I have an oportunity to get some camel hump heads for $280.00 they have not been port&polished, they need rocker arms,

My question is, is this a worth while purchase or should I just save my money for something better. I have stock cast iron heads now.

 

JUNK

Put it toward a pair of Vortecs and the matching intake

 

They arent junk, they were monster power for what they were competing against in the day. However, if youre looking for power, go with new heads, they have huge value for numbers matching or a collectors item.

These will give you a good kick for alot cheaper than a set of new aluminum heads, for a cheaper price.

 

That maybe the case, but in my eyes they are still JUNK

Lets face it they are 30-40 year old stock castings.

 

Thats great, but we dont all have fat wallets, and some of us are on a budget. So if this guy cant afford to dish out $3k, but he would like to spend close to 1k to get some port polish, and some decent build on affordable heads, camels are a good starting point. Like i said, if power is what you are after, these will get you it, but aftermarket heads are WAY better. The value lies more with the collectability and if you are trying to build a numbers matching block.

The 60s corvettes with fuel injection, Yenko series camaros, and Stage1 big block buicks were also 30-40 year old casting engines, i sure as hell wouldnt call those junk.

 

I plan on going to larger heads later, are these a good buy for 280 or should i hold off, im deploying in June and will have a ton of money, though I dont wanna go to big. im not trying to make the numbers match, just looking for some more punch, im sure i can move these again later.
If i dont port and polish these are they still a good buy? Im changing to a lunati cam and while im pulling that I have a chance to get these heads jsut wondering if its really worth the work.

 

And thats what camel humps are.
What are your 'stock' heads currently? If they're late model centerbolt heads you'd be better off sticking with those.

 

80's not sure just what year but yes they are center bolts. They are on a remanufactured 350, and they are GM thats all I know.

 

I think the asking price for the camels is too much in current condition. You would have to sink in a bit of money and you probably wont have a significant gain over your current heads. Stick it out till ur done ur deployment, and invest in larger heads later. My 0.02

 

You never know why they are for sale, cast iorn heads that old may be cracked. My vote, Save up... Buy new.

 

Pix would help.

 

They are JUNK for power period. $850 can get you a pair of Dart Iron Eagle heads. They will have larger valves, better flowing ports, proper valve springs, and fast burn type chambers.

 

I think "junk" might be a little bit of an overstatement, gievn that they were the absolute best in their day even though that day is long gone; but he's exactly right about them not being a wise choice, because if you have to sink money into them, the price of working them up adds up REAL CLOSE to brand-new superior ones REAL QUICK. And if you're not careful, you can even find yourself out-spending the cost of brand-new heads with EVERYTHING about them better, and you'll still be stuck with 40-yr-old stuff. Not economically efficient. Personally I hate it when I pay MORE but get LESS.

$280 for a pair of raw untouched castings, to work up for a street motor, is NOT a good deal. If they were $280 and already had some of the work you'd be having to pay for or the parts you'll be needing to buy, like good valves or port work or spring pockets enlarged or screw-in studs or any of that stuff that just mounts up at the machine shop, then yeah, they could be OK; but for basically just a set of cores, look elsewhere.

 

30 years ago they were performance heads. With what's available from the dealer and aftermarket now, you're not worth investing money into.

Larger valves, new guides, new valve seats, larger spring pockets for larger springs, larger springs, machining off the stud boss for screw in studs. Port and polish to help increase the air flow.

By the time you're done, you can buy some Dart heads fully assembled for less money and they'll still be better out of the box than the camel heads will be.

The only people who "need" camel heads are those racing in a class where they need a factory casting head and can't use a better aftermarket head such as Stock Eliminator. Also anyone building an older car who wants to keep all the castings in the period of the car.

Unless you can get all the machine work done to bring them up to mild performance for nothing, they're not worth investing in.

 

I can personally vouch for the Dart Iron Eagle heads. I had a 10:1 355 TBI engine with Dart Iron Eagle 180s in my 1994 G10 Van. With nothing more exotic bumping the valves than a Production LT4 cam it made 325 RWHP and a very broad street-able power band.

 

forget those humps, I see your carburated, so I would go with some vortecs from RHS. You can pick up a used vortec intake off ebay cheap, they dont wear out. Check out this build in superchevy.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ht_383_engine/

Its a 383 so dont go with the last cam they test. You can't beat these heads for the money for a street car. You can pick up these heads for $500 bare. Depending on what cam you use, the valvetrain can be very reasonably priced. Putting the heads together is cake. The cool thing is this has been done a billion times, so while your deployed and bored, you can sit online and read the buildups and order parts. That's what I do when I deploy, then I get home and have a pile of boxes waiting for me.
With the cam, valvetrain, heads, and used intake, you'll be just over $1k. Hell, you have to pull the intake to change the cam and heads anyway, so....

This is about the most power you would want without upgrading your transmission.

 

camel backs are good.. i had a pair on my first 383.. made LOADS of torque after a GOOD port and polish, but it didnt pull up top.. i could feel the power drop like i hit a wall after 5700rpm.. that asking price is WAY too high.. i picked mine up for $20.. you honestly would be better off buying aftermarket heads.. especially if you plan to eventually.. i dropped over $700 in parts and labor into my camel backs and after i threw a rod, i got new heads and my $700+ camel backs are just sitting at the shop with a bent valve.. now i have brodix racerite 200's and they are not the best aluminum head but they are alot better for top end power than camel backs.. just save up and go aftermarket..

 

Where do I get these DART heads that are 850.00 or is that a bare price? I was thinking edelbrock, performers, but now Im also hearing V-Tec, is V-tec really work all that hype. Is that what I should do or can I stick with regular heads. Sorry I know a bit but not enough when it comes to heads.

 

The camel heads probably don't have accessory bolt holes so you have no easy way to attach the alternator etc without changing all the brackets.

 

Vtec is Honda's tradename for their variable valve timing system. Wrong buzzword.

Vortec is GM's word for "we raised the intake ports about ¼" above where they used to be", thereby giving a MUCH straighter shot for the incoming air/fuel into the head. VERY good heads, within their limitations. High flow capacity because of the straighter path, high velocity because the port is small, carefully controlled casting process so they need relatively little port work (and in fact, can be destroyed by ham-handed trailer-park-style backyard "hogging out"). They are found on 96-up trucks with 5.7 motors (350). Highly overused buzzword. You see "Vortec push rods", "Vortec rocker arms", etc.; none of which are any different from anything else. People just trying to cash in on the "halo effect". VERY POORLY set up for performance usage from the factory; heavy crappy truck valves, totally hostile to high lift cams, very difficult to install good valve springs, etc.; but worth the effort to overcome, in the right combo. Problems easily solvable but require money, so much that they are often uneconomical. Casting #s 906 or 062. THERE ARE NO OTHERS; no "early Vortec", no "almost Vortec", no "like Vortec", period. Either they ARE 906 or 062, in which case they're Vortecs, or they're some other casting, in which case they're not. Period.

E-tec is Edelbrock's tradename for their raised-port heads with the Vortec port location.

Get your buzzwords straight, and maybe we can help you figure out if they apply to you.

Some of the "camel hump" heads DO have the accessory bolt holes. The ones you see most often for cheap, the 461 casting, DO NOT; and are not worth buying for one of these cars at any price, not even for free. 291 also has no bolt holes. Some other casting #s DO have the holes: 186 (probably the most common one), 492, 041, 292 (angled plugs, probably the best factory head up until the Bowtie series).

Dart web site

Typical eBay auction for Iron Eagles (I don't endorse or recommend or even know anything about this seller, just using as an example)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DART-...QQcmdZViewItem
GET THE 1.460" SPRINGS !!!!!!!!

 

so should i go with vortech or, should i get cast or aluminum, Im not looking to buld a drag car by any means but I deffinately want it to move. I want a "muscle" car, but I dont want a race car. I have a remanufatured engine and im drop in a lunti hydrauli flat tappet 256/262 lift .454/.468 summit part number LUN-60101LK
What would be the best combination to this, is this even a good cam for my set up.
350 w/600cfm edelbrock, performer intake, 3.42 rear (non posi) 700r4 Stock. 1" carb spacer.
Just trying to get a good combo so i dont trash my block, or waste my money. as for whats in the engine no idea, i just know its remanufactured, i was told it was a crate what i bought it, but i found the reman stam about a year later.

 

That's a compnay that makes centrifugal blowers; not heads. Gotta be careful with the buzzwords!!!

However, for a very near-stock motor with a too-small carb and very small cam like that, the Vortec heads would work quite well.

If you go that route, PUT ON NEW VALVE SPRINGS; and have your machine shop check the clearance between the bottom of the retainers and the top of the valve guides. Those heads have such ENORMOUS valve guides that the retainers are liable to smack into them at full lift.

 

Too small a carb i was told that over 600cfm was to large, if this is to small whats a good size for this engine, I had a 750 but sold it and bought this 600, will my stock heads be ok with this cam for now till I get new ones, sorry about the spelling never really dealt with VORTEC (yeah I got it right) before.
So is vortec the way to go or would these be fine

http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...-60859&FROM=MG

Guess I need some more help with what to put on here. I want it to screem, i mean hell you guys know what i want it to do. The same thing we all want, but at the same time I do want to beable to drive it day to day without having like 5mpg so someone help me out with a good list,

 

You gotta be real careful about stuff like that sometimes. Using the wrong word can send you on a left turn, down a dirt road, into the weeds, and MAYBE even into the lake. We don't want to go there!!!

We don't really all want the same thing. Some of us just want some extra pep during our commute; some of us are drag strip junkies; some of us autocross; some of us are looking to humiliate all comers at every traffic light; some of us run class-limited cars at local circle tracks. There's no "one size fits all" type of solution here. There's SO MUCH available, you can tailor your combo to its purpose, down to pretty fine detail; so don't think that just because one guy (or girl) is happy with their combo, that it'll be perfect for you.

Those Edlebrock heads are traditional small block heads. They were designed for a moderately hot street motor. They WILL NOT win a "race" situation, or put up the "most HP" in a dyno competition, or any of that; but they DO run good on the street, within their limitations (small intake port). They are capable of good gas mileage, because they keep flow velocity up, and therefore fuel vaporization is good which leads to good low- to mid-RPM efficiency. Again, not a dyno queen or lowest ET; but a good STREET head. IMO Vic's heads are some that company's best products for engines; that, and their intakes. Their cams and carbs, I can do without though.

Just as far as raw power output and general suitability for what it looks like you're doing, either those or Vortec ones would be a good choice.

Bad choices might include any kind of all-out racing heads, or spending gobs of money working over old stock castings.

The Edelbrocks are aluminum, which means you'd want higher compression than you would with iron ones. Somewhere around ¾ - 1 point of CR higher. That might impact your choice of pistons.

The Ebrock heads will work with your stock intake, or other similar ones. Vortec heads REQUIRE a Vortec-specific intake. The choice of intakes that will work with them is VERY small. Drilling the bolt holes is not enough; DO NOT fall for the "drilled for both bolt patterns" sucker line. The PORTS are in a different place, and will not line up, no matter what bolt holes are drilled in them. Don't forget to factor that into your cost calculations.

600 CFM is too small for a 350 in most performance situations, but not drastically hugely stupidly or anything. For a low-RPM combo, it'll work fine. It will run out of flow by about 5500 RPM; which is OK with the cam you spec, because the cam will quit making power before that anyway.

Budget isn't too different; most likely you'd have $750 or so in a set of Vortecs by the time they were like you'll want them, or about $950 in the Ebrocks. Not a GIANT difference.

[/stream of consciousness re. heads]

 

I have to agree with the above posters. Wait until you get back from your deployment. Then get a set of new heads. The Vortec heads are very good for the money and you can't go wrong with them for your situation.

 

all i can say about the carb is that it is kind of small.. i had a 650 on my 383 and you can feel the carb max out of airflow.. right around 5700.. power fell faster than a base jumper.. my solid flat tappet cam didnt help either.. 250* @ .050".. and 525 lift.. now i run a bigger cam, higher compression and a 750 mighty demon.. a 750, will the right jets and tuning, would be your best bet.. annular boosters are good too.. they allow you to run a seemingly large carb on your motor without the large carb bogging..

 

600 is a bit small, a 650 would be better for the street, and 750 if your looking for max hp. But is it worth the money and trouble to sell the 600 and buy a 650? Based on your posts, I would go with an edelbrock, my opinion is they are easier to tune. I know a little about holley's, and its taken me weeks to tune it to where I like it. Just my opinion.
You can buy vortec heads already set up for regular rockers with guideplates, screw in studs, max lift of .550 I believe, and no porting needed to work great on the street. Name's Racing Head Service (RHS). Scoggin Dickey also makes modified vortecs.
One great thing is.......it's a GM design!

 

wouldn't that more or less mean vs new heads they are junk?

in the day they might of been good but now with the way tech goes they aren't the greatest. sure if you get a set for very cheap then it might be worth the effort as long as they are setup for the modern engine but other then that they are junk


aren't those cars slower, put up less hp and torque and more of a pain to deal with then a carbed car?

 

Those cars actually are quite fast... I drove a 327/365hp fuellie Corvette ('64 ot '65) at the body shop I used to work at. It didn't make alot of low speed torque, you did have to slip the clutch to drive it around at slower traffic speeds, but once you can get the revs up a little, HOLD ON... those things had really long legs, even with the short 4.11 gears and no overdrive (4-spd manual here).

Now, as for the more street friendly car, the '67 427-4bbl Corvette I drove a few months later on (same shop) was much torquier and made for a much better driver around town, but that big block did have a hard time 'keeping its cool' on a hot summer day. But I'm rambling now...

Don't count out those double hump heads though, they are reasonably good heads for a street/strip combo... better than basically anything else GM used on the production line for the 20 years after they stopped making the double humps. But as Sofa said, if you have to sink any real coin into them, including purchase price, its probably not worth it. Theres better heads out there that can easily be had for the same money.

I bought a used set of 200cc/64cc Dart iron heads a couple weeks ago for about the equivallent of about $600 USD shipped. There were essentially new heads too... new valves, new springs, new valve seals, trued deck surfaces and a fresh valve job, lightly cleaned up ports and chambers (just casting flash removed etc). Never been run since the work was done.

I only said that last bit as food for thought - theres alot of good deals on aftermarket heads, especially cast iron ones - if you look around.

 

when i had the camel backs on my 383, i could break the tires loose at 2000 rpm all the way to 5k.. could have been the extra cubes/longer stroke.. made 359rwtq at 4k

 

[QUOTE=rx7speed;3202460]wouldn't that more or less mean vs new heads they are junk?
QUOTE]

NO it still wouldnt mean they are junk. They are by no means a sloppy or sluggish head, but with technology advances, and the demand for chevy aftermarket parts, you could spend a little more, and get that much more power. More bang for your buck kinda deal, even though the humps have quite a bit of bang. Would you spend $900 to get 300hp, or spend $1200 to get 450? Relatively speaking, the 450 is probably what most ppl would pick, but if i was short on cash, and i had some humps availible, id sure go for them.

And all you guys bashing the camel humps, kinda being hypocritical here. If new stuff is really all that much better, why you still sticking around in the "camaro" crowd, or the muscle car crowd? The newer C6 Z06 is the best thing GM ever made, or how about the new charger or shelby's GT500???

Yea i agree that this fellow isnt getting a good deal on the heads, and if he has the cash, its wise for him to spend it on vortec, or aluminum heads once, rather than spend the money on something that he is gonna change anyway. But that doesnt mean that the camels are junk.

 

I've got 462 casting camel backs on my 69 Camaro's engine, and admittedly, they look a lot more at home in that vintage of a car. I don't think I'd use them on a thirdgen though. It runs awesome with them. Whenever I get around to changing the heads on that car again, I'm definitely going aftermarket though. With some work into them, they're great for a GM head, but to progress further I'll have to use aftermarket castings. The one thing I can say for sure is that it's insane to pay $280 for an untouched set of them! I paid $25 for mine, and just like the other posters have said, by the time you get done at the machine shop, that's when your wallet really starts to look thinner. I had them enlarged to 2.02/1.60 valves. Contrary to what most people think, most camel backs were only 1.94/1.50 originally. I also used Manley stainless steel valves, had hardened exhaust seats installed to be able to run unleaded gas, bronze guides, screw-in studs, guideplates, roller rockers, had the spring seats enlarged for 981 springs, mild port work, etc. By the time I was done, I probably had about $500-$600 tied up into them. At that time though, the choice of aftermarket heads at a good price was hard to find. I really couldn't justify spending that much on another set of them these days. In fact, I have a couple of extra sets that I'll probably end up auctioning off eventually since restorers and collectors will pay nice sums of money for them. That's probably why the guy is asking $280 for them, which wouldn't be money well spent in your case when you're strictly looking for a perfomance gain, not a rare piece of Chevy memorabilia.

 

that's it? thats only 30tq more then the 350.

 

not at the rear wheels its not.

 

for the small difference I would wait till I was able to make up the difference for something that was quite a bit better.

something about cost to performance ratio new zo6 is what 50-60k? old thirdgen is maybe for a good one about 5k? not everyone can afford to plunk down that much change for a new car. but when it comes to the camel heads thats a little bit different of a story. if you get them dirt cheap they can be ok. but after tapping them for your accesories and giving them any sort of work over and if they are out of shape bringing them up to par by rebuilding them you might of well bought bought something that would performe better for the same amount of money.



so I guess in summing this up I should rephrase what I was saying.
junk compared to other heads for around the same price range if you have an untouched set of heads. if it is a set in good shape that can be had for bone cheap then maybe but otherwise...

 

thats rear wheel torque.. not at the flywheel.. at the flywheel i had about 425ish torque.. and that was WHEN i had them on.. my setup was too much for the heads.. i was running 10.7:1, a solid flat tappet cam, and only a 650cfm edelbrock.. the heads and carb restricted the cams full potential..

 

You have to understand most folks don't have a clue when it comes to camel hump heads. They have been brought up with newer technology and its all they know. Head to head the newer products are better, as they should be.
375 horse is 375 horse, I don't care how you look at it. The camels produced some good power back then and still can if you WANTED to build a set. But Id have to go with majority on this and say save a few extra pennies for some aftermarket heads. Most of them are built for today's world.