking ignorantly about CFI!!

I have no idea what you spent on your drivetrain, and I have no idea how much your car's shell it worth. Over all, I'm trying to make the point that I (and otheres here) COULD continue to pig-headedly argue w/you about the worthiness of spending time and money on a 3rd gen for road racing. "So you beat a Z06. what if he did all the work to his car you did on yours?? Huh?, huh?" And back and forth we could go. You bought brakes for your car. The 4th gens come w/them already. The CFI needs to be ported. The TPI comes w/runners that size already. And on and on....back and forth we go...

The point is, on you car YOU'VE DONE IT! So you know. On CFI's I believe I've "done it", been successful, and....I know. You don't quite obviously.

Inconclusion, the intake is quite suitable up to 300 hp w/$100 worth of porting (Tools and gaskets). If you need more than that, you can buy an SY-1 on ebay and that plus the custom lid is still WAY cheaper than any TPI intake out there. So how is that wasting money? Hmm?

The TB's are 48 mm. How is that any worse than TPI 48 mm TB? I bored my own out on a lathe. It cost me ~$26.00 for two new throttle plates. 53 mm, which is more than sufficient. So for around $550, you can have an SY-1 crossram intake, bored TB's and 454 injectors to feed it. This is "crossfire injection" that will support 400+hp. How can you argue w/that? What is wrong with that!?

P.S. I didn't follow your T-5/T-56 line at all. I've had both and like both for different reasons. What do they have to do w/being different, the viability of CFI, or any of this thread for tha matter??

EDIT: In the interest of accuracy, I need to input that the stock CFI TB's are 46 mm. Not the 48 that I posted above. However they still flow plenty for ho up into the high 200's.

1982TA

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys...after trying to figure out what engine I have, I finally found some codes. I found the engine block casting number: 330817.

I looked it up and this is what I got:

Block: Chevy
Year: '73-'80
CID: 400
Low Power:150
High Power:180
Main Caps:2

Still trying to find a VIN. Is this car worth building? It says High Power is only 180 HP. Also it only has 2 bolt main. I know 4 bolt mains are more desirable. If the high is only rated at 180 HP would anything more damage it? At least I know what size engine I have now

Tom 400 CFI

A 400 is always a great block to start off with. That engine's "high" end rating is due to the heads, cam, and intake. Same as any other SBC, those three things will define the power and torque that engine makes.

Ona 400, I understand that 2 bolt mains are actually stronger than 4, but either way, I doubt you'll ever pushe the limits of either style. Same for the crank and rods. 300+ hp w/that engine will be a piece of cake regardless of what induction system you use.

-Tom

kevinc

Agreed.


There's a lot you're not following. I can be enjoying the weather...

Tom 400 CFI

I'm glad you agree you sounded equally ignorant in your serious CFI bashing as I sounded in my ridiculous third gen bashing example. Nice attempt at word twisting, BTW. Good one.

It seems you're just getting personal now, and just plain trying to "Bash". I notice no comment to the original poster about his discovery of having a 400....a discovery that many people woudl be pretty happy about.

82 TA, you might want to try this sight...
http://www.crossfire.homeip.net/cftest/
You'll get input from people who are much more familiar w/ CFI than folks on this site. It's where I got a lot of help as I progressed through the various stages of my car.

-Tom

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

That's it, no track time for neither of ya's until you kiss and make up!

Seriously though, I think that both of you guys are right. If he's building the car to run on the street, and to have a little fun, then Tom's right... Cross Fire Injection is a great system to work with, and will surprise the heck out of many unsuspecting people.

However, if he's looking to get the most out of his 400-SBC, then intake systems such as the HSR, Miniram, LT1 etc.. far supercede it. CFI would be a waste of time, a learning experience, but still a waste of time.

My advice to 1982-TA, just have fun with whatever road you decide to take. Enjoy yourself, and you're hobby.

@ "PooFondue", that was freaking histerical!

Tom 400 CFI

^^ I agree.

-Tom

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Incidently Tom, there's a guy over here that ran an eleven second 1/4 with a naturally aspirated CFI... although he does guard his internal/tuning secrets well. He was booted off of the track due to no roll bar, but he does live in the neighborhood, and a few of us will 'occassionally' catch him on the street.

He'll willingly pop the hood, but he doesn't get into it's specifics. He's definitely running a 350, but I have no idea about it's bore/stroke, nor cam specs. However, I'll be the first to admit that he once roasted my buddies 95 GSX (12 second 1/4's) on the street, pretty badly I might add.

So yes, with the right tuning (and tuner), anything is possible. I myself would choose the HSR over the CFI system any day of the week, but this doesn't change the fact that that particular CFI would rape a ZO6....

1982TA

iTrader: (1)

Now that I know I have a 400 I was looking at some other FI possiblities. I was looking for info about TPI and I came across a site where a guy asked about putting a TPI setup on his 400. Someone said that the redline will max at 4000 rpms and choke the engine. Another guy said that TPI was designed for 305's. I know they made 5.7 TPI setups. Whatsup with that statement.

someone else said it would have a very low effective RPM. I know very little about TPI but back when I had an '86 Grand Prix I was thinking about putting a 350 TPI in it. I have a book on TPI setups that was a help.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

the TPI top end is only good for like 600 CFM or something like that. you can port it out i'm sure, but Edelbrock sells a replacement that is MUCH better..





lol, you guys bickering is too funny.. Here are my reasons for ditching my CFI setup:

1. I wanted to build a roller 355
2. I wanted somewhere near 400 lbs of TQ/400 HP
3. Carbs are more fun
4. when my CFI 305 went.. it really went. she overheated so bad that it started to lock up. I didn't wanna have to mess with that..

More power to ya, i still love the look of the CFI top end. And the cool cowl setup was Sweet! I'd still love to hook that back up..hehe

Tom 400 CFI

That's cool. Sounds like that guy knows what he's doing. There are several folks on the CFI board that are running 12's N/A w/CFI, but I don't think I know of anyone running 11's. I do believe it's possible though, w/a better (cross ram) intake. I agree w/you about the HSR....I'd rather have that too over CFI. A bit spendy for me though.

1982TA, A TPI system will not be significantly better than a CFI system, for power and economy, on a 400. In each of their respective stock forms, they will both completely suck and ruin a healthy 400. They both need bigger runners to augment a decent 400. W/the TPI, however, you'll be spending at least a grand to "fix" it, vs CFI, around $500 for intake, top plate, and TB boring.

kdrolt

Do a search for

Roy Midgley

In the post(s) that appear (probably all mine) you'll find some discussion of the origin of the Crossfire, along with the sources for the info.

In short, I don't think the TPI was designed around the 305 --- it was a fix of the shortcomings of the CFI. Both were designed as Corvette intakes, by the same people at GM, and the use on the 305 engines allowed GM to recover a lot of the development cost while providing "Corvette power" to the 305 on the Fcar platform.

A 400 engine isn't going to rev to unworldly rpms, and the TPI (or CFI for that matter) isn't redlined at 4000. What it means is that in stock form (unported), the engine will not flow additional air for each additional rpm increase --- so the power of the engine will flatten out. If you port either the TPI or the CFI, you can raise the rpm where this happens. If you like torque, both CFI and TPI are good choices... and they will both be torque monsters on a 400. If you need upper rpm power, then there are better choices for intake designs.

GM uses TPI-like intakes on nearly all of their cars now, but they have features within them that overcome many of the shortcomings of the intake hardware designed in the 1980s (CFI, TPI). HTH.

tyrvidar

Crossfire Manifold Porting

Just to show ya how big the diffrence is.

I know this post is a few months old, but it is the most informative of all the searches I have done. I am new and I myself have a CFI 83 Z28. I think I will keep it after reading this for now.

BTW if any of you guys read this, what modifications should I do too the Air intake cover if any? Would it be better to open it up more, seems pretty restrictive.

1982TA

iTrader: (1)

I don't know if you ever been to this site but it's pretty informative, and pretty much the only place to find any good info on the CFI setup:

Crossfire Injection Vault

Also the person who runs the site that you linked in on the Vault alot. If you want to do the mods this is the guy to talk to. Check out the site and do a search...you'll find a lot of stuff

Tom 400 CFI

Already posted above. It IS a great site though.