hello, just got my stupid car out of the shop and had the clutch replaced. The car still has problems going into gears, u have to jam it into gear,I drove it home and am leaveing it there till i figure it out. The guy who replaced it said the master cylinder is weak. The clutch has barely any pressure, and doesn't even engage. Now I don't get it, new slave cylinder, new clutch still problems!! can the master cylinder cause the car not to switch gears, i mean i cant even go from first to reverse, please help!!!

The stupid a** said you should have replaced the master cylinder before the clutch , he tells me this after i pay the shop, i should have ripped his head off then!! 487.00$ for what!!!!

Is it possible to replace the master cylinder or is it too hard?

This is why I HATE! auto shops!

 

Aside from internal transmission issues, mis-assembled clutchgear will also do it (like a throwout bearing stuck in the fork wrong). Another possible cause is a faulty pilot bearing/bushing. I had those same symptoms with the mismachined pilot bushing for my TKO. Worked for about two minutes and the input shaft siezed, locking me out of all forward gears as well as reverse. You can check the throw of the hydrolics by observing the clutchfork. If it doesnt have much travel when the clutch is depressed, then the hydrolics may be bad or improperly bled. If the clutch pedal feels real spongy, then theres air in the system. You also should replace it as a unit (master and slave cylinder) if possible if you need to get a new one. GM has, or used to have, units that where pre-bled for easy installation.

 

it is replacable normally you would replace both slave and master at the same time

are leaking fluid? have you checked? what color is it? are you filling it with brake fluid?

if you get the car in gear and start the car with your foot on the clutch will it start to move or stall the engine if you dont disengage the clutch?

sounds to me like they didnt properly bleed the slave cylinder or your reservior has been sucked dry and needs more DOT 3 brake fluid

 

When trying to start the car in first gear, the car wants to start rolling, like the clutch isnt in gauge,, I'm going to go and get my master cylinder replaced and the system bled, Hopefully this will fix the problem, with the new clutch and both of the cylinders replaced.....Hopefully it will go into gears and have some stiffness in the clutch pedal instead of a cut off piece of meat thats hanging there

 

at least give bleeding them your self a try... i mean if you arent losing fluid then there probably isnt anything wrong with the master cylinder at all... and it sounds like the shop you went to had no clue they might not have even tried to bleed the slave... it can take a very long time

i payed to have my clutch done last year biggest mistake ever for other reasons but in the process they somehow managed to get air in the system.. not enough for me to get under there and bleed it but enough to **** me off... which pissed them off as i kept bringing it back to have it fixed only they didnt know what was wrong with it

 

So im gonna try and bleed it, do i just keep pumping the clutch pedal? wont this break the slave cylinder? i looked under the car there is nothing leaking that i can see. The brake container is full of fluid also. If that doesn't work i may take it to the shop again and have them replace it but if you guys think it doesn't need to be replaced what else can it be..i guess it should be bled properly first....who knows.....let me know

 

the container for the brakes has nothing to do with the clutch... further outboard of the brake booster there is a small round container with a screw on top it is clear... that needs to be full to the top of the lines inside

 

get a good book , your year camaro . [ i mean G.M. , not haynes ] or go to the library . there is on the clutch housing , a clutch fork ball stud . i would bet they left that out or it is backed out . the clutch fork pivots on it . after a few days slave cylinder will blow its guts . the clutch fork ball stud is just to the rear of the opening for clutch fork . 3/8 drive allen wrench . hard to get at but can be done . screw it back in [ with lok-tite ] . just did my own 89rs today , for what its worth . oh yes , ball stud should have plastic/nylon cap on the end that contacts the clutch fork .

 

if they left out the stud he wouldnt have any clutch movement at all... and the slave would have been toast the 3-4th time he pushed the clutch probably would have had fluid every where but yes it would be undriveable not even to move it a little as the clutch would never slip

 

your right spitot , after i got done with mine today ijust wanted a cool one and a shower . any way i have seen the ball stud left out before . pointed it out one time at a shop . [ no sweat , my men know what their doing ] O.K. , 3 days later ," what was that about a stud ball ? " they had left it out .

 

Well i just got the clutch bled today, it runs allot better, but still doesn't want to engage the clutch right, i called up a clutch shop and they said they can take a look at it but the things i was telling him he doesn't seam to think its the master cylinder, anyway, so now i have a new clutch and slave and flywheel. I was gonna go get the master replaced but saw no point if that wasn't the main problem. The system has no air in it and it has pretty good pressure about 3/4 the way but the first 1/4 of the pedal is limp and has no pressure which is cause for the clutch not to completely engage, So i guess the next thing i could try is take to him see what he thinks...i dunno, anyone got any ideas?

 

there can be some slack at the top of the clutch movement... and the clutch will take a while to break in... took almost 2 weeks for mine to behave normally at first it was really grabby no slippage at all and it slowly improved...

i would say give it some time before paying for anything else that might be unnecessary in the end

 

Could it be that it just needs to "break" in if I can't even put it in reverse while the car is started? It doesn't switch right at all and it doesn't go into 1st too well either.

 

when you say you cant put it into reverse what do you mean... you cant do it because the tranny wont let you or because it will grab and stall the car?
same thing with first... is it just hard getting the gear engauged or does it grab...

reverse is always a hard gear to get with the T5 as it doesnt have a synchro
but i believe first does but it has a type of interlock that prevents the car from going into first above 20 MPH in stock form...that is what will sometimes give you a problem with first the car might need to move alittle either roll back or forward helps with getting both forward and reverse

 

It does not go in reverse if i start the car in first gear, i can put it in neutral but when i try and push the clutch in and put in reverse it grinds, like the gears are still spinning, i don't want to force it in, the only way i can put it in reverse is if i start the car in reverse. Same thing with first gear, but it doesn't grind. you can go in first gear if u start the car in it, once u take it out of first gear it wont let u put it back in if your driving. even at a stop light, just doesn't want to go in..

 

but it will let you say instead of first put it into second? or third?
once you get it in a gear with the clutch depressed and the car idleing does it try to move forward? can you smell burning clutch?

this is starting to sound like an actual tranny problem not clutch

 

It goes into 2nd 3rd 4th and 5th fine without no burning clutch smell. Once I take it out of first I have to put it in 2nd to start going again like at a stop light, it goes and drives in 2nd fine and Im able to put it in neutral back into 2nd just fine. No it doesn't try to move when it's in gear ever since I had it bled but before it did. Now I can push in the clutch and it engages the clutch but it just doesn't engage the clutch all the way, which is why I've been told it could be the master cylinder. I'm thinkin this is why I can't go into reverse. Why do you think it's the transmission?

 

refer back to post #8 . mine was doing the same sort of stuff you are talking about .the ball stud is what clutch arm pivots on . mine had backed out , i'll bet yours has also . if your not sure what i am talking about , print these pages and take them to the shop with you .

 

please explain how the ball stud backing out is going to keep the car out of 1st or reverse... but not say 2,3,4,5?

if the clutch wasnt moving enough to completely disenguage the friction plate you would have a horrible grinding trying to put it into 2,3,4,5

try it go out there and start the car try putting it into 3 without the clutch see what happens... it can be done at speed but it needs to be done perfect
and takes alot of practice with the car to accomplish smoothly.

 

[quote=SpitotRs305;3456578]please explain how the ball stud backing out is going to keep the car out of 1st or reverse... but not say 2,3,4,5?

the ball stud backing out changes the leverage/ throw of the clutch arm . it only allows only partial disengagment of the clutch . thats why you can get into 2,3,4,5 . with out full disengagment it grinds or will not go into 1st or reverse . its on the backside of the bellhousing same level as clutch arm . large round flat head about 1 1/4 in. . it take a 3/8 allen wrench to tighten . if it has backed out [ i am pretty sure it has ] before tightening it clean threads and use loc-tite on threads . i'm telling you i just went through the exact same thing word for word . its the only thing the guy has not mentioned was checked or replaced . if you don't understand me maybe some one else can explain it better . HELP SOME ONE , PLEASE !!!!!

 

your right without full disengaugement it should not go into first or reverse... mine will... but if you put the tranny in say first and sat there with your foot on the clutch... if the clutch wasnt fully disenguaged you would smell the clutch... cause the clutch fork has to move x amount of distance to diseguage the friction plate completely... so if as you say the ball stud has backed out which is now limiting X the pressure plate never fully releases the friction plate... burning clutch... driving the car you would notice that the clutch stops grabing after a while until the pedal is almost fully released which can happen anyway with a new clutch

 

I HAVE DONE MY BEST TO EXPLAIN . I'M OUT OF HERE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Hello, thought i update you guys, well i been driving it a couple times to see if it was just the new clutch, It lets me go in first gear now, and switches a lot better then before. But it still spins when trying to put it in reverse, and i have to push the pedal all the way to the floor for it to go in neutral. Its starting to look like a hydraulic problem, Someone told me my transmission is trashed by what i told him, but i think the transmissions would have a lot more problems if it was trashed. But yea, just wanted to say it goes it first now,I just got to push the pedal all the way to the floor, I didn't smell any burning clutch while driving, but i did hear something spinning constantly, dunno if that was normal, it was like a faint spinning. Anyway, so ..clutch/hydraulic problem.....or transmission is bad?
...you guys think im by now , lol

 

Hey, i wanted to ask you something, i don't know if you read my last post but its going into first now , but it still spins if i try and put t in reverse while running, and like i said i have to go allllllllll the way to the floor to switch....i wasn't sure, but do you think it was the clutch problem/hydraulic or transmission. Thanks..i know its hard to try and tell what the problem is without looking at it. A shop i called thought it wasn't bled right, but i just had it bled, he said that it probably wasn't bled with the GM bleeding tool.

 

well i would say its a hydrualic problem... with a new clutch you should have to use most if not all of the clutch travel to get it to disenguage... that spining noise is probably the pilot bearing... does the sound change if you push in the clutch?

before putting it into reverse... try going into first then second... then straight to reverse without letting out the clutch

 

Hello, Yes the noise does change when the clutch is pushed in.I will try putting it into reverse again. But usually it just keeps spinning, Im almost positive its due to the clutch not in gageing, I dont think my Transmission is gone. Thanks for the info

 

I forgot to mention that when driving, as long as i dont rev it up when switching gears it switches fine, If I take it to 2000-2500 RPMS it doesn't want to switch right, but i let it drop to 1500-1800 RPM and it pops right into gear.

 

now that could be synchros or incomplete disengagement you would have to verify disengagement... put the rear end up on jackstands... start the car put it in first with the clutch depressed... are the rear wheels turning?

 

Nope it does move, but i dunno if this is normal doesn't feel normal but when in say 3rd gear and im going 30 MPH it seems like its reving high so i switch it in 4th and it sounds more better but, in 4th gear at say 40-45MPh it wants me to switch it in 5th.....and 1st gear go up to maybe 10 MPH and second gear around..20 ish.....dunno i thought i let u know....just doesn't seem right...maybe it is the trans...its starting to sound like it...hmm wounder how much this is gonna cost me

 

dont bother even looking at the shift light.... it is less than useless

do you have a tach? what kind of RPMs are you turning to 30/3rd 20/2nd 45/4th should be around 2K for each of them

but now that you have determined the wheels turn with the clutch fully depressed... it must be fully depressed not even an inch left you need to make a judgement... how much/fast are they turning... only a little bit? very slowly? how much will they speed up/slowdown with a change in engine RPM

 

NO no...there are no tack lights....it REVS high in gears, for example....im in 3rd gear....it starts sounding high pitched at around 30-33 mph...and wants me to put it in fourth..once i do so, it runs smoother, less jerky...seems to be alot of reseintance in the gears, if that makes sence....and the wheels DO NOT turn when the clutch is depressed.

 

well you need to get a tach if you dont already have one... as you cant really tell engine RPM by sound...

now for the jerky part.... are we talking about geting on the gas then back off? shifting gears?

is this your first manual?

 

Theres a RPM gauge but it does not have a light to tell you when to shift is what i meant. The jerky part is when your in say third gear and you apply some gas then let your foot off the gas pedal it will slow down with a little jerkyness. Its my first manual with power, my gf has a stick v6 but its way different then the Camaro. It shifts smooth, The camaro , theres like a 3 second pause in between switching gears

 

what you are descibing as jerky.... seems like it might be normal engine braking in one of these cars...

now this pause between shifting gears... you should be able to shift gears with absolutly no delay ... does the tranny grind at all with the clutch full depressed?

i have driven a couple of T-5s where gear selection was kind of tougher than expected... but this defenitly wont be as smooth as a new manual v6 car

 

Well yes it grinds sometimes, If i rev it to high and dont let the RPms drop before switching gears it usually grinds a bit, then pops into gear... i cant switch fast, i have to let the rpms drop to switch. It goes into all the gears, except reverse if your already running. I usually have to start in reverse...then i can usually depress the clutch and put it into first gear and so on. This car is weird a?

 

no not weird... just old sounds like it needs synchros... ie tranny rebuild

 

'

Thanks a ton for the help , Im gonan take it to the shop maybe tomorrow, will keep you posted to what THEY have to say but i dont know what synchros are but you sound like you know what your talking about

 

Back again i confirmed the clutch still spins while the pedal is depressed, if i hold the shift handle half way into a gear and listen you can still hear the gear spinning, and if you leave it halfway into the gear with the clutch depressed, in time it will start making grinding noises. So im do beilve its not the transmission. or you cant tell if it is because the clutch is not full disengaging. Can you confirm this note by what i have told you. It goes into 1-5 fine....you can go in reverse if you start in it....once started in reverse u can take it out and put it into first and go. FYI the car has been parked...i took it for only 1-3 test drives to provide more information. Thanks to all and to all a good day~!

 

HAS THE CLUTCH FORK BALL STUD EVER BEEN CHECKED ??? YOU HAVE NEVER SAID ??? sounds like NO to me . i have tried to explain , because i went through the same stuff . CHECK IT !!!! if you like just keep pouring money into it till a real mechanic finds the problem for you . CHECK IT OUT DAMNIT.

 

I feel your pain, as I had a somewhat similiar problem after I had a new clutch put in by a transmission shop (years ago), that was incompetent and dishonest. I couldn't drive it away from the shop. Hard to get into gear (1st or reverse) to get going, but once going, not quite as hard to shift gears. Took it back 2 more times to this bad shop, who couldn't / wouldn't fix it, blaming the transmission eventually. As they specialized in transmissions, they should know. Right? Wrong. I wasn't very mechanically inclined at the time, but the simple fact was that I had absolutely no trouble with my transmission in the past, so to have it screw up right after a clutch replacement, was very unlikely! (You seem to understand your transmission is probably fine, if it didn't have a prior problem - so don't let anyone get you off track). Regardless, not that I'd let them touch my transmission, but this 1st shop didn't even want to work on the transmission. THAT told me that they didn't believe their own diagnosis.

Anyway, I had to take it to a 2nd shop, who found my clutch plate / flywheel (?) had shattered - bad workmanship. First shop either didn't turn my flywheel, or replace a bad part, or something. Paid another $450 (plus tow). Did extensive research and took the first shop to Small Claims Court -won, but it was a very frustrating time. Most shops don't want to testify against another shop. There's not much pay in it, and reputations can be at stake.

In seeking advice from others at the time, I heard some of the same things.
"It's the transmission." - Well, maybe a transmission problem could have the same symptoms, but not likely if it didn't have it before, and in my case, all it took was a competent clutch replacement by a good mechanic to fix everything). HAVE YOU EVER HAD PROBLEMS WITH YOUR TRANSMISSION?

"A new or dirty clutch will smooth out in a few weeks." Perhaps this is true, I don't know. But if you're going to take a wait and see approach, document your problems in a certified letter to the shop that replaced the clutch. That way, if it doesn't get totally better, you'll have some evidence that their work had problems from day one, and their response, (if any).

I'm sure the more experienced guys on this board have done a good job of trying to determine your problem, and gave helpful advice. But if you can't figure out the problem yourself, you should probably take it to a different shop anyway. Regarding legal recourse, if the first shop did something wrong, you're either gonna need their professional opinion / statement of such a position, to testify as a witness, or a mechanical background and training yourself - which it sounds like you don't have. If you find the problem yourself, and it is costly and shows evidence that the 1st shop did poor work, it will be your word against theirs.

- I used to know very little about cars, and every few years would have to take any major job, like a clutch replacement, to a shop. Several bad shops later, (or good but expensive ones), and I now work on almost everything myself. Do I make mistakes. Yes. But I'd rather take the risk that I'm gonna replace good parts, or ruin them, or do a job several times, than to have the same thing happen because of a bad shop. I'm getting experienced, have pride in my work, and am saving a lot of money. So, when you initially had a bad clutch, and was wondering if you should try to replace it yourself - I'd say yes. But now that you have already taken it to one shop, and it doesn't work right, you need to look forward and consider:
A. The likelihood that the 1st shop did something wrong, and what you're going to do about if. Bad things happen to good shops. Perhaps they did nothing wrong, but they put in a defective part, from their supplier. Or maybe your car does have a transmission problem, or other unrelated problem, which is not their fault.

So, yes, try to figure out what is wrong, and fix it if you can / if you think that's the wisest choice. But if you have to take it to a 2nd shop - that's what you have to do, and don't feel like a fool. Trust your instincts. Take it back to the first shop if you feel they know what they're doing - basically if you trust them. What's most important to you - the cheapest fix, the quickest fix, the easiest fix, or that you are assurred that your clutch job was done right, and IF it wasn't, that the shop is made to fix it right or return your money? Good luck. (Sorry I wasn't more mechanically helpful).

 

Well the shop just called and they told me the clutch pedal assembly is worn out and needs to be replaced, along with the master cylinder. Gonna cost 700$ Hmm been trying to think if i should get it done, i asked him if it would fix me not being able to go in reverse and switch gears, he said it should as long as i didn't screw up the clutch. ..hmmmm any opinions on the situation at hand?

 

Just got the car back its all fixed, turned out the clutch pedal assembly. was really worn and the bolt was half way gone, also the master cylinder had to be replaced because it was not very secure. Just thought i let you all know. Thanks for da advise.

Im outta here