Hey all. Please bear with me and my anxiety in my engine replacement project. Thanks! I'm as nervous as a new Mother with her new baby. Just got done putting a new (reman) L98 (350) in my 91 Trans Am GTA, by myself. (Bought the car 3 mo. ago w/ a bad 350, so I've never heard it run). As a somewhat inexperienced person, I've been careful to follow the books and advice of others. Of course, I've run into all kinds of trouble along the way - rain, heat, bugs, rust, cuts, grease, hard to find parts, dropped bolts, seemingly inaccessible areas, etc. We've all been there. But my biggest concern has always been that after all this hard work and expense, that there would be something wrong with my new engine. So, perhaps I'm a little paranoid. 2 questions:

1. OIL PRIMING: One of my biggest issues has been over priming my new engine w/ oil. People seem divided over whether it's necessary to prime this SBC, and if so, by what method. (Some say, if the engine was built right, and based on a roller cam, you just need to have 5 quarts in it, w/ the filter full, and perhaps crank the motor over w/ the starter, before connecting the ignition to actually start. My motor manufacturer says this is acceptable (course, they don't care - they can easily blame dry start on the customer, or worse case, give a replacement long block - which doesn't pay for the weeks of hard work and doing everything twice.)

Others say you should prime it with a drill and an old modified dist. or priming tool. (I used an old 3/8 drill and priming tool). About burnt out my drill, so I bought a new cheapie, and it started to smoke after 4 minutes of running the priming tool! I believe I have oil pressure, based on the great resistence to drills during the priming procedures. Also, I initially installed the new oil filter dry, and when I removed the filter to install my stock oil cooler, I found the priming tool had filled the filter with oil.

Others say it's good ins. to go further and take the valve covers off to make sure oil is getting to the lifters, to verify it's working right. I did this and am only getting oil on the left (drivers) side, not the pass. side. One mechanic felt something had to be wrong w/ the motors lube system, but the motor manufacturer and another old timer both said the distributor has to be in for oil to travel to the other side and/or priming w/ a drill won't produce enough pressure to get oil to the other side. They had me turn the motor over by hand a bit, and prime with it in different places, which didn't help.

I got to the point where I said, a decision needs to be made to go further (and continue installing the engine), or rent / buy a pressure priming oil system. Two calls to the motor manufacturer and the auto parts store, and I decided to continue installing parts. Since I didn't build the long block motor, I am told that there is virtually nothing I could have done wrong to make oil only go to one side. Right?

I recently did a search on oil priming, and it seems there is a plug / plugs in the block, where, if not threaded all the way in (by the motor manufacturer), can block / reduce oil pressure. Since I put in a new oil pressure gauge w/ the new motor, guess I will watch it closely when I start the motor for the first time. Stock gauge goes from 0-60, w/ the red mark somewhere under about 10. Should 10 seconds of running the motor at a slightly higher RPM, maybe 2000, be enough to register full oil pressure - or if I don't get it within the 1st 10 seconds, is that long enough to destroy an engine? Should I run it just for a few seconds, then turn it off and remove the right (pass. side) valve cover, to see if in fact, oil is finally coming to that side? If you own the same motor stock, you may know that I hate to do that because there's so much air valve pollution crap to remove, just to remove the dang valve cover on that side. Also, it's gonna scratch up my new paint job. But, considering the importance of oil vs. hassle and paint, guess I will. I assume motor should be off when I remove the valve cover, or oil (if flowing) will spurt everywhere, ruining my clean engine status?

2. TYPICAL CRANKING BEHAVIOR:
Yesterday, I believe I finally finished installing, connecting, and checking everything. Haven't started the engine yet. Put 3 gallons of 50/50 antifreeze water in, not spilling a drop, and looked for leaks. Thought I had a small one on bottom of car frame under radiator, but after drying w/ paper towel, it didn't return. Will watch and add more when it flows. Checked the oil level. Says 1 quart over, which doesn't completely make sense, but is possible I installed one too many, but given my oil dipstick and oil pump installation dillemas, so I'll drain one out, and make sure the correct amount is in, when I change the oil in just a few miles after engine break in. Connected fully charged battery, after cleaning terminals and grounds to block and frame. New starter installed too, as well as fuel filter, air filter, PCV.

In order to check for fuel leaks, I turned the ignition on. No fuel leaks. With ignition coil removed so engine wouldn't start, I cranked the engine over for a few seconds, to ensure engine oil priming, and also to listen for any abnormal sounds that could be associated to my flexplate to torque converter issue (My TC initially didn't pull forward into my crankshaft properly, as I described in the below link. I think I had a small ding, but after rotating TC while easing forward, I think I got through that issue).

Anyways, when I cranked my new engine over, it rotated a little, at an OK speed, then stopped. That is, it practically stopped rotating momentarily, and I released the key, concerned (maybe needlessly) that something was wrong. I decided to turn the key over again, to try to determine if engine was actually seized / prevented from turning by something (such as my torque converter / flexplate issue, or my concerns over no complete oil circulation). The 2nd cranking was the same as the first. It cranked over as you'd expect any engine to, then stopped / paused at one spot, before resuming cranking. Did this a third time before coming in to think about it. In the 1980's, my family had a 75 and 79 Trans Ams, with a 350, and 401 engine respectively. The cranking behavior of the 350 engine in our 75 TA sometimes acted the same as my current new engine, depending on the temperature of the engine and the weather I guess. My old man always said that this was normal for the engine. As a teenager, I doubted it, as the engine was abused and neglected, and as a perfectionist, I felt a good starter and battery should turn a motor over fast.

My Dad passed away years ago. Since then, for the last 20 years, I have always owned 4 cylinder cars, with powerful batteries. If an engine would not immediately start for some reason, (flooded, out of gas, or not tuned), the starter would always turn the engine over at a very constant rate. (Until, of course, the last few seconds of final cranking attempts when the battery would really start to die). This reinforced my belief that my Dad was wrong about the cranking behavior of our old 75 TA with its tired 350. But now that I have a new (reman) 350 engine, new battery and starter, I can't help but wonder if my Dad was right. If you guys disconnect your ignition cable, and turn your motor over cold, how does it turn - fairly fast and constant, or variable, depending on the compression and exhaust strokes or other factors? Opinions please. Thanks! (Sorry about doubting you Dad, if so.)

-Below is link on my previous torque converter not mateing with flexplate issue:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ml#post3459900

 

Try retarding your timing.

 

Thanks for your reply, (any and all are welcome). I assume your timing retard advice is referring to my previous TA from years back that cranked oddly.

Because, in my current 1991 TA and its 350, maybe you missed the fact (understandable, given my lengthy post) that I've got the ignition coil wire unplugged. Turning the engine over with the starter, with it unplugged, wouldn't the timing setting, advanced or retarded, be irrelevant? (Or is it me that is retarded?) Thanks!

- My ECI label says base timing should be 6 degrees, with the advance plug in disconnected. I was just going to connect the ignition wire and try to start her, but found that I do indeed have a very slow radiator leak, near the top, around the top transmission cooling line fitting area. Again, I just got the car, so I don't know the history. I need to investigate further, but apparently, the antifreeze slowly seaps out, then due to the ribs on the plastic side of the radiator, down the side and goes down. (Otherwise, if the leak was on the radiator's metal fins, I would have seen it earlier before I re-installed the radiator after my engine replacement). I still have the hood off, and even though I have plastic over the engine and most everything, the rain last night also made it harder to confirm the leak. Guess I will have to buy a new radiator. (I don't like the stop-leak products, and assume it can't be welded by a shop). Thanks!

 

Update: Coolant leak may have just been a slightly loose heater hose, on the radiator, just above the transmission cooler line area. Some relief.

Also, the starter is now turning over the motor much faster.

HOWEVER, Since I didn't need a radiator, and it's cranking faster, I decided to connect the ignition wire and I just tried to start the car, and it wouldn't. Sometimes it had a very slight backfire, but not much of anything really. I have the distributor bolt slightly loose, so I twisted the dist. some, and tried again, and so on, 4 times. Now have the battery charger on, while I check wires and such. Have double checked the firing order (about memorized it by now), and the plug wires, which are used. The dist. cap and rotor are also used, so perhaps I will get new ones. I can hear the fuel pump turn on and have replaced the fuel filter, as well as the oil pressure sensor above the oil filter (and all other sensors that mount directly on an engine). I read a previous post where two wire connections, that use the same type connection, on the ignition were reversed, so I'll look into that. Any tips? Thanks guys!!!

 

You need to determing why it isnt starting.


Get an inline spark tester. Verify fuel pressure at the rail, and also verify that the injectors are pulsing with a test light.

 

Thanks. Just got back from the auto parts stores 3 trips for a cap, rotor, and ignition coil. Haven't put them on yet. Advance Auto Parts gave me the wrong rotor - just one part # off, but when I got home just happenned to notice that it was MUCH smaller - would have fit on, but never would have made contact. Glad my habit is to always compare new to old parts. I usually also try to bring the old parts in when I buy new, to prevent this, but didn't this time. They didn't have my ignition coil (of course), so had to go to O'Riellys for that, whose "house" brand that I got was only $15, compared to $45 and $55 for others w/ greater warranties. Furthermore, when I took off my old dist. cap, noticed that the center ignition terminal inside had broke off - a little peice of it was inside. I believe it broke when I was trying to pull the old plug wires off, and I leaned against the cap. Either way, the contacts on the cap and rotor were a little worn and dirty, so I'll put these on and see what happens.

Toehead -
Yeah, I've always heard that you should check the basics - fuel and spark, on a no-start condition, though I haven't done that yet, and will have to research more how it would be done. Regarding fuel - most of my fuel line emptied at the engine end when I disconnected it to remove the engine. I tried to plug it with rubber hoses with bolts in the end, but that didn't work very well. Also, when I replaced the fuel filter in the rear, (putting it in facing the right flow direction), lost more fuel at that end.

I'll post my results either way. But if it doesn't start, I'll have to bother you w/ a question regarding verifying fuel pressure at the rail (like where this is done, and if the tool to do it is common). I can probably figure that out, but I'm especially confused about how to verify the injectors are pulsing with a test light. I know what the injectors look like - I unplugged their electrical connectors to remove the engine. But I've never taken them out, I didn't exactly know they "pulsed", (though that sounds logical) and had never heard of a "test light" to test them. But thanks for the reply - may help.

 

A test light is simply a 12 volt light. You connect it across the two terminals in one of the injector plugs. One terminal of the plug will have +12 whenever the key is on. The other is a computer controlled ground. The computer turns "on" the injector by grounding that wire. It does this very rapidly, based on fueling calculations. If you put a test light across the two terminals, it should flash, indicating that the ECM is indeed seeing a RPM signal and commanding the injectors to fire.


The fuel rail has a schraeder valve (almost like a bike tire) that you can hook up a gauge to. It is a common tool.

 

Thanks Toehead. I'm still trying to get it going. So far, I took off the old cap and rotor, and put new ones on. Before I did, I cleaned the metal device on the distributor that's directly underneath the rotor, (name?) it's triangles with 3M contact cleaner, electrical grade and a paper towel and cotton swabs. It was somewhat rusty. Then just a little WD-40, and blew it out with compressed air. New rotor went on considerably harder than old one - even lining it up on the inside. Looked around for any other electrical wires not connected but didn't find any. Was careful to put new cap on correctly, to make sure no wires were blocking it, and tightened its 2 screws down. Then reattached the center coil wire and spark plugs again - which I previously numbered on both ends, to their respective position on the cap, in the firing order, after putting a little dielectric grease in them. All wires clicked down into position. Tried to start car - same as before - little backfires. Moved dist. a little and tried again, no difference. Any idea how many degrees difference moving the dist. one dist. wire contact length may be?

I didn't put the new ignition coil on yet. Although I marked the old ignition coil wires before I removed it, it was not originally properly mounted on its shared bracket, so perhaps I've got its 2 connecters reversed - which may be the same connector shape and type. Right? Thinking about reversing them on the old ignition coil - in case doing so would damage the coil. Any idea on that?

I will soon go try to buy a fuel gauge to hook up to the shraeder valve. May take a day to find. I say try because I've had to run all over town for many parts and tools. Nobody has some things - out of stock. After my last post, I looked in the book, saw the shraeder valve, and remembered where it was on the engine. I thought that had a different name - like the cold start valve or something? Does a cap normally belong on the Shraeder valve to keep it clean? I had put a little round peice of masking tape over it when I was replacing the engine the last few weeks. I took it off today - it was barely attached, certainly not pressing down on the valve, so I assume that didn't hurt. The Chilton's book has the TPI fuel pressure check first instruction being to relieve the fuel pressure. Why? I guess this is so you avoid any possible fuel spray when connecting a pressure gauge. (Like how you can lose a little air when connecting an air hose on a tire valve). I really didn't want to undo my fuel inlet where the line connects to the intake - lose gas there and ruin the paint on the lines, but I guess I will, if that's the safest method.

I've got several other ideas and things to check (besides those you mentioned).
-When the reman engine (long block) came in its box, I didn't put on my original timing cover, as it was too rusty to clean up. I kept it, but got one from the junkyard, off either a 305 or 350. Do you know if they use the same timing cover (and pointer position)? I believe they are the same, but will look again.
- Before bolting on the timing cover, the yet undisturbed engine appeared to be rotated just a hair past Top Dead Center (TDC), by the timing pointer and the crankshaft / camshaft dots. Also, I marked the in and out positions of the rotor on the distributor before removing it. I did not mark the exact location of where the base of the distributor was in relation to the engine block, as I understand that doesn't matter. Right? The last time I put an engine in a car 20 years (and experience) ago, I had the thing 180 degrees off.
- I already bought a flywheel (flexplate) turner tool. I'm going to rotate the engine to TDC by the timing mark and recheck my distributor marks to see if there's any way it could be 180 degrees off. Don't think so.
- It was strange (to me), how a reman engine turned over and would come to a point where it temporarily slowed down / stopped, before cranking more, and how that disappeared after a few cranks. I'm wondering if cranking the engine over got oil into more places, or if something strange happenned - like breaking a timing chain?

Anyhow, thanks for the help. I've got some work to do. Will post later.

 

NEW potential ISSUE!!! While under car, (with car off and having never started), looking at my flexplate, (auto transmission), noticed that starter gear is still in contact with the flexplate teeth - starter gear didn't retract after last engine starting attempt. Anyone know if this is normal? (Does the starter ring gear get retracted only by the centrifugal force of the flexplate when the engine does start?) If not normal, should I shim? The instructions with the new starter have shimming instructions, but don't mention the starter gear not retracting. Hope it's just a matter of shimming, or a defective starter, and not evidence that I bent or cracked my flexplate when I put the engine in, and initially improperly tightened all 3 torque converter to flexplate bolts, when the TC and flexplate weren't yet touching each other. (I described this mateing issue in a different post).

Sidenote: When installing the starter, after putting in the 2 main starter to engine bolts, I broke the tiny bolt head on the new starter that attaches to the support brace. Couldn't believe it snapped leaving half in starter - given the amount of force I was tightening it - must be poor grade metal! I would've taken the lifetime warranty starter back right away, but it was / is very difficult to remove and install a starter, without the exhaust manifold disconnected on that side. - No room.

 

Hopefully you didnt break the timing chain... May want to crank without the distributor cap to verify that it is indeed turning.

The rusty thing you cleaned is the pickup coil (vr sensor)

The little backfires seem to suggest a timing rather then fueling issue.

 

Thanks all. I got her started and everything seems normal, except a looping idle, which I'll work on, and make a new post if need be. Had the distributor 180 off (wouldn't you know). Seems like this is a mistake I make everytime I put an engine in. Also, after moving the dist., I didn't have the dist. down all the way, to turn the oil pump. Glad I saw that before starting.

Regarding oil pressure, I found that with the plugs out, just cranking the motor over with a starter produces full oil pressure, but with the plugs in, it doesn't. With the motor idling, I'm at 45 on the cars oil pressure gauge, and higher when I rev. Normal?

Also, the new engine cranks normally now - it just had a hesitation the 1st 3 times, not sure why. Furthermore, I oiled my new starter -and it's gear retracts now, regardless of whether the engine starts or not. Will use shims later if that seems appropriate per the instructions. Starter is hard to remove with the exhaust connected - no room, so I don't want to replace it with another new one, just because I have a small broken support bracket bolt (not one of the 2 primary bolts).

-Yeah, it takes me longer to figure things out, and I make more mistakes, but I learn a lot. A whole lot! I trusted my instincts, but perhaps not enough. Everytime I thought something was likely wrong, it usually was, (I just didn't have the right fix the first time).

What's really good is that I met a thirdgen member at my local parts store, so maybe I'll get together with him and we can work together, and I'll learn more. Thanks again!