As you likely already heard, I recently spent $7000cdn on getting my original stock L98 5.7L V8 350 (with Shift Kit) remanufactured (pulled engine out, and installed all new parts, ignition, wires, etc). They installed headers as well as a Mild cam (Step 1) due to emissions in my area I've had to limit myself to this cam.

I've noticed there is no GRUNT when you floor it, and seems it just increases speed rather than Throwing you into the seat and spinning the tires as it Forcefully drives off.. In otherwords I've noticed a LARGE DECREASE IN LOW END TORQUE. The cam is doing it's job; producing a nice low idle with lope (which I was surprized cause when the car was in the shop, I was eventually told by a number of people I would likely NOT notice any difference since it's a mild cam). However the change (SOUND WISE) BLEW ME AWAY when it was started up for me.. EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED IT TO SOUND LIKE!! However performance is NOT

The car's exhaust only changed by headers. It's the same dual cat, into single 80 series flowmaster, exiting with Two straight (angle cut) 3.5" 2 Foot long chrome exhaust pipes out the back.

Here is what was done:

1 - New 5.7L V8 350 engine (Rebuilt with new Pistons, Bearings, Valves, Seals, Springs, Lifters, Timing Set, Polished Crankshaft, All new Gaskets, Including Head Gaskets, Intake, Rear Main seal, Timing Gasket and Front seal).

LIST (Parts like Motor Mounts, etc are left out of list since they have nothing to do with the engine Performance)

1 - Intake Manifold (STOCK as far as they told me)

1 - 3 Year, Parts and Warranty (60,000km Warranty) on all related parts.

1 - Comp Cam

Quote:

Model .05" Duration 1.5:1 Lift Lope Sep.

COMPCAM 08-300-8 206/210 .450/.480 112 Deg
FACTORY: 10111773 202/207 .413/.428 114.5 Deg

AS PER JEGS:


SPECS as per SUMMITRACING.COM



1 - MSD Pro Billet Distributor Cap and Rotor



1 - BEST Rated Oil Filter - WIX :


1 - MSD Wires (8.5mm) [BLUE] Heli-Core Spark Plug Wires Kit


8 - ACDelco's RAPIDFIRE platinum spark plugs (100,000KM replacement)


1 - Edelbrock (Ceramic) TES (Tubular Exhaust Systems) 1 5/8" Headers and Kit Exhaust System with Y-pipe


1 - Stage 8 Header Lock Bolts


1 - New O2 Sensor

1 - New AC Delco Waterpump

1 - New Thermostat

1 - New UPPER Heater hose

1 - New LOWER Heater hose

1 - New Intake to Throttlebody Coolant Hose

1 - New Radiator Fan Switch

1 - New Tempature Sensor

2 - New Oil Cooler Gaskets

1 - New Serpentine Belt

1 - Speedy Sleeve for Harmonic Balancer

1 - Oil Change 5W30

X - Fixed some grounding wires

Now my questions are this:

1. Is this NORMAL???? "new" engine, Added freeflowing headers (compared to air-sticken stock manifolds), and a mild STEP UP cam compared to stock cam.. and yet A NOTICIBLE DECREASE OF LOW ENGINE TORQUE AND GRUNT?

2. Could this mean the change now means the shift kit that was installed previously when the car was running stock engine is now out of tune and shifting wrong? Seems like it's shifting HIGHER up, which feels and sounds like it's strugling. If I floor it from a standstill, it seems to shift when it gets to almost the YELLOW on the tach which doesn't seem right. Shifts around 3500 normal speed. All this AFTER getting the car back. "new" engine with new parts and engine races to almost "caution" mark on the tach before it shifts when flooring it doesn't sound like something I want to do to a newly rebuilt engine..

3. Do I have to take the car back to the engine shop and mechanic because this is NOT NORMAL?? I ASSUMED I would assume a "new" engine (had coolant problems, compression problems, and 3 oil leaks), added HEADERS, and MILD step up 1 cam would INCREASE HP AND TORQUE???

I have to baby the car for least a year as I drive the car very short distances and the break in period is like 4500km (which is way more than I do in a year).

I need to know if I need to contact them, or take it to the tranny shop to see if these changes have effected the way the shift kit's shifting was tuned for.

I can't floor it all that much to see what's it's like in a higher RPM as I am told by the mechanic and engine shop that I have to let the cam and pistons SEAT or I can cause damage if I try to push the engine before it's BROKEN-IN.

Here is what the car sounds like :
PLEASE HELP.. DID I JUST WASTE ALL THAT MONEY?

 

have you done any tuning for your new cam? as the stock tune is kind of spotty already new cam with even those small upgrades might cause it to underperform

 

I would have assumed the $7000 would have paid for the mechanic to have done this all for me before I picked it up.

 

just because you paid that much doesnt mean the mechanic took your car to a dyno and tuned for the new cam or even had a clue that it needed to be done...

you are running the TPI right?

 

Oh I know he just installed the engine and didn't dyno it. It took over 1 1/2 months to do all this.

If it's the stock chip, how can it be tuned?

 

Wow that's a sexy car.

You spent a lot of money on nice shiny new parts that don't actually add anything at all to the cars performance. That cam is a factory replacement cam, I wouldn't expect any performance change in it at all. The headers are all I see.

You have a roller cam, so there is no break in period on the cam. The reason they don't want you to start bagging on it now is such that in 3 years when your warranty is up, you've only driven it hard for maybe 2 years, rather than 3.
Seating the rings is done by driving it moderately hard, and decelerating using engine braking. ie, 1500-4000RPM 2/3 throttle blasts in 2nd gear, and keeping it in 2nd gear to decel back down. After a week or so driving it moderately hard it's broken in, no need to baby it for 4500kms.

Heres my big $60,000 question - What engine was in the car originally? (305 or 350 TPI?)
and what engine was put in? An EXACT factory replacement, or a "GM goodwrench 350". ie, what cylinder heads are on it?

Other main point - your shift kit and shift points. I'm not sure if that's a TV geometry cable thing or not. I'm not sure who put in the engine (GM?), but i'd try taking it to a tranny shop and tell them you feel the car is lacking some grunt, and you think it might be shift point related. See what they say.

Actually, with $7000 in it, i'd be talking to the mechanic saying "W-T-F man!" It's slower than before, what'd you do wrong?!?

 

yeah but even though it is almost the same cam he shouldnt have lost power due to it and the headers should have helped even more...

 

To answer your question, this is the STOCK ENGINE. The stock L98 5.7L V8 350. They removed the engine, remanufactured it, all new bolt on parts, new valves, new springs, added mild cam, added headers, new intake (same factory replacement as far as I know as mine was worn out).. new ignition, new wires, plugs, gaskets, motor mounts, etc, etc..

The only part original is the block pretty much as it was honed down, and remanufactured back to factory specs.

 

This is what was done:

1. We ordered the parts
2. He removed the engine from the car and the engine remanufacturer picked up the engine and tore it apart. Reground everything, honed, cleaned, new bolt on parts. They installed the cam and engine to the engine EXCEPT the headers.
3. Dropped off to mechanic who installed headers and ignition, etc onto engine.
4. Engine in car, then he took the car to the exhaust shop to have the headers welded to the y-pipe and cats
5. I pick it up.

I don't see ANYONE tuning it..

 

very good looking car with a killer shine

i see you put a sleeve on the balancer, so i take it you used the the factory balancer. its not unusual for the outer ring to have slipped on an old balancer. few people ever check them if they look good. mine looked perfect but had slipped about 6 degrees when it had around 90.000 miles on it. if that happens you end up with your timing low. it doesn't take much to cause a noticeable drop in performance, 2~4 degrees is enough. the first thing i would do is check the timing, if its right check the balancer to see if its right.

 

They put the parts on.. No idea.. what's a sleeve for the balancer exactly? what's it for?

 

The repair sleeve has nothing to do with whether the balancer has slipped or not. After a lot of miles, the seal in the timing cover wears a groove in the outer sleeve of the balancer where it presses on the crank. The repair sleeve just gives it a new surface for the timing cover/crank seal to ride on.

 

what Pat Hall said covers what the sleeve does, there is nothing wrong with using a sleeve, my balancer has one on it.

i probably shouldn't have said my balancer looked perfect because it did need a sleeve, what i should have said is the rubber where the outer ring is mounted on looked perfect. i knew mine had slipped because i noticed the TDC mark wasn't lined up when when i put the balancer back on when i replaced the gaskets & seals on my motor before i put it in. i made certain the motor was at TDC & made a new timing mark on the balancer. going by the old mark my timing would have been about 6 degrees slow by my timing light.
i have seen some balancers go over 200,000 miles & still be dead on, i seen some that had less than 40,000 miles & be way off.
the fact that yours needed a sleeve let me know the balancer probably had a fair number of miles on it.
there is also the possibility that they set the timing wrong to start with, maybe they looked up the wrong specs, or just went by what they thought was right.

 

I called the mechanic and he says he put the timing on MILD (almost stock) as he didn't want to void the warrenty during the break in period.

He did no other tuning. No chip nor fuel injector tuning.. He is now looking for someone to tune the car for me.

So the fact that when I FLOOR it it revs to YELLOW and THEN kicks to the next gear is NOT normal? When would it NORMALLY change upon flooring it? One point in was ALMOST into red..

That sounds like the TV Cable?

 

He set the timing to mild? WTF is that all about? I think what he really meant to say was oops! we forgot to tell you that we were de-tuning your car! Get the timing set right and then with the engine off, depress and hold down the cable adjuster while moving the cable housing into the slider until it stops against the collar. Let go of the adjuster and then take it for a test drive. Without a custom chip you won't get all the performance out of the cam and headers, but your performance shouldn't have dropped so dramatically. You might also want to ask your "mechanic" if he bothered to degree the cam to make sure it was the cam he ordered and that it was installed properly. Sorry if this comes off rude, but guys like that tend to tick me off. You'd think he'd have done a more thorough job for 7 grand of your hard earned greenbacks.

 

I'm not sure what yellow and red are on your tach, depending on year and whatnot. But yea, set the TV cable as mentioned above, just to be sure.

Timing is the biggest thing that can "phantomly" rob you of power. I'm not sure what TPI motors like for timing, but try bumping it up a bit, maybe 10-12* base?

And start looking into chip burning stuff, I'm guessing you'll need it sooner or later right?

 

as iroczracer07 said, there is no mild setting for timing, its either right, or its not.
changing the cam can result in a different base timing needed for the car to perform right, as can any other major changes. ever motor is a little different.

like Sonix said, i would highly recommend you start learning how to burn your own chips. if your mechanic has it done, it will probably be some aftermarket chip which would be a waste of money, & you'll likely see another drop in performance. with burning your own chips, you can set most anything to what ever the motor likes.

for more info on burning your own chips, read through the stickies in DYI-PROM.

as far as the RPM when it shifts, if adjusting the TV cable doesn't do anything, your tach may be off which is a common problem with thirdgens.

 

how many times are you going to say no to 89vert burning a chip for you?
my god sometimes I think people are right about you.

 

for that kind of money you should have took to my cusion like I siad,
he did the machine work on the block and the head(decked it and did valve grind), and balanced the rotating assembly my brothers 350 TPI dual cat car,
but his is MAF

the 2 of us put it together, did some backyard clean up of the ports on the intake and stock heads,
same distributor, edelbrock TES headers and same cam,

after I did just a little custom tuning, like not many hours at all,
on a cool night it'll pull 3 gears of rubber(stick car)

another cusion of mine put that cam in a 305, it goes ok but I did have to do a bit more tuning(map car), still haven't logged any real time tuning
and it was tough to get it through aircare, took installing a heated O2 to get it through,(ecm kept calling lean aircare siad it was rich)

could be the cam, but, if they didn't get the compression right,
lots of builders don't take the time to check piston to deck height, and get the compression ratios right
I've heard of people losing a a couple compression points after a rebuild

my autoprom is acting up right now, once I get it up and running, or get a new 1 I'll get a hold of you

 

take the car to cypress, do a had run up the hill, its a fairly long drive,
don't let it overheat(that where my chip comes in again for fan temps)

then it should be plenty broke it, lugging it is the worst thing you can do for it,

my cusion builds race motors, he gets his foot in it hard with a fresh motor,

loading it up is the best thing you can do for it

what shop did you take it too,
they could have set the timing wrong, without disconnecting the advance,
you'd be missing like 18* total timing, which would make it 1 heck of a slug

 

What's THAT supposed to mean
----------
I already talked to your cousin remember.. He told me $3500 just to machine it, MINUS any installed parts.. and he also told me he does not remove the engine, the engine has to be taken to him already removed.

 

really, he must give me a smoking deal then,
I'd take it back to the guy who did the work,
you didn't take it to Canada Engines aka Canada Grenades did you?

 

For $7000 ya got hosed.
remove a valve cover and read the casting number off the cylinder heads.
Should end in "083".
I'll bet the compression ratio of your rebuilt motor is a lot less than the stock motor was.
Common rebuilder pistons have a modified pin height. This causes the piston to sit farther down the bore at TDC than the stock piston does. This reduces the compression ratio unless the block is decked to correct the compression height.
Further, the stock had gasket is .015" thick. Common rebuilder replacement head gaskets are .039 tp .041" thick. Some even thicker.
Your cr could very well be as much as 1.5 ratio lower than stock.
If the cam has a lumpy idle, it is not the cam you think it is. A cam with 206-210@.050" and 112LSA will have a near stock idle.

 

My $.02

First off +1, tune the car. Speed density cars are sometimes almost none responsive to mods, its the lack of an MAF sensor...sucks but true.

Second (here is my contrubution)
Who degreed the cam? Corect me if im wrong but 4-6 degrees off in cam in the wrong direction will create A: more lope due to moving the exhaust closer to the combustion event and B: less power due to moving the combustion event closer to intake valve opening. Kinda like buying a cam with the wrong duration.

like I said im not a mechanic or a specialist but thats kinda what it sounds like to me. Good luck buddy!

P.S. Killer looking Camaro BTW.

 

I beleive he rebuilt the motor that was in the car originally,
but it wouldn't be the first time I've heard of people not getting the parts they paid for in a motor, or even there same motor back for that matter,


I'm with you 100% on the Comp. ratio thing, so many builds to take the time to check piston to deck height,
and for head gaskets, a custom from Cosmetic is the only way to go, get the comp. ratio right where you want it,

my bros car has that cam and it has more of a lump then stock, enough to notice, but no where near a real lump

 

[QUOTE=F-Body Demon;3352318]My $.02

First off +1, tune the car. Speed density cars are sometimes almost none responsive to mods, its the lack of an MAF sensor...sucks but true.

[QUOTE]

I'm local for him, and I do it for cheap, I'm no where near pro
but I've done tunning 2 cars with that exact cam,
asked him a few times and he doesn't seem interested, cause i got to tune on the street,
there is another shop that is local that does all kinds of performace work on camaros and stuff like that and they have a tuner and thats what he does for a living, I just do it on the side,

 

I only know of 1 shop in the Vancouver area that tunes 3rd gens,

they have a burner, but they've borrowed my emulator