Simple question, i know more or less what the potential is, but want to know what you think ill be making with what im using.

custom CAI
52mm bbk TB
Stealth ram intake
Dart iron eagle 180cc heads with 64 cc combustion chambers. no porting or work done to them.
Comp cams CS XR276HR-12 224/230 @ .050, lift intake 0.503 in. exhaust 0.510 in. , 112 lsa
Stock rockers, as well as lifters, and pushrods if i can get away with it.
Springs that match up with the cam
Stock bottom end (all this is getting done cause theres probably something along the lines of a spun bearing, got a bad motor vibration)
havent decided yet if an afpr will allow my stock injectors to keep up or if ill need to go bigger but the motor will be getting enough fuel.
stock chip if i can get away with it.

Future plans include 1.6 roller rockers, lifters, pushrods and a custom tune. This is a VERY budget build which explains some areas that im planning on skimping. Only buying heads cause previous owner put 305 heads on the motor and i cant deal with using them.

What kind of power do you think itll make with stock rockers, and does anyone see any mismatches? something that would work a lot better?

I'm hoping to make 350 hp/400 ft lbs at the motor

 

I think you will meet your goal.
perhaps larger heads though, that cam might like larger runners, 190cc perhaps.

 

280 at the wheels.

 

The next step up with the iron eagles is 200cc which i think would be way too much head for the cam. could be wrong tho.

Forgot to mention i also have some old school SLP headers and 3" mandrel bent exhaust.

 

ttt
wouldnt midn another opinion or two

 

Forget about the stock chip. You will need a custom tune. I say 260rwhp if that with the budget build. No mention of upgrading the exhaust system which is a biggie.

 

Sorry should have clarified, also have some slightly ghetto but effective old school SLP headers with 1 3/4 primaries, into a mandrel bent 3" system.

And these engine components have been confirmed, the engine shop is also reccomending i go with some forged pistons otherwise i may not get a lot of life out of the motor.

 

1989GTA, that sounds low, any reason why? cam & heads make the power in my eyes, and he's got good ones of both. Your thoughts?

 

I goofed as I had RWHP on the brain. With a proper build and tuning he has the potential to make his mark. Problem is I don't see any port matching anywhere. Stock valve train for now. I don't see any "blueprinting" of the block and with the stock chip he definitely won't make it.

 

Not to mention a budget set of heads and a cam that's on the big side, no port matching, zero decking, and a stock valvetrain that wont spin as high as that cam is going to want. Then I'd venture to guess that it's going in front of a stock 700 with a stock converter, a 3.23 gear and wrong size tires. Not knocking what you're doing so don't take it the wrong way, just saying it's not the optimum combo. Do it right the first time.

 

You can't run the stock chip thats for sure. But the combo looks good you should make plenty of power. Upgrading the rockers will work nice with the new cam. Other than that... Blueprinting and gasket matching, all that **** is monkey spank and worth nothing in the real world.

 

IMHO port matching is worth it.

 

What do you mean by portmatching? What would have narrower ports the stealth ram or the iron eagles?

Valvetrain isnt completly stock, i would think the valves that come on the assembled iron eagles are at least half descent, or descent enough for what im doing, and there is the base model for the springs on the heads and im getting the upgraded springs "1.437D 130# @ 1.800" / .620" max Comp 987.
I know lifters and 1.6 roller rockers would open it up a hell of a lot unfortunatly thatll have to wait until next summer.
And forgive me for this blonde moment i obviously understand the need for balancing but forget what blueprinting accomplishes. The engine is being rebuilt at an engine shop.

The heads arent that budget, i mean theyre no AFR's but they are a grand plus taxes fully assembled, and a hell of a lot better then stock, im not trying to make 600 hp afterall.
I had never considered how off the ports from the intake to the heads might be.
Why would decking help my build?
The cam is not that big its designed for 1800-5800 rpms, and the lift is not that crazy. As far as doing it right the first time im making sure all of the important work is getting done, changing the lifters and rockers later is easy all i have to do is take off the intake and valve covers, i just dont want to have to pull the heads again. I'm only 20 years old and broke as hell while trying to pull all of this off.

And the transmission is a TKO-600 5 speed, rear gears had been upgraded by a previous owner to 3.73's which is way too high for the trans but im not dumping any money into changing them, im just gonna save my pennies because its only a matter of time till i frag the 10 bolt anyways

Appreciate all the constructive criticism keep it coming!

 

port matching is matching your head intake ports to your intake manifold, and exhaust ports to your headers. If your cylinder head ports are SMALLER then the intake manifold (very rare), then the outer layer of flow, (not a lot of flow anyway but...) hits a wall and is redirected. Extremely bad for flow. If the head ports are larger than the intake, which is normal, it's a very small deal. Like Leigh said, balancing and blueprinting and port matching and *usually* buzzwords. Blueprinting just means "measuring everything and making sure it's in spec", usually a desired spec, and very accurately. Pulling parts out of a box and bolting them together isn't blueprinting, but measuring everything accurately and getting it machined to be perfect is.

decking the block increases compression, and gives a better quench distance. (do a search on quench.)

I'm not all that familiar with those heads, but any aftermarket heads should be better than stock, and good stock ported heads should make that HP mark so....
if you have flow #'s for those heads, post those, that will tell how much HP you should be able to make.

That cam you listed was a roller, and a good grind. I wouldn't think it's too big, 'specially for aftermarket heads.

A popular combo is vortecs and compxe274. That usually nets 350-400HP, and the iron eagles should be better than vortecs, and the xr276 is a better cam (being roller). I'd think it'd make more HP. That's just where i'm coming from.

I think in light of this new info, the combo is pretty well matched. Dialed_In, I think you really know your stuff, do you agree?

 

I agree. However I never said the cam was too big, just on the big side. But knowing that the car has manual trans I take back what I said . I think you misunderstood my comment about the heads. They're a great head, for a budget build like you're doing. The short turn isn't the best on them but with a little work they pick up a ton. Had a set on the flowbench last summer that I did some work with and they picked up a ton With that little runner though, they fell off around .520 but I played with the angles on the valve face and picked up a few more CFM up top. Not a bad head out of the box.

Zero decking and blueprinting is something I do on every motor. Yes, decking increases the compression but you can get away with the increase because of the improved quench area that supresses the detonation. Quench theory and dynamics can get very complicated so the best thing for you would be to do a search and read up on it a little bit. Basically you're shaving the deck of the block so that when the piston is at TDC it is also flush with the top of the block or just a few thousandths in the hole. Most LS1's actually have the piston sticking .0010-.0012" out of the hole. Blueprinting, like Sonix said, is basically measuring everything inside a motor that can be measured. Checking the line bore, main and rod bearing journal ID, housing bore ID, bearing clearances, crank stroke, deck heights, rod side clearance, crank endplay, piston to wall clearance, piston to head clearance, valve to piston clearance, compression ratios, quench area takes a lot of time but you'll be glad you did it. You can just slam all your new parts together and fire it up, but you could have some tight bearing clearanes that will destroy parts or at very least eat up HP in the form of friction and heat. There is a lot of horsepower to be found in the way a motor is assembled. Take two piles of parts and give each to a builder. One can slam all the parts together and the other can take the time to machine and assemble everything properly by balancing, blueprinting, etc.. Guess which one makes more power? Guess which one will run smoother? Guess which one will last longer? That's the difference between a $2000 crate motor and a custom engine built by a local shop that'll cost you $5000 for all the same parts.

 

flow numbers on the heads are
intake 222cfm @ .50" lift / 28"
exhaust 175cm @ .60" lift / 28"

ugh with this cam i make .533/5.43 lift with 1.6rr which i plan on putting in eventually, but i guess having more lift then the head can support is not what i want.

I am completly broke, anything over 150-200 bucks total for porting would be completly out of the question. Is there anything the engine shop can do porting wise for cheap? or am i better off choosing a more appropriate cam? one with a similar duration but that tops off around .525" lift with 1.6's

or to just get some 1.5 rr's with the current cam i had chosen?

 

You want more lift. The valves will be open longer at the max flow rate of the heads. It is called "dwell" time.

 

Sorry need a little bit longer of an explenation to understand that.

Youre basically saying i want a little more lift out of the cam then the peak for the heads is so im at the max flow rate of the head for more then a split second?

Well how much lift becomes too much lift?

 

think of the valve lift as a curve ok? on the x axis would be time (or duration) on the y would be lift. So if you have two cams side by side, the one with higher total lift, say .550" compared to .510, would have lift over .5" for a longer period of time. That keeps you using your .5" lift flow value for longer. k?

comp/lunati tend to try to give the very most lift on cams, while crane says that longer duration at fairly high lift (but not necessarily gargantuan lift), is better for power. Either way, more area under the curve is good.

 

Okay i understand that concept.

But on the other hand, if my heads top out at .520 lift and my cam goes till .540 there is a section of time that the valves are farther open then the heads can support. So i would think i am opting for a larger volume of air, and losing some velocity that i could have during the duration between the two on both sides of the curve.

I get that you want the peak of the curve slightly over the peak of the heads so you are at the heads peak for a bit of duration, but where do you draw the line at having too much lift that it effects how the parts match up, because obviously your heads and cam need to be nicely matched up.

In addition to the question of if im drawing the line too high with that cam, with stock iron eagles, what port work could be done to these heads for cheap? and if i did get port work would my peak of the cam then not be far enough over the peak of the heads?

 

if the heads "max" is .520" then you need to machine the heads for more lift, ie. so the retainer doesn't hit the valve seals. Otherwise there's no such thing as too much lift (to a point of course.)

you don't pay someone to port your heads, that's throwing money away, buy a die grinder, make a speed controller, and get some carbide burrs and sanding drums

if you want, look into a crane cam with .520" lift, and higher duration, it'll hold the valves open longer at your peak desired lift. (Crane is just a generalization, you can get a custom cam ground too).

 

sorry misunderstood what i was saying, and i probably said it wrong.

I am getting the heads with the upgraded springs and they can take 0.620" for the max lift.

My comments were because dialed_in said he had flowed a set of these heads and they pretty much fell off after .520, so being that the heads cant support flow at much over .520 lift, what machining can i get done for real cheap to get them to support a bit more lift, and how much lift do i want out of the cam so that i have adequate "dwell time" without having too much lift?

 

oh ok, if you have data to prove the heads fall off, then ok.

Well that's tough to say, usually the machine shop can cut your valve seats for 5 angles, but that usually just helps most at low lift. Your basic smoothing the runners and short turn will help overall, but I can't honestly tell you what would help at high lift flow primarily ('cuz I don't know...)

Probably port work or ...?

your original post showed you wanting a xr276, since that's .510" lift, I think that's a good cam to use. No need for 1.6 rockers, just get some good quality 1.5 roller tip rockers by comp. I really don't think 350HP is that tough of a goal to attain with what you're planning on using.

224/230 is good for duration @ .050.

maybe also look into:
crane 109831 / 222/230/ .509/.528"
lunati 60121 / 221/229 .515/.530"
crower 00402 220/228 .498/.519"
00483 221/230 525/545"

good to have choices.

 

couldnt find that second crower cam on summit i dont think its a hydraulic roller cam

looked at both the crane and lunati cam but they didnt seem like as good a fit as the comp cam's one

I pm'd dialed in and hopefully he can chime in again and give some advice as to how much dwell time is enough? and what cam is going to best match my heads?