Ok, I've got a 305 laying in the shop back home, I'd like to do something with it that will make some power. I know that you can't make a stroker out of a 305, but what can I do? I would like to stay away from hooking up nitrous. I would consider turbo's but I have a serious lack of turbos.

What are your ideas regarding this? Where can I get some power from the little mouse?

Thanks,
Mike

------------------
1989 RS.. 355, Hypereutectic pistons, double roller cam, double roller timing chain, accel wires, blue streak cap and rotor, rapidfire plugs, chevy caprice 350 chip, 200* fan switch, 3 angle valve job, 3 inch cat-back exhaust, 3 core radiator, 3.73 gearing with POSI.

 

You can infact stroke the 305. I believe it gives you 334. Power house make a kit that has everything you need. I believe their website is www.enginekits.com The kit is around $500 or so. If you do a search you'll find more on it as there are a few out thre who have been working on one.

Robert

 

Yep, you can stroke it. What are you willing to spend? Also remember making the engine lighter is just as good as HP. Do you want FI or carburetor? FI will give you better mpg, but will cost a little more. Get aluminum heads, sorry I don't know specifics about heads. Get a good exhaust system, SLP makes the best headers but are very costly. I would suggest the Hooker cat-back.

------------------
2 Tickets to game= $250
Gas= $20
Sitting 20ft. from MJ= Priceless
'86 IROC T-TOPS, TINTED WINDOWS, BRAKE LIGHT BLACKOUTS
GM GOODWRENCH 350
EDELBROCK HEADERS Hooker CatBack
EDELBROCK 600CFM CARB.
KN AIRFILTER
ACCEL HEI DISTRIBUTOR
160* Stat, just switched to 180* b/c of winter coming and going to college in the mts.
3:73 Posi Rebuilt 700R4
B&M Megashifter, 5" Autometer Tach w/shift lite

 

How about 305cu.in/387hp with carb. can post details if you want?

 

It'll probably be carbureted, I'm sick of messing with these computers and stuff. I'd be all about a 387 hp 305, definatly send some details.

I also didn't know that you could stroke the 305, I always just thought it was a long stroke crank in a short stroke block, I'll have to check out the stroker kit too... [edit]I just looked at the stroker kit, anyone know what that comes with?[edit]

Give me a lot more info on what ever you guys are doing. I don't have a body or anything yet, just the full block. I'm thinking that in a little car this'll be a bad little engine...

Thanks guys,
Mike

[This message has been edited by burntblues (edited November 26, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by burntblues (edited November 26, 2001).]

 

Ez i'd like to hear more about the 305 if you can post more about it plz.

 

The combo in my sig is sweet, smog legal. You might not need to worry about smog, assume you won't go with computer controls, but otherwise the modifications would make an easy-to-drive but have-some-bite power plant.

Mechanical q-jet or other mechanical carb, vacuum/mechanical advance distributor, long-tube headers - you're ready to go.

------------------
82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R4, 2300 stall TC. Ported World 305 heads, Crane PowerMax 2050 cam. ZZ3/4 intake, oil pump, pan & baffle. Accel HEI SuperCoil & module. Hooker 2055 headers, 3" Catco cat & 3" catback w/dual-opposite Flowmaster 80. 2.93 limited slip. Spohn SFCs waiting to be installed. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily year-round driver. Best ET, speed TBD...
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. '66 396, 9.7:1 forged TRWs, Weiand Action+, Holley 750VS w/4150 conversion, GK 270 cam, Magnum rockers, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" Hedders & 3" Warlocks, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, MegaShifter, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Idles smooth @ 700 RPM in D. Best 15.02/95.06 @ 5800' Bandimere (corrected 13.93/102.4 @ sea level).

[This message has been edited by five7kid (edited December 04, 2001).]

 

I'll just say one thing - compression. It is all about compression. Get a good flowing intake and aluminum heads, but shave the deck and put a set of high compression pistons in it. Go with the stroker kit, too. If you can find a way to make a streetable(if that's what you're looking for) high-compression motor, you will have a great motor. Yeah, displacement is good, but compression is too. I have a buddy with a 1960 Studebaker wagon with the original 6-cylinder in it. He has built it up to be a semi-streetable high-compression motor and he has run 12.5 in the quarter. Hell, when my 305 goes out, you better believe that I'm going to be doing the same thing as you. Good luck!

------------------
1975 Firebird - Pontiac 350, TH350, 27k original miles, rustbucket, ongoing resto project

1992 Firebird - 305 TBI, 700R4, sport appearance package, t-tops, flaming red, 89k miles, Weiand 360 air cleaner assembly, CAT Power Engine Parts race underdrive pulleys, more to come....

 

What do you mean by Stroke? It's not bore ing.. Hmmm.

thanks

This is what is included in the 305 to 335 stroker Kit. I wrote an email and got a very fast responce. For $599
the 305 kit includes a new 335 stroker crank,rod/main bearings,rings,k.b.
hyper. pistons,con rods.

Also what is the k.b. Hyper?

Thanks again!

------------------
92 Camaro 305 TBI Automatic
https://www.thirdgen.org/rides/index...ew&rideid=6100

[This message has been edited by 92Camaro305TBI (edited November 27, 2001).]

 

75/92: I would like to keep the engine somewhat streetable, I figure that if I can drop it into a small car (maybe do something with a cavalier) that it'll motor even with a 9.5 compression ratio. I think the killer will be the heads that I go with. Obviously the stock ones are horrible, I heard that the torquer heads are pretty good though.

What would I use on the stroker kit for a carburetor. I would assume that a 750cfm is probably going to be to big?


92camaro, The block will have to be bored out to, probably .30 over. One of the cylinders has a really bad ridge in it up top. The stroke kit though instead of increasing the volume by the circumfrence of the cylinder will increase it by the height that the cylinder travels.

-=-Mike

 

So by stroking and boring the motor You get higher compression and hp as well as other things.

But you do have to Bore the 305 before stroking it Right.

Thanks

------------------
92 Camaro 305 TBI Automatic
https://www.thirdgen.org/rides/index...ew&rideid=6100

 

Heads are hard to find for a 305 because of valve sizes. L98 aluminum heads are probably the best after some port work. With aluminum heads you could probably run 10-10.5 to 1 compression without too much trouble (considering stock is 9.x w/iron heads). Carb would be much cheaper and easier than any efi. I say go carb, get ported L98 heads, shave em down a little, toss in a better cam, and if you get greedy nitrous can be fun. Keep in mind that a stroker kit needs block work to clear same as a 350. You should save the money you would spend on the kit/machine work and buy more goodies for the 305. Turbo setups are damn expensive, or custom but a supercharger would be nice. Look at willie and his 305. That thing cooks!

 

Boring an engine means you grind away at some of the cylinder walls, giving it a slightly bigger displacement. (More volume in the cylinders now.)

When you stroke an engine, you take the crankshaft from a bigger engine and stick it in yours. The bigger crankshaft has a longer stroke, and the pistons travel farther. This increases torque, but lowers the maximum RPM's the engine can turn. Destroking the engine is the opposite -- putting a smaller crank in your engine, which allows it to rev higher. Imagine a 1-foot ratchet, and think of it as your crankshaft. You're going to be the piston pushing on the very outer edge of it. Now, if you get a 2' ratchet (making it longer, or the same as stroking the engine) you can put a lot more torque into your pushes. If you get a shorter ratchet (destroking), you can't push nearly as hard, but you can turn it a lot faster.

 

So would stroking an 305 be worth it?

 

In order to get the 335 out of the 305 you have to bore it 30 over and add the long stroke crank. The crank strokes the same as the 400 and 383 stroker kits but this is NOT the same crank used in a 383 kit. I believe that the 305 stroker crank is ballanced differently for the lighter pistons.

Also, K.B. hyper is just Keith Black hyperutectic pistons.

You'll get a **** load of torque from that little mortor too. As for carb etc, the best bet is to phone powerhouse and see what they say.

Regards

Rob

[This message has been edited by RMK (edited November 27, 2001).]

 

Originally posted by E-Z Rollin:

[/QUOTE]
How about 305cu.in/387hp with carb. can post details if you want?[/B][/QUOTE]

Let's hear it


------------------
91 RS 5.0 TBI....LT4 cam....Edelbrock headers....3"Dynomax exhaust....5spd.... 3.08.....Ultimate tbi....afpr...ZR 255-50's...Koni's

 

get soem forged rods, good pistons, Vortec Victor Jr intake, crazy cam, rev it to the moon, run 12s

------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6

305, TBI, 700R4, P.A.W. 14x3 open element with K&N, Milodon 160* thermo, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips, Hooker 1-5/8" 50 state legal headers, Dynomax 3" I pipe (PN 44063 and 43248)
Super GRK_Taz World
F-Body Dual Exaust
EFI & Intake Options

 

OK,this is from an article in CHP Dec. 1993. A 305 cu. in. sbc bored .030 over with flat top TRW's and moly rings. The crank was .010/.010 and recond. rods were used. An AFR cam with .460/.470 lift, duration 218/223 @ .050, lobe center 110 drgs. and 1.6 stamped steel rockers. A Holley 650 dp.carb on an Edelbrock RPM manifold,15/8 headers,36 drg. total ign.timing. AFR heads,190cc's with shaved to get 58cc chamber and valves cut to 1.99/1.55 ,9:1 comp. ratio[would depend on gasket thickness] the carb was jetted 60/62 and was still rich. Power was 387@6000rpm's and 367 lb ft torque @ 4000 rpm's.Nothing radical except the heads,this is a big head for a 305 but that's what it takes to make horsepower.

 

just wondering if anyone else had ideas about making this a powerful mouse??

Remember, I don't want to use NOS..

Thanks, MIke

 

Yep, and the hp is very close to what the 69 Z-28 302DZ motor put out, not bad at all.
While injection is nice, the limit on how large a bumpstick can be used, gives the cheaper to build carb motor the advantage in the HP per $ arena!

 

SO has anyone actually added up the prices of all the stuff in that 387 HP 305 buildup?

Do that first. Then add up the prices of everything it would take to build a 387 HP 350.

If you can do that 387 HP 305 for any less than $500 above the 387 HP 350 even including buying the 350 core, I'll eat it.

Also take note of the RPM that they got that HP at. How many times do you think that motor is going to do that before you have to spend even more money?

Bottom line: a free 305 is more expensive to make that kind of power with, than a 350 you have to pay for.

------------------
"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

It wasn't my intention to compare a 305 to a 350, a 305 doesn't have the potential of a 350,but if you have one already and only need a certain amount of hp a good set of heads like L98 alum.ported and a good cam about 216 or 218 duration with 454 to 460 lift might get you 350hp.

 

Yeah, I've already got a 350 in my car, but I've got a 305 block in the garage that isnt doing anything. If I put it in a smaller car than the 3rd gen it can be a mean a$$ little machine. Obviously, the 305 is a weaker motor, but thats part of the fun of this project is attempting to get some power from it without the help of nitrous or blowers or turbos...

E-Z,
Do you think that the L98 aluminum heads will work well with the 305? isn't that a 350 motor?

Taz, what intake did you find worked well for your formula, my 355 is gonna get an intake and some heads soon...



[This message has been edited by burntblues (edited December 04, 2001).]

 

Don't bother with L98 aluminum heads. Go with World S/R Torquer 305s instead.

3 reasons:

Ports not as good as the Worlds. Need porting to get anything decent out of them (so do the Worlds, but put your work into something that returns for you. Read on...).

Chambers in the Worlds better for 305s than the Vette heads.

Cast iron makes more power than aluminum, all else being equal. Sure, aluminum weighs less, and you have to take that into consideration, but how much less power does it take to lose a 100 lb weight advantage?

Before you spend a dime on that 305, RB has a point. Especially if you are considering a 334 stroker. That $599 does NOT include the externally balanced flex plate and harmonic damper you need, nor the starter that will be different than what the 305 has now. And, 305 short blocks can take quite a bit of abuse if half-way maintained, so boring shouldn't be considered a necessity. Finally, "free" can end up costing you a lot of money - seriously consider a 350 (sell the 305 or trade it for a 350 core if you need to), a much better idea bang-for-bucks wise when you start spending money at a machine shop.

[This message has been edited by five7kid (edited December 04, 2001).]

 

I was thinking more along the lines of the World heads. I found a nice set on EBay that has already been ported and polished by a shop.

I'm not concerned with the starter having to be different since the block doesn't have a starter anyways. I don't know if I totally agree with that logic anyways, when I installed my 355 the 305 starter worked fine in that application. This is simply a toy motor anyways, I already have a 355 in my car, this will be going into a smaller, lighter car. If you do not recommend going with the stroker kit, what do you recommend? The reason that I don't want to hear about a 355 is because I've already got one and the 305 is simply going to be a project motor. I think that there is a great deal of power that can be had from a 305 if it is done right. I thought that more people on this board would have had knowledge of what to do. Pull and replace isn't any fun compared to working on something challenging. Also, my 355 will run rings around most other 355's, but most 305's won't. If I can get a 305 to beat out a 355, even if it is in a smaller lighter car, thats still something that should make people crap themselves.

-=-Mike

 

Let's pluck a number out of the air, and assume that we can build a 1 HP / cu in SBC for $2500:

305 economics: $2500 = 305 HP
350 economics: $2500 = 350 HP

Somebody help me out here, I'm really struggling with this... maybe I better go consult my financial adviser.

Or, let's look at it a different way:

305 350 HP = $3500 @ 6500 RPM
350 350 HP = $2500 @ 5500 RPM

Which one is going to last longer and be more practical on the street, and do it for less money? I'm still struggling...

I'm not saying that a 305 is a bad motor at all, or any of that. Quite simply, all I'm trying to communicate to you, is that every dollar you spend, goes exactly 350/305 times (that would be about 115%) as far or as fast if you spend it on a 350, compared to spending it on a 305. Now I don't know about you, but I like to get the maximum possible value out of every dollar I spend, because I don't have an unlimited supply of them; so any time I can get a bigger "multiplier" on the received value of my money, I'm always open to the suggestion. So if I can spend $1 on a 305 and get $1 of speed, that's cool; but if I can spend $1 on a 350 and get $1.15 of speed, I consider it a no-brainer. Or, I can get the same $1 of speed out of a 350 for 87¢.

Or, let's look at it yet another way: put is a dollar value (in your own dollars) on people crapping themselves maybe; and put a like negative dollar value on getting beat by someone who did the exact same thing you did, except they did it to a bigger motor. Will your "account" have a positive balance at the end of the day?

You've already done the "pull" part. All you have to do is one extra "replace" step. I would not recommend putting a stroker kit in a 305 for all of the above reasons; I would recommend putting a "boring kit" in it instead: a different block casting.

------------------
"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

The stroker starter will be different from the stock starter because the stroker flexplate will be 168 tooth.

Like I said earlier, if you make the mods to your 305 that I did to mine, but use non-CC carb & distributor and go with long-tube headers, you will have one good-running 305. You may want to consider a Performer RPM or Weiand Stealth manifold and a Demon carb, 1.6 roller rockers. You could use a non-computer friendly cam with less lobe seperation for better high-end power.

Put the engine in a Vega or Monza. They're light, can take a V8 ('76 Vega had the same sub-frame and tranny tunnel as the Monzas). Subframe connectors highly recommended.

I'll repost my sig so you don't have to scroll all the way back to my other post that had it.

------------------
82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R4, 2300 stall TC. Ported World 305 heads, Crane PowerMax 2050 cam. ZZ3/4 intake, oil pump, pan & baffle. Accel HEI SuperCoil & module. Hooker 2055 headers, 3" Catco cat & 3" catback w/dual-opposite Flowmaster 80. 2.93 limited slip. Spohn SFCs waiting to be installed. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily year-round driver. Best ET, speed TBD...
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. '66 396, 9.7:1 forged TRWs, Weiand Action+, Holley 750VS w/4150 conversion, GK 270 cam, Magnum rockers, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" Hedders & 3" Warlocks, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, MegaShifter, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Idles smooth @ 700 RPM in D. Best 15.02/95.06 @ 5800' Bandimere (corrected 13.93/102.4 @ sea level).

[This message has been edited by five7kid (edited December 05, 2001).]

 

ok, this is apparently difficult.

I'VE GOT THE 305 AND HAVE DECIDED TO SCREW AROUND WITH IT. I DON'T CARE IF IT IS THE BIGGEST BADDEST BEAST IN THE WORLD. IF I DID THEN I WOULD JUST HOOK NITROUS INTO MY 355.

ALL I WANT ARE IDEAS ON GETTING A STRONG 305. IF A 305 COULD MAGICALLY TURN INTO A 350 THAT WOULD BE LOGICAL, BUT IT DOESN'T. I AM NOT INTERESTED IN SELLING THE MOTOR FOR A 350, I'VE GOT A 350.

THIS IS NOT A 350 V 305 DEBATE. IT IS SIMPLY A WHAT CAN I DO TO GET MORE POWER OUT OF A 305. I ALREADY UNDERSTAND THAT A 350 IS MORE POWERFUL!!!

My recommendations to most people would be to buy a 350 instead of a 305, but I am looking to do something different and with the 305 being a neglected platform I think that this would be the perfect way to do it. It sounds as if the stroker kit may be a bad idea, so what else is there? We've heard that with a 218/223 cam and some good compression that you can get some thump from it. What do others have to say about this? Any other ideas? Do people agree that the World product heads would be best?

[This message has been edited by burntblues (edited December 05, 2001).]

 

my combo is pretty good and i like you thouhgt that being different is nice sometimes. last say superchevy was considering putting your 305 on their cover, but it was in cometionin with a 350. you both had about the same hp, 1/4 et, same detailling work, and both your cars were beautiful. i would bet 100$ they would choose the 305. why fallow the crowd if you can start your own. and when your done building the 305 e-mail me, if i havent dropped in the blown383 yeat, we can go up to epping and show people what 305's can do

------------------
90 RS 305 tbi, 4 3/4" cowl Hood, Edelbrock TES headers, Flowmaster exhaust, Crane roller cam, comp roller rockers, vortec heads/intake, ported tbi, w/new injectors, MSD probillet Distributer/ coil, 1 inch tbi spacer, air foil, 14x4 k&n flat base air cleaner, Rebuilt 700r4 w/ B&M shift kit, B&M Megashifter, 3.23 posi, 2 12 RF's with mtx amp, top of line alpine cd player,autometer phantom gauges, soon to have 91-92 gfx, z-28 wing, new paintjob, rims, all new suspension, and new inteior

 

If you can find a Jan 2002 issue of Super Chevy, they've got a couple of cool combos for the 305 block.

The 305 suffers from a bad bore/stroke ratio. Well they though, "what the hell. We'll put a shorter stroke in it."

You would have a cool little, high RPM motor. They calculated one that they bored .030" over, then put in a 3.00" crank from a '94 265cid. The total displacement after the bore is 267cid. Much better than the 267 they made 79-82. That's of course if the block you now have is a 1pc rear main.

If you got a 2 pc. rear main then you can use a 262 crank that was offered '75-'76 which has a 3.1" stroke. That would yield 276 cid. Either of those cranks have the same size rod and crank journals that the 305 has. So they would require no machining.

If you put a solid cam, high rise intake, and even just 1 5/8" headers on it (plus you could easily get away with a Holley 600 cfm carb) you would have a 7000 RPM motor. And the mains could handle short periods of that RPM due to less torque. This combo would have very little. After all torque is what breaks main caps in a block, not HP.

Besides you'd be putting out about 350-380HP but at like 6-7 grand!!!!! That would be cool as hell.

You have to get custom pistons though. The compression height is kinda odd. But Super Chevy figured out what you need, so all you gotta do is call a piston manufacture and have them made. And you'd have to buy new ones anyway if you had the block bored.

If you wanted a little more torque, they have one they put together with a late 327 or a 307 crank that has a 3.25" crank.

Just an idea. If you can't find the mag. let me know and I'll give you all the info from it.

AJ



[This message has been edited by AJ_92RS (edited December 05, 2001).]

 

hmm... I'll have to look that stuff up, I'm sure I've got the issues laying around here somewhere, or at school.

The 305 may not be done until spring, I'm in NC and will only be able to work on it while i'm home. Christmas break is going to involve getting the block bored and then, if I decide on the stroker, I'll do all of the machining. The time will also allow me to scrounge up a body to put it in and lighten that up a little bit.

I agree with killer that in these magazines your gonna start to see more 305 buildups since the blocks are literally just laying around for the picking...

I've never been to epping, we always go to Lebanon Valley, how is epping?

If I remember right, its a one piece main seal. The block had a solid cam setup, so instead of finding all of the roller cam materials we'd probably do that again too. You don't think that the 600 cfm carb would be too big for it?

What do you think it would need for pistons? Forged? As long as its a .30 over piston for the 305 it shouldn't be too bad, its just a matter of finding one tall enough I would assume..

-=-Mike

 

Evidently some people aren't reading the post carefully enough.NO, the 305 does'nt have the potential of a 350.Now ,as for L98 Heads,John Lingenfelter made a 440 hp/383 with ported vette heads so I guess that shows what can be done with a little porting.L98 heads are fairly cheap around here[used]. And yes they work well on a 305 because they have 58cc chambers,just use a 350 head gasket with them,with the smallest bore size as possible.

 

I built a 305 for my El Camino. It really surprised me when I finished and got it rolling. It also surprises my buddy Pete in his new Cobra. I couldn't beat him but he didn't leave me. And that's with highway gears! I also can get up to 20 miles to the gallon if I drive it 50mph.(but who can!)

Here's what I did:
1978 305 .030over
completely flat top pistons
327 crank
double roller
300HP cam(old 327 cam)194/204 .4??
1978 redone 305 heads(not ported)
.015" GM shim(head gasket)
10.5:1 compression(it runs fine on street gas)(I've had some knocking)
80's Z28 aluminum intake
rebuilt Quadrajet(I love the bog sound)
all Accel ignition parts
Flowtech shorty headers with true 2" duals
glasspacks(no comments please! LOL!)
I added Catco converters to keep it quieter but it robbed about 10-15HP
2000 stall speed(mistake, should have left stock!)
350 Turbo with shift kit

I think I can improve with an Airgap and a new 600 Edelbrock carb, take my converters back off, and I haven't played around with timing at all. I pulled a 350 to put this motor in becuase it was cheaper to build than a 350. Here's the reasons I went with the 305:

1) paid $350 for completely rebuilt shortblock by Art Badgley(327 crank, flattops, double chain, cam). I paid $300 for a completely rebuilt set of 305 heads, they might not be all out race but they are new!
2) this allowed me to spend more on making everything brand new
3) I can get 20MPG, my V6 S10 Blazer only gets 17!
4) reasonable power for the street. I beat almost everything I race. When is the last time you seen a 12 second car cruising to the store besides on Friday night.
5) it never stops rumbling and for an old rusty car, I get alot of looks. The only car I got more looks in was my Corvette.
6) it allowed me to save my 350 for something good. I once built a 355, 292 Comp cam. Now that motor could sing, lots of power.
7) I have two projects going all the time( 78 El Camino, 79 Monte Carlo). I have to compromise with money for both.
8) It's a daily driver--EVERYDAY! We even used it to pick up my Wife's 95 Trans Am on a couple of occasions.

Alot of guys say a 305 is useless, but I drive a lot of miles everyday in my 305 and can rarley find a race. I think most people have projects in their garage--I drive mine! The most races I'll find are soccer moms in 300hp four doors(fast too!).

There's a guy in Madison, Illinois that runs 12's on a 305 in a wagon! Probably beefed up to the max but still ruins most people's theory on 305's.

If I want real power, I have a built 396 in my garage just begging for something. But I know that it will rip out everything under the car and right now I can't afford run 11's or 12's.

I would make a list of all the things you would want out of this motor and it's honest intended use, weigh that with everyone's experienced opinion, and see if the cost is worth want you want. In my case it was.