Well, after saying "It's going to start this weekend" at least 6 times over the last few months, I finally got it started yesterday!! Boy what a day, here is a run down of what we did

* I live in a town house "complex", so basically, I'm working in a parking lot, not a garage, and I have to worry about being too loud for the neighboors. So, since I cant afford exhaust, nor does the car drive right now, I'm screwed. Dude at auto part store said dryer vent and buckets of water will help out. So I bought 2 things of 4" dryer vent and hooked the up to the headers then into the water buckets. Well, as you can see from the image below, the dryer vent got OWNED by the headers. Not only did it start to burn, but it blew apart... Oh well.

The car was not as loud as I thought it was going to be, but then again, we didnt go about 1200 rpm (didnt break in the cam yet, it was too late at night).

* So trying to get it done and ready to fire up, we had problems with the distributor not wanting to go all the way in. Finally after wrestling with it, it went in, but we could not figure out which way the cap went back on, and it's an accel HEI replacment, the manual says "swap the spark plug wires 1 at a time from your original distributor in the same place, and position the new distributor in the same position as your original". Well, since I never had an original to begin with, this was going to be a problem, the damn thing is NOT labeled in anyway. There is a '1' on the inside, but who knows if that means the #1 position or not. So, after a quick look on the net, we made an educated guess. Luckily we were right. We guessed which on was the #1 plug post and followed the chiltons manual on where the rest went. What fun!

* Starting the damn thing was exciting by frustrating, it would start to fire then stop. We primed the carb, tried the throttle, but nothign. Distributor was jumping out of place. Tightened it down and tried again. Same thing. Damn thing was out of gas. Put gas in it and still had same problem. This time after we put gas in, we hit the throttle and it would stay on, but once we let it go it would turn off. The idle screw was not set. Set the screw and it started and ran on it's own this time. Whew! time.

* We had to turn the motor off because we were burning wires on the headers. So I tried to turn the motor off (Keep in mind I have 100% custom wiring I did myself) by turning off the main switch. No good. I tried multiple times, nothing, the motor still ran. Ok, so I pulled off the battery terminals. STILL RAN!!!! The damn motor was running it it's own...possesed!! I had to turn the idle screw all the way down to bog it out, then it turned off. After pondering different things it could be like maybe it was desiling or what ever, I found that the way I had wired the alternator, it was back feeding +12V so the motor was still getting power lol! I followed the wiring diagram exactly. Obviously it was wrong. I will have to figure that out later.

* With the motor working correctly now, we fired it back up. Now we were ready to set the timing. I was planning on 15* to start and I will adjust it later. I think someone recommended 18* but I will have to go back and look. So, we try to set the timing, but the indicator would jump all over the place, so it was basically impossible. Thought maybe we were missing a cylinder, or a plug went out or maybe the coil wasnt getting enough power, whatever. we started to give up, then, my freind, Lance, realized we still had the vacuum advance hooked up!!!! DOH! So we tried again, this time we got it. It sounded mean as hell!

I'm very pleased that after 2 years of working on this project, pulling out the V6, waiting until I had money to do this or get that, making time to work on things, researching info to solve problems I've run into, posting all my questions on TGO, that I have finally fired up my first motor. I started by always wanting one, then I bought one. I didnt even know where the transmission was. I read magazines, web sites, posted on forums and leared what I could from friends. I tore down the entire car and built it back up learning about each process as I went and now I know WAY more than I ever thought (still not enough) and I have a running motor. HAve to wait till I get money to get her on the road. I still have to install the torque converter (sitting in california currently), install speedogears and the drive shaft and some misc brackets and bolts and get her to the dyno.

So now I can say that I have sucesfully done a V6->V8 swap, and I hope I never have to do it again.

 

Nice work congrats !!! v6 to v8 is not a piece of cake to do. We have made a v6 to v8 swap in the summer into my friends camaro but it still isn´t working properly....
By the way did you port your heads???

 

no, no head porting yet. I did however have 1.92/1.60 valves put in and the heads hot tanked, cleaned and milled I think. Debating on porting vs getting vortec heads.

 

That parts guys a freakin idiot. Theres no way dryer vent hose could hold that kind of pressure. Every put your hand over the exhaust pipe when its running? Theres an *** load of mass coming out. Since mass in has to equal mass out.

 

lol, i think it would have been a little better if we hadnt of put the tubes in water so it would free flow out the back. What ever, it isnt that bad.

 

That, right there, is pretty cool. The essence of "Hot Rodding", IMO. Passion has led to success. Nice Job.

I like it, and I'm happy for you. I hope the motor works out well.

-Tom

 

thanks for the support. It feels good to know that all your hard work, time and money does pay off in the end.

 

so you ran it, but didn't run it over 1200RPM? so you didn't break in the cam?

I got the idea, that as soon as you start up a new motor (or new cam at least), you bring it up to over 2k rpm, AS SOON AS PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE, for fear of ruining your cam....
am I wrong? can it wait?


Anyway, good luck, should be pretty quick eh? how on earth did you rebuild a motor in a town house complex??? usually they don't let you work on your car at all...

 

You're right.. as soon as you start it you want to bring the rpm's up and hold em. It can't wait. This splashes alot more oil up on the cam lobes to keep the lifters from eating into them while the parts match into each other. If its a stock cam and he's lucky he may not have a problem. If its an XE grind or anything else aggressive I hope he's really lucky.

If however he still has a roller cam then theres no problem at all. There's no break in for rollers.

 

As soon as I fired my 355 for the first time, I brought it up to 2500-3000 and kept it there. Then It started to overheat. (not really just a bad sensor I got from Napa) So I shut it down. This went on for like 3 more times before I realized it was the temp sensor. But starting it up then shutting it down 3 or 4 times on the new hydraulic flat tappet cam and idleing it for only a few minutes out of the 15 to 20 minutes total, wiped 3 lobes right off the cam.

Comp said it was because I didn't pull the center springs out of my dual springs when I broke it in. They sent me a new cam anyway. But I am more inclined to believe that it was the constant starting and stopping with some idling that did the cam in.

If your cam is a flat tappet, do yourself a favour and break it in before you do any more idling of that engine. Just my

 

umm, i couldnt turn it on and rev it, i had to set the timing first. I had it around 1200 or so prob higher because we had to rev it a few times to keep it started so i'm sure it was around 2-3 k. but only for a second. We had to start it and turn it off a few times to get things right.

I primed the motor ALOT before we started it. Then I turned it over a few times before we started it as well. So, what is the difference between the initial startup and just every other driving situation? Why would it wipe off lobes at idle on first start vs 10k miles from now?

So if I did manage to wipe a lobe, then how do I tell? What will the symptoms be?

 

Yeah, your supposed to start it and get the revs up imediately. Flat tappet cams and lifters actually wear themselfs together at initial startup, during this process they actually remove metal from each other till they are seat. You can set the timing by ear while it's running and set it with a light after break in. The assymbly lube only stays on the cam for a few rotations before it gets wiped off, you need to get oil to the cam as soon as possible. Agrressive cams and stiff valve springs will increase the likelyhood of messing something up. You never said wether or not this was a roller or flat tappet cam. If it's roller your fine, if it's a flat tappet, then listen for the dreaded valve train tick, it may be fine it may not. Change the oil after you break in the cam, cut the filter open and look for metal shavings. If you don't find any and you don't hear any ticking your good to go. It's going to be tuff to hear anything over the headers.

 

it's flat tappet, but i didnt hear any ticking, I was down by the valve covers a lot. I will break in the cam this sunday and then I will change the oil and check for metal. Should I change the oil before I do break in sinc ei've started it up 5-6 times?

 

If it smells like gas from flooding it trying to get it started the first time I would change it. If you got it started without flooding I would leave it.

I set the timing on mine @3000 rpm. I set it around 38* BTDC. I figured after the break in I would set it at idle.

I didn't hear any ticking till I had 10 minuted or so on it. Then it was all down hill. (litteraly) Was completely flat on 3 lobes within 20 minutes.

The oil looked like metalic brown paint. I used a oil filter mount that had no by-pass and a 5 micron screen on top of the filter, this is the only thing that prolly saved the engine from having to be rebuilt again.

As for your lifters being quiet, they are getting oil, but from what I understand, the flats and lobes are lubed from oil that splashes up from the crank and rods. That is why mine were quiet at first then the ticking was very loud.

This is the reason for the high rpm for the break in. To keep the oil splashing up on the cam, and to keep the lifters rotating in the bores.

 

Same here, The first fire it was right up to 2500RPM and i adjusted the timing while i kept the RPMs up. They do say to break it in for a reason and i think you may have just done in your cam or at the least took quite a few years off its life.

 

It didnt smell like it was flooding, there where several reasons it wouldnt start. Well, I dont think I hurt the cam, I will be checking things on sunday and breakig in the cam. I will change the oil before and I will listen for ticking. I'll report back with what I find.

So is there anything else to be able to tell? Ticking and dark oil with flakes? I have a screw in filter adapter from summit with a bypass.

 

Imprt slayer, people on this board, tend to get a little out of hand with "there's only one way to do it", and this fussing about the break-in is a perfect example.

*Yes it's ideal to fire the engine instantly after assembly and bring it to 2000 + RPM HOWEVER:
*The milder the cam and requisite springs, the less critical this is
*If you don't wipe a lobe w/in a day or so, you're fine; you didn't "took quite a few years off its life". It either breaks in w/o issues, or it wipes.
*If you don't hear valve noise, then you're probably fine. Proceed w/cam break-in.

Let's keep a realistic perspective here folks. As I said above, a perfect "insta-fire" -> 2000 RPM is ideal, but the facts of this planet and life are such that that doesn't always play out the way we hope. Things happen and somethimes shutting down/idling/whatever is required. Not ideal, but by no means a guarantee of doom.

Import: Don't let these "dooms dayers" create worry in your head. It sounds to me like everything is still fine, and I would go ahead and finish the cam break-in by the book at this point, then drive and enjoy.

 

thanks tom. Since this is my first time, I dont know what to look for and dont want to buy and install a new cam. The "dooms dayers" where scaring me .

I will report what I find. Going to check cylinder compression, plugs, oil and some other things and I will report back.

 

I think worry, or at least attention to the cam is warranted here. Idling the engine for a few seconds before getting the revs up is no big deal. He said he cranked the engine alot before it fired, then idled it for several minutes. This isn't good. I woulnd' t go tearing the engine down or anything, but I would deffinetely check your valve lash after you break in your cam. If you wiped a couple lobes it'll be evident in the lash, if everything is good, you have no problems.

 

Great point, I will pull valve covers and check the lash.

 

He is giving attention. It's not showing any symptoms so far. He's on the right track. It's going to be hard to "measure" lash on a hydraulic cam.

I installed that same cam about 15 years ago in my 180,000 mile 305. 15 years ago I lacked the experience I have now, and I had a hell of a time starting it. I ground on the starter for probably 1/2 hour before finally getting it to start. Then I idled it while I set the timing. Ideal? No. Did it actually cause any issues at all? No. The car dropped 1 second off it's 1/4 mile time from that single mod alone, and ran on that cam for another 65,000 miles before blowing a head gasket at 245,000 miles. If his cam isn't ticking at the end of the break-in, it'll be fine.

If he "wiped a couple lobes" it'll be extrememly, audibly evident w/o even removing the valve covers.

 

I do not consider myself a "dooms dayer".

Someone who made the mistakes and worked through them successfully is called experienced.

Have a nice day.

 

dooms dayer...




j/k thanks 4 the help

 

You're right, you weren't too negative. I think the difference in your experience vs. his is this:
CompCams 282S solid flat tappet cam 236* @ .050 .528 lift with 1.6 to 1 aluminium roller rockers

compared to his:
Roller tip rockers | 214/224 Summit Cam

 

Experience tells me that the next cam I use will definitely be a roller with a modern profile.

Edit: Oh yea... and not a Comp (actually it wasn't Comps fault, there were other factors not mentioned above that contributed to the flattening of the cam)

 

interesting! I agree that these guys are jumping the gun here. I would not worry about it. there are lots of people who don't break cams in correctly and turn out fine.

 

When I fired my 355 in my S10 up five years ago, it was the first small block I'd assembled. When I fired it at 8pm on a Sunday evening the church next door to my house was just getting out.

I knew the keep the rpm's up for the first 20 minutes from building aircooled VW's with flat tappet cams. The problem was I had massive vacuum leaks, crossed plug wires, and open 3/4 length headers. I couldn't keep it idling anyway, I had flames belching out the headers and paint smoldering off the pipes.

Needless to say maintaining the RPM was impossible. Luckily I had no problems, using a Comp XE268H and Comps springs.

I had parted a '74 Malibu to get the running complete engine to rebuild for the S10, and it had duals with dumps under the car with some 2 1/2" turbo mufflers. That Monday I spent $20 on clamps and flex pipe at Adavance Auto, used the flex and some coat hangers to hang the mufflers under the truck.

Then I could hear the engine, set the timing properly, fix the manifold leaks and tune the carb. I was able to drive the thing to tune it and find a muffler shop to run an actual exhaust on the thing. With open exhaust I could not tune it at all.

What I am saying is it's not that hard to rig some temporary exhaust with inexpensive flex pipe to get the run in done.

 

Ok, I changed the oil yesterday, it was basically spot less. There where tiny tiny specs, no big shiny chunks or even any moderate sized flakes. I checked the oil and inside the filter. I checked the spark plugs, they are PERFECT (I checked them after the break in). I checked for any rockers being unadjusted or a little loose, nothing. I'd say the cam is good to go.

We did the break in without mechanical problem, I did have an issue with my tac, waiting for my new one to arrive. I have a video of how the beast sounds if anyone wants to see it it will be posted in a new thread.

Hope the neighbors dont complain...

 

Cool, cool. Good job on your first major project.

-Tom

 

Thanks man. Check out the video I posted in the other thread.

 

Glad it all worked out for you without killing your cam.