I test drove (for the 1st time) this past weekend a 2001 Ram Air Trans Am Automatic.
I was disappointed. I see now why most have turned to Mustangs. The dash sucks...my wife hates the hump in the passenger floor board. The end of the car is more difficult to determine. The engine is under the dash...difficult to work on...would hate to work on it. The interior seemed cheap at best. The power, acceleration...well...its good, but I was unimpressed. With traction control off it was still unimpressive. It didn't make me think "I gotta have one". I test drove a TTA once, and I instantly had to have one. I didn't get that with the 2001 version...so I won't be buying one. I'll stick with me GTA...and save my money for a TTA

------------------
89 GTA Trans Am L98
Wins: 2 Early 90s Stang GT, 4 wheeler, Chevy Malibu
Losses: New Camaro...bastard

 

I think they're pretty nice inside, never had a problem judging distance either. the LS1 is a different beast, it doesn't creat the bottom end torque that the LT1 does, especially in automatic form. I wouldn't mind picking up a 97 model someday but for now I'll just stick with the cars I have.

------------------
Kyle Osterholt
Okarche, Oklahoma
ASE Master Certified
86 T/A 383 TPI
89 TTA #1002 T-top/Leather
89 TTA #1358 Hardtop/Leather
80 T/A Pace Car
73 Opel GT
73 bronco
2000 Ducati 996 Monoposto

 

The car you drove could have had a 2.73 rear end. Drive a six speed with the 3.42 and you'd be posting how you love it. If not...go buy a mustang and get beat by LS1's.

 

Most newer cars have cheap looking interiors. Im not all that wild about thirgen interiors, either. When you make everything out of plastic, of course it will look cheap... An the engine... well i'd like to see someone change the back four spark plugs.

------------------

1983 Firebird
TH700R4 Auto
Small Block 400
LG4 ECM, Intake, Carb, Distributor, etc.
Soon to be non-computer.
Clarion Head Unit 45X4
2 Pioneer 400W 12" Subs
Third Gen Performance
"A four cylinder is half an engine."
"Ponies can run, but birds can fly..."

[This message has been edited by Ward (edited November 08, 2001).]

 

Yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree with you too. As for the long dash and the hump in the floor, the thirdgen's have that too. Thats something that'll stay until they retool the factory that the cars are made at. When I test drove the camaro I thought that the front end was easier to find than in my camaro and I actually liked the interior more. The seats hugged better when I was cornering and lumbar support is one of the coolest damn things when your bored. As for the engine, I could see how that would be a pain to work on and I would never want to. It looks like you have to remove the engine just to change the plugs. When the prices come down though I'll be buying one.

-=-Mike

 

My GTA seats are no different...My dash is much shorter. Hump is the same (wife hates that too). The interior ergonomics I like better in my GTA.

I am saying that I appreciate the my GTA much more...since I believe the only improvement is engine capability and suspension...but it isn't that much better.
At least I can work on my GTA though.
I don't like Mustangs...I drove one...and performance wise it sucked. But you can work on those easier than the new ones. And the interior is not reminiscent of a sports car to me, but it is better in my opinion than a fourth gen f-body.

I'm not going to buy a mustang. I'm just going to buy the TTA instead. I drove one of those also...and I was amazed. My wife thought I tore it up. I had to tell her that's what fishtailing is. That was punching it at about 30 miles per hour with new tires. The RAM AIR TA I drove had the 3.42 in it. I could tell its top end power could strike fear...but I want the torque. I'll spend my money elsewhere (TTA, my GTA, etc.)

 

Biggest thing I hate about the 4thgens is the dashboard and hood setup. You can't see your hood at all, and the dash is like twice as wide as our already wide thirdgen units. I can't stand not seeing my hood, not because it's hard to park or whatever, but it just adds to the sportscar feeling to have an aggressive looking hood out in front you... Interior wise other than the dash width, I guess I'd go with the 4thgen being better. It has several cup holders, and just generally looks more modern. Not that I don't like the 3rdgen interior setup though (other than the no cupholder thing).

Exterior wise I don't think any current 4thgen model can match a nice 3rdgen Z/IROC/TA's looks. They look like they're proportioned wrong with the way GM did the front and rear ends. The TA manages to look alot better than the Camaro for the 4thgen, mainly because they didn't use that stupid integral spoiler that makes the rear end look bulbous and they don't blend the side view mirrors down into the fenders like the Camaro either. But still, a nice 3rd looks better to me...

Have a brand new looking IROC sitting next to a brand new SS, both having the same excellent LS1/T56 drivetrain and there is no way I'd choose the 4thgen...

------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray

[This message has been edited by Ray87Z (edited November 07, 2001).]

 

well, 3.42 only came with the six speed so i'm assuming that's what you drove. i agree, i own a 94 and work at a dealer so i drive all the different years and models. the fourth gen feels too big and drives as if it's a big car. can't see the hood, dash doesn't need to similate a picnic table, passengers complain about the hump in the floor (doesn't bother me, i only drive), and the stereo is ok but doesn't compare to the mach 460 ford has. yeah, i'd buy the camaro over the mustang, but it's poor design that keeps the camaro from catching the mustang in sales. it outperforms the mustang, but that's why there is an aftermarket. if mustangs are bothered by losing, they just buy more parts and hope they don't come across an equally modified LS1. they are just happy with what they have. hopefully if the camaro returns in 2005 the aztech/avalanche guy has been fired and the camaro will be better designed as well as faster.

 

If the LS1 car was an automatic, it did not have a 3.42 rear axle ratio. If it was an automatic, and had the 'Performance' rear axle ratio, it had a 3.23 gear. If it didn't have the performance axle ratio, it had 2.73 gears. 3.42 gears are only available with a 6 speed. Either way, that car should have felt plenty fast. I've seen them (auto, 3.23 gear, LS1 cars) turn mid to high 13s at the track in completely stock trim. The LS1 just doesn't have that low-end, fast-building, high torque like a TTA does so it feels a bit slower from a SOTP standpoint...... And if that TTA was stock, it is likely slower than that automatic LS1 car - TTAs turned high 13s in stock trim...... But the turboed car will feel much quicker even if it isn't since it builds a lot more low end torque when the boost comes....

------------------
1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

 

That's what was talking about earlier. The auto LS1 cars FEEL a little less quick than some L98 cars I have been in. The standard 2.73 rear doesnt help. Then again, EVERY six speed car that I have been in has tossed me back a lot more than the auto cars. I'd say the six speed doesnt make the car that much faster, but it feels WAY faster.

peace

 

I had a 2000 Z28 for a short while For that short time period it was the awsome. And yes it was a 6 speed. Sure did love how mustangs would try to do their rolling starts and i'd just eat them like mashed patatoes at the sizzler. (Note: That didn't last long cause i was a little intimidated by a 6 speed.)

------------------
89 IROC-Z 350 TPI

-Flowmaster Catback
-Performance Resource Chip
-700R4 (Rebuilt) Too much done to actually list
-K&N Airfilters
-Ported Plenum
-2.77 Gears (not much to brag about but eh, its there)
-MSD 8.5 mm plug wires
-Gutted cat
-!AIR
-Gutted Air Boxes

 

The TTA was 13.5 claimed by GM. They have advertised no F-body faster until the 2001 Firehawk. The Ram Airs and SS are not faster than the TTA, sure maybe your friend of a friend of a friend has on that turned a 12.9 or something all stock, but on average the TTAs are still faster.
Oh and as for the LS! not having any low torque, gee where you guys been living. IT has more than a LT1 and almost as much as a L98... reason being is because the runners are a shorter design and a redesigned plenum to allow for tunning of the Runners just like the TPI. THough they are shorter than a TPi, but much longer than a LT1. This and the all aluminum engine is what makes them killer fast. They have the entire Intake Tuned for the system. Its what the TPI should have been.

------------------
89 Trans Am Turbo 3.8L All stock 43,000 miles #1053 of 1555

Past Thirdgen:
86 Trans Am w/ built 355TPI with SLP goodies and too much other stuff to List. One sweet *** car, wish I would have had a good enough Job to pay insurance on three cars so I could keep it, but for a 89 Turbo Trans Am w/ Low miles, I think I made the right choice!

 

Everywhere you go you read people saying the LT1 has more torque, blah, blah. But looking at the dyno sheets on the LS1 it's not like it has none. At the rears it puts down 300+ ft-lbs through just about the whole damn dyno, including down at 2500 rpm. Looking at the dyno readout of a LT1 it is also making right smack dab at 300 ft-lbs at 2500 rpm. I'm not seeing the better lowend torque... If the LT1 somehow did out torque the LS1 below 2500 rpm, who cares, you're not below that rpm for but a split second in the entire run...

I've ridden in my best friend's old car LT1 (A4, 3.23s) car alot, then he upgraded to a 98Z, which also had the A4 and 3.23s. That LS1 makes such a massive difference all around that it wasn't even funny. At no rpm point or driving circumstance did the LT1 even feel equal to the LS1 to me, no chance at "feeling faster"... At most points they weren't even in the same league if you ask me.

------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray

[This message has been edited by Ray87Z (edited November 08, 2001).]

 

It's really funny how it just happens to be a TTA owner that claims the TTA to have a faster 1/4 mile time than what I have seen personally at the track come out of a bone stock TTA (Air filter and muffler, pretty close to stock, and turned 13.70s all day. Yes, he know's how to drive turbo cars. He had a mid 12 second T-type before that car....). I have yet to see solid proof of this 13.5 at 101 run that a bone stock TTA ran - in full street trim. I've seen plenty of 13.70 to 14.20 runs that stock TTAs have turned. But what exactly do you call 'stock' on a TTA anyways . Anyways, I'm not bashing TTAs - I agree that they are the baddest thirdgens ever and I will own one when the funds are available ... But lets not get too crazy here folks .....

As for the LS1 comparo deal; I only compared the LS1 to the TTAs power band. I agree that an LS1 will beat out an LT1 pretty much throughout the entire rpm range. And LS1s do make a lot of torque - but don't come anywhere near the underrated stock 340 ft lbs (closer to 400 ft lbs if you ask me, and I've seen dyno runs that calculated out to around 385 ft lb at the crank, bone stock) of the TTAs engine.... And it makes that much torque at far less than full boost pressure....

------------------
1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

 

I stand corrected on the 3.42s. It was a 01' RAM AIR TA...Did they come with 2.73's???

Not wanting to start arguing over 1/4 times...because there are many variables...but a TTA stock can do 12s with proper tuning, as I am sure some LS1s can too. But the TTA I drove made me disoriented when I wasn't ready for what happened when I slammed the pedal down at 3o mph. It basically got away form me. My wife thought we were going to take off or something. She actually thought I tore something up. She had never experienced fishtailing quite like that. I was hoping the LS1 TA would give that same feel. But I couldn't make it happen. Maybe I should have power braked it, or maybe it did come with 2.73s. I COULD tell that once the revs were up, it would GO...
But for less money I feel my 3rd gen can be much better than a new TA, or I can just buy a TTA...tune it up good and still not spend as much and have a better interior and ride.

Just my thoughts

 

Hey **** you . I am not claiming ****. I am streictly stating what the manufacture staes. I personally dont know what my Bone stock one will run and not all of them will run the same.
No I dont think its weird that a TTA owner can shed light on the facts of the cars abilities. I should know more than someone who doesnt own one.
POick up any liturature from GM on the TTA, IT STATES 13.5 end of discussion. Now as far as magazine test I have seen 13.8 to 13.1 so you figure it out
Dont hate the racer.... hate the race LOL

------------------
89 Trans Am Turbo 3.8L All stock 43,000 miles #1053 of 1555

Past Thirdgen:
86 Trans Am w/ built 355TPI with SLP goodies and too much other stuff to List. One sweet *** car, wish I would have had a good enough Job to pay insurance on three cars so I could keep it, but for a 89 Turbo Trans Am w/ Low miles, I think I made the right choice!

 

whoa, what ever happened to the love on the board....

I think I'll sell my camaro and get me a honda now...

Then I'll drop an LT1 in it and burn TTA's all day! Oh *** , front wheel drive, I could cruise the parking lot of the local high school and pick up some 12 year olds. MMMM... jail, good times...

I still don't get how people like the 3rd gen styles over the new 4th gens, I like that nice wide low stance. The pissed off looking grill and headlights on the camaro and the damn nostrils on the firebirds. If you didn't crap yourself just from intimidation the first time one of those firebirds pulled up behind you then you were in the passenger seat...

-=-Mike

------------------
1989 RS.. 355, Hypereutectic pistons, double roller cam, double roller timing chain, accel wires, blue streak cap and rotor, rapidfire plugs, chevy caprice 350 chip, 200* fan switch, 3 angle valve job, 3 inch cat-back exhaust, 3 core radiator, 3.73 gearing with POSI.

 

After the TTA gets some mods you wont anymore.

THe early 4th gen Camaros look like a GEO storm on steroids

 

The LS1 is not lacking in torque at all. The automatic certainly hurt it, but still. I have spent plenty of time behind the wheel of a 6-speed 98 Z28 and they are very fast in stock form. Plus, they rev up to 6000 making power, something most all of our cars can only dream about.

Sorry branz28, but what kind of car guy are you if you can't drive a stick shift??

I like the looks of the 91-92 firebirds better than the 4th gens, and all the camaros that looked like 92 are only maybe a little bit beneath the looks of the fourth gens. I do think their hoods are too short. I also hate not being able to see the hood. I guess that is a priviledge reserved for corvette drivers. Ummm, corvette. My dad traded in his older vette on a 2001 Z06. Oh my *** that car is awesome--1.0 lateral G's! When I'm home from school, I don't get to drive it, but I have ridden in it, and that car really rides like it on rails! Like the looks of my 91 formula WS6 better, though, seriously.

[This message has been edited by cort351w (edited November 09, 2001).]

 

Hey LittleGTA,
I know what you are saying man. Why go drop 30,000 on a new TA or SS when you could make a thirdgen perform right along side them for much less money and still have no car payment/less insurance. I think there are plenty of guys here who could at least give an LS1 a run. Just a thought for all thinking of buying a new (last) Fbody.

 

For the reason of you have to buid the thirdgen, if you do similar work to the new one it will kick so much more A$$. You will be the original owner and will know everythign about your car. There is nothing like that "new" car smell.
Lets face ti chick who know no better will always like the newer car better. It makes you look like you have more money when in all truth you just have less do to the payment.


------------------
89 Trans Am Turbo 3.8L All stock 43,000 miles #1053 of 1555

Past Thirdgen:
86 Trans Am w/ built 355TPI with SLP goodies and too much other stuff to List. One sweet *** car, wish I would have had a good enough Job to pay insurance on three cars so I could keep it, but for a 89 Turbo Trans Am w/ Low miles, I think I made the right choice!

 

I drove a 96 firebird or TA 6 speed LT1 with a variety of bolt on's. I wasent impressed by the bottem end power! I pulled great at the top of a gear but the skip shift BS takes alot away.
I would rater have a thirdgen or 1st.
SSC

 

OMFG lmao I have to agree with kyle... My buddy has a geo Storm (Yes we ALL laugh at him) and I swear the 4th gens do look like a geo storm on steroids with a little crack mixed in. The interiors, to me anyways, kick our third gens A$$e$, but I will never drive a 4th gen now. Third gens just look better, It looks like a sports car! Not a big Oval on wheels (speaking specifically of Camaros) My buddy had a 94 Z28 that pulled like a ****, it would take off like you wouldnt believe, but hell I'll drop an LT1 in my convertible than well see whats up lol

<---------------- waits for the flames

lol later guys


------------------
1988 Camaro SC Convert!
'95 Black power leather Z28 seats
MSD 6al
8.8 mm custom made wires
MSD hi po coil
MSD hi po distributer
K&N Open element 14x3
more coming soon!

 

I'm just messin with ya.. It's all good here. I love TTAs I just wanted to shed some light on the LS1. But I know a fair share about TTAs as well (don't own one yet though .....grrrrr). And I have seen them perform a little below what GM states, and everyone else states, in true bone-stock form. Just stating the facts here on what I have seen with my own eyes. But one of my friends owns one and gives me a whoopin once in a while. I've helped him do a few things on it here and there so I am familiar with them and all of their glory as he recites the performance numbers on it constantly while we are working..... rofl... Something about you TTA owners......

Oh yes..... and I give them more than just a run usually..


------------------
1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

 

No joke! I would so love to have a first gen. Of course I don't have the time to restore it right now (college actually takes up a lot of time). Maybe some day...

 

hey Ray87 Who need s cupholders man?