search is not working to good...only brings up stuff from like 01 but anyways..

Ok, after looking at my oil pan...i guess im going to need a new one...where do I go to get a new one not to expensive? and what kind do I need? stock I dont think works as the rods would hit the pan and I dont want to have to dent the pan..thats cant be good.... this is for a 383 stroker motor with 6" rods and also...about my oil pump, how far off the bottom does the pick-up need to be? I measured the one that is already on the motor and it measures about 5.5" from the bottom of the block where the pan would start...the pick-up is welded on the pump....most pans ive looked at are like 7 or so inches deep in the sump....is my pick-up welded to high up?
Even the pan that was on the motor already was 7 or more inches deep....so that was leaving the current pick-up about 2 inches from the bottom of the pan...WHAT WOULD THAT CAUSE TO HAPPEN? is that not good?

would I have to buy a new pump and pick-up since mine has already been welded? or is there a way to break the weld off?

the pump that I have on there now is an Mellings...M155


is any of this does not make sense let me know..




thanks

 

IMHO that pickup doesnt look tilted downwards enough



ones i have always ever seen are more tilted down than that

even with the 85 305 LG4 in the 85 elky that i just completely stripped down to a bare block and took to the machine shop for prep work for rebuilding(pickign it up tomorrow to assemble it all brand new from scratch and put back into the car)


i have the original GM pump and pickup from it laying on the oil drain pan ill go look at it and confirm the tilt of the pickup on it

PM me if you want a pic or something




good luck

 

yeah I figured that out thats its not tilted enough.....its a brand new pump and Im wondering if there is anyway I can break the weld on it and be able to tilt it down farther so I get the right distance from the bottom of the pan...

Can anyone tell me how I would go about trying to break the weld? its not just tacked its weld all the way around.....they didnt want that thing to go anywhere!...LOL

 

If the pump screen doesn't go low enough in the pan, then you lose one of the benefits of running a deeper pan: which is, to run the oil at a lower level and still have more than the stock amount of oil in it, thus fixing windage in a "natural" way. And, even with the pan full, it's usually MUCH easier for the top couple of inches to slosh all the way away from the pickup, than for the bottom couple of inches.

That pickup location looks about typical for a stock pump, to me. I wouldn't just automatically diss it just yet.

If the screen is welded to the pump, there's not much you can do about that. Get yourself a suitable pan, and then figure out if it fits it. You want the pickup about 3/8" - ½" from the bottom of the pan. If it comes out right, or you can bend the screen a little without crushing it, then you're good; if not, just buy a new pump and be done with it. They're SUPER cheep, not worth the effort to try to salvage from being welded together.

What block is it? (casting #) Or, where is the dipstick?

 

block is a 3970010 block with dipstick on the drivers side....what pump do you suggest getting? So I can just change the pump and pick-up and not have to mess with the stem.....if I a pump just like the one I have then I wouldnt have to mess with anything except with what is in the picture. Just unbolt the pump with the new pick-up and then get the pick-up weld where I want.

THe pickup now is like only 5.5" from the bottom and I have seen a pan that is only that deep...most Ive seen are like 7"

 

http://www.sdparts.com/product/36045...Z28OilPan.aspx

Note however, that you MUST use a windage tray with this pan; it is designed for it, and lacks adequate baffling to run without.

I use it with this windage tray and the stock GM windage tray studs.

Get whatever pan you're going to use first, and check your pickup screen against it; you may find (or maybe not) that it's just fine like it is.

Not sure what a "stem" is?

 

somebody reccomend me a pan and oil pump with the correct style pick-up..most ive seen are for circle track or some chit......pumps are cheap enough that I can just buy a new one....I have already removed the one that was on the engine.....the pick up tube is welded to good to try and move it. What I have now is a M155....I think thats standard volume and pressure....is that I what I need to replace it with or a better one? I think Ive read that some Melling pump are made cheap now and are breaking..so which one do I get? also I know it has to do with the dizzy gear I have or soemthing liket that...I think mine are cast metal as I can put a magnet to it and it sticks.

I need to get this all done in the next week or 2..I l already have my new flexplate on the way...so I figured I might as well fix all the problems that Im having now while the motor is out..I can get the motor and trans back in the car and wired in a day or 2...Im headed to the beach on the 28th....for mustang week....LOL....


Sofa? the pan that you linked me too wont work..I have a 2 peice rear main. and also the windage tray wont either ..say not stroker clearanced.

the pan need to clear my rods....I have 6" rods..I dont want to buy a pan and it not fit...ya know?

what about these?..the one with the pump..is that a good pump? or should I got HV?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBC-C...28462710QQrdZ1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBC-C...28414350QQrdZ1

 

The pan I linked you to is for 1955-1979 SBCs. I could be wrong but I think most of those were 2-pc rear main seal with left-hand dipstick.

I know FOR A FACT that my combo works, WITH a long stroke; I last had one of them on a 400 in my Camaro. The GM windage tray however might not. For 400 blocks, I do have to slot the mounting holes though; the main bolts are farther apart on a 400 than on a standard large-journal motor such as a 350 or 305.

I'm not sure which Melling pumps are the ones with the "lightweight" casting. I *think* the one you have is one of the "heavy" ones, but don't take my word for it. I'm pretty sure the std M55 has been downgraded. But, once you find whichever one you want, just put the Mr Gasket 26 spring in it. That makes it high pressure. You don't need high volume unless you've got spray bars for your valve springs, or full-groove main bearings and cross-drilled journals. IIRC you have a stock bottom end with stock bearings and stock clearances with the whole stock oiling system in stock condition (the stroke notwithstanding), so you need basically stock oil delivery and nothing more. Any more is a waste of HP that does nothing but just churn up the oil and wear out the dist gear faster than need be.

 

why do I want High Pressure? ....Ive read that all I need it standard...and then IVe read that I need HV if I have a 7qt pan and then Ive read that I dont need a HV cause it will suck the pan dry.........Jesus!!!..this is so confusing!.....I just want the right pump and pick up....Im going to use my same oil pan..I cant afford a new one..im just going to seal the HELL out of it.

I know I need the M Select series pumps..those are of the OLD THICKER CASTING but I dont know which one..I want to order it tomorrow so I can have it by this weekend and put the pan back on and drop the motor back in..

 

"Stock" pressure, for a replacement pump, is 35-40 psi hot cruising.

"High" pressure, which also happens to be stock for these cars, is 50-55 psi under the same conditions.

"High volume" pumps are for people with heavily modified oil systems, and are intended to deliver extra flow for things like ver large bearing clearances, grooved bearings, valve spring cooling spray bars, etc. But if your engine isn't modified in some way to "accept" extra flow, then it does NOTHING except consume power to drive the pump, because the pump is "positive displacement" (it moves the same amount of oil per revolution no matter what), and the oil has to go SOMEWHERE. It just circulates around mostly inside the pump. Meanwhile, the power to drive the pump is proportional to the pressure it generates times the flow (and the flow at the pump is a constant, remember, regardless of how much of the oil goes through the motor and how much doesn't), so the combination is a HEAVE load on the distributor, which isn't really built in such a way as to withstand that indefinitely.

Back in the day, people used to build short blocks with .005" or more of bearing clearance, and then ran 40 weight oil; well needless to say, with THAT MUCH clearance, the bearings themselves acted like a GIANT oil leak. That was where the popularity of putting HV pumps in motors came from. Most of us don't build motors like that any more, we've learned better, and bearing have got better besides. So when we build motors with the typical stockish .0015" - .003" clearances, a HV pump is accomplishing nothing whatsoever, and is only wasting power. Then this myth about "cheap insurance" got started somehow; the question is, insurance against WHAT? The only way that bearing clearances increase on their own after the build, is if they're destroyed; no oil pump is sufficiently magical to un-destroy destroyed bearings and cranks; the only cure for ruined bearings is replacement; so what does the HV pump accomplish in that situation? Once again, nothing.

Oil pan capacity doesn't "require" a HV pump. Engine flow demands require a HV pump, or not. Your bottom end is STOCK, for all practical purposes (like I said, apart from the stroke, which isn't an issue), so you need STOCK flow levels, and nothing more.

Here's probably your best shot at getting the right pickup. http://www.moroso.com/catalog/catego...?catcode=12001 Here's their pans so you can see what depth the pickups are made for. http://www.moroso.com/catalog/catego...?catcode=11002

 

If you are running the y pipe over to the passenger side you will need to watch out for some of the 7 quart pans. Sofaking is on the money, but if you want someone to talk you through it call Summit, they will ask all the right questions to get you what you need.
Cooter

 

ok...I talked with Mellings...and they recommended this:

10552 Select Series Pump with old casting and it is 10% more volume..IS THAT OK?
12557 Bolt on pick-up screen that is 7" deep for a 7.25" deep pan.
12550 chrome moly shaft.

and told me to torque it down to 65lbs.

and be done with it.

now, that doesnt say anything about high pressure but SofaKing is saying to replace the spring on the pump? where do I get that spring? Im going to order the pump today from Jegs or SUmmit and will have it Thurday..so hopefully it will work out and fit with my old oil pan......

Sound good?

 

Anywhere that sells Mr. Gasket products will be able to get you the spring.

 

cool....thanks...what about the pump? is that 10% more volume going to cause problems like Sofa was talking about?

 

That's the high volume pump. Not sure why they push it, but the 10553 is the standard volume.

I just picked up a M77 for my big block, it came with the high pressure spring. Seems the small block unit I got several years ago did as well.

 

i heard someone say that is you run a high volume oil pump and race the car at high rpms it c`an actually drain the pan cause the pump is pumping the oil up faster than it runs back down which could cause bearing failure

 

A lot of people will say that, but that doesn't make it any less false.

 

I heard the very same thing last week when calling around for a pump - "With a stock capacity oil pan, use a standard volume pump or you'll pump the pan dry."

Gee, my engine should have been toast back in 1997. . .

Sofa gave the real reasons - HV isn't needed, and just adds to the load on the pump drive shaft and distributor gear.

 

thanks for the info...I just said screw it!...im going with a new Canton oil pan...and the Melling 10553 SV pump....I gotta decide by tomorrow at 3 so the guy can ship it and I can have it all by friday...He also needs to call Canton and make sure what screen I need to go with that pan...cause it 8" deep when most are 8.5"

Then I'll get the spring to raise the pressure and be done with this BS!!...

I stil gotta get injectors cause a few of mine are leaking and I talked to Rich at Cruzin and he said that all he can do is clean them..he cant fix a broken injector...so again I said screw spending money to see if cleaning fixes them when I can just by new ones..

its all on CC's anyways...then in a few months im gonna claim the big BR..and screw them too.....LOL

I just want this car on the road!!!!

 

How hard do you rev it?

 

how much could a 10% increase in Volume pump really hurt the motor over a standard volume pump? plus the 10% pump is cheaper and better made.....with the 6qt pan...im thinking it wouldnt do a whole lot of difference...theres a qt more fluid.

just my thought....but i dont know anything...thats why I ask

 

A 10% increase in volume won't have much effect, it'll just use 10% more power for 0% benefit.

 

when you say use 10% more power..thats not HP? ..how could it use more power? its the gears inside the pump doing the work.......and the dizzy would stilll spin the shaft at the same revs as the standard.
Ive got the new AFR's that are suppose to have the new revised oil drain back passages..

 

It takes work to move the extra volume of oil, even if it's just to vent it through the bypass. It's not much to worry about though, the extra 10% doesn't really make it a "high-volume" pump. If you compare the old pumps, the M55HV had about 25% more volume than the M55.

The 10553 is a run-of-the-mill oil standard volume, high pressure pump with a press-in 5/8" inlet, comparable to the "old" M55/M55A.

The 10550 is the high-volume (+25%) version, with the 5/8" press-in inlet. Same as the old M55HV.

The 10554 is the standard-volume 3/4" press-in inlet pump. Same as the old M155.

The 10551 is the high-volume (+25%) 3/4" press-in inlet pump. Same as the old M155HV.

The 10552 has a 10% increase in volume, a 3/4" bolt-on or press-in inlet, a dowelled cover, and better supported shafts. The relief spring is held in with a screw plug instead of a dowel pin. It must be used with the 12550 drive shaft.

The 10555 is the high-volume (+25%) version of the 10552. It also needs the 12550 shaft.

Both the 10552 and 10555 are also available with anti-cavitation grooves in the cover for racing applications only. All the pumps, except for those with anti-cavitation grooves, are supplied with high pressure springs installed, but the standard-pressure springs are also included.

 

I rev the 396 to 6200 RPMs.

 

WEll I place my order for everything today and should get it all by friday so I can put it all back together and back in the car.

I ordered:
}...Canton pan #13-080 deep 6qt pan
}...Melling Select pump #10552 10% more volume guy at Melling said that 10% is not a big difference over standard the pump already come with the pink high pressure spring
}...Canton bolt on Pick-up screen #20-082 to go on the pump and work with the pan
}...Chrome moly Pump shaft #12550 because the 10552 drive is hex driven and the other shaft are the normal flathead.

I guess we'll see if it all goes together ok.....

 

Uhm, you do realize if they feel you have too much into something (or have planned this in advance) they can take the car, right? My mom's a goldsmith, and when we filed bankruptcy the judge was looking at her personal collection of gold rings (which didn't cost her a dime, btw, people paying for jewelry work with other jewelry).

 

That is true, not for SBC but mostly on BOP V8 many moons ago, the oil returns in the valley weren't very efficient, was not very good for higher RPM, oil could pool up in the valley even worse with a bunch of miles and lack of maintainence and cause of the slow return to the pan a high volume pump could suck a pan dry. Big blocks were worst.

Learned that the hard way on my first Olds rebuild.

 

If the drainback holes are plugged that badly, even the standard volume pump will suck the pan dry.

 

Thats faster than i rev, but I would still think somewhat on the light side. My brother had a car that he would brake tourqe to 7,000 and then let it loose, had a high volume pump with a stock pan and the motor failed. Bearings showed dry spots. But he didn't clean out the oil passages like he should have.