Here's the story...I own a '89 GTA and was on my way home from work this morning when all of a sudden my car shuts off; luckily I was able to park it safely in a parking lot! I looked under the hood and didnt notice anything out of the ordinary until I decided to check the radiator fluid and found my radiator was empty due to my clumsy a** not tightening it all the way and right there what came to mind was a overheated starter (the engine wasnt actually as hot as I though it was either) so I proceeded to refill the rad and while waitng for my brother to arrive for a ride back home, I tried starting the car once more to see if it would start and nothing; the engine does turn though! My brother had to pull me back home in his blazer and luckily it wasnt far from were the car stopped. Once I got the car home and looked under the hood again, I noticed the wires to the oxygen sensor harness were burned off at the header so what I did was basically reconnect them thinking that was the problem and tried restarting the car but nothing!! I already inspected the spark plug wires, coil, and dizzy and it looks legit! Since the car just stopped while I was driving, could it be a relay or someting? Help me out here guys..this is my daily driver! Thanks in advance!

 

Nothing as in no noise at all? The starter doesn't try to engage? Or it tries to engage but the engine doesn't turn. Kinda sounds like it might be seized.

 

Try a shot of carb cleaner or starter fluid down the throttle body and have someone try to start the car. If it starts or tries, you have a fuel problem.

 

Yeah the engine does turn and the starter is on its way out but it still engages! A friend suggested I do a spark test with a screw driver to check for a spark and there is spark present luckily so ignition must not be the issue! When doing the spark plug test, I would get the smell of coolant while cranking the engine! can there be coolant inside my engine? Already tried starter fluid and all it does is turn....giving it a little gas does nothing either! Would the car just shut off like that while driving if its a fuel problem?

 

let the turn key, not to start but to turn on the electronics. Listen for the fuel pump, you'll be able to hear it from the inside of the car with the radio shut off OR you can have someone listen at the rear by the gas tank for the fuel pump. If you can hear it, then it works but if you dont....then you have a dead fuel pump. Also check the fuel filter, it could be clogged.



Hope this helps

 

Yeah I'll definately check on the fuel pump and filter later on today cuz I need it running asap; im kind of questioning the filter since i replaced it no too long ago but anything can happen! Ill post up on my situation later! Thanks!

 

Check the oil for presence of coolant.

Might have blown a head gasket when it overheated.

 

I will also check for a blown head gasket today too! now that u mentioned a blown head gasket, would a car just shut off while driving when something like that happens? Not trying to be a paniccing pansy but I just cant get over the fact that my car would go from driving to off in a split second because its never happened to me before and I cant seem to come up with a logical explanation as to what might have caused it! I appreciate the feedback guys! hopefully I'll have my GTA running by tomorrow!

 

Today I checked for the presence of coolant and found nothing ! Checked the fuel pump relay and it looks fine. I also checked for the fuel pump powering on in the gas tank.....your supposed to hear a faint "click" right? Something suspicious that I found was a 2-prong male end of a harness but couldn't find the female end...what it goes to I have no idea! Its coming out of one of the plastic wire wraps by the dizzy! it looks as if it hasnt been plugged into anything for a while cuz its a little dusty but I could be wrong! The harness looks like one that is plugged into the duzzy in between the firewall....if u need to I can rovide a pic. A freind of mine whos good with cars is going to come check it out tomorrow to see if we can get it running! If all goes well, I'll post up the problem and solution. Thanks again!

 

You are supposed to hear teh fuel pump run... It shoul dbe very obvious when/if it does.

 

You should hear a buzzing noise for about 3-5 seconds. Thats the fuel pump.

 

Well I didnt hear a buzzing noise so it must be my fuel pump. Ever since I bought the car about 3 months ago, its always hesitated a bit on start up! Would a fuel pump that is going bad cause hesitation on startup?

 

Yes. I had my fuel pump go out in my firebird like 7 months ago. It would hesitate to start and sputter, eventually it got worse and then sputtered and died. Fuel pumps dont cost much at the local autozone or kragens BUT mechanics charge a lot for labor because they have to drop the rear end to reach the fuel pump. The Fuel pump is located in the gas tank. At least thats where it is in my 91 firebird.

If you have a mechanic friend he might be able to help you drop that rear and swap out that fuel pump. It would save a lot of $$$

 

actually you dont even need a mechanic, i do this at school,i havent done it on a third gen but it's the same concept in every car all you gotta do is put the car on a lift (if you have access) if not, just jack it up enough so when you drop the tank you can pull it out, then look around and disconnect the fuel lines, the filler neck and the evap hose in the tank and any wires going to it, hold the tank or have a freind or two help you while you unbolt the metal straps, lower the tank to the ground and you'll see the fuel pump sittin on top, un bolt it and pull it out, and if your worried about spilling gas on yourself i dont suggest tipping it over. I havent looked lately but if i remember alldata says it should take like 2-3 hours but you can get em done in 1, just rmember not to do anyhting stupid and jack up any fuel lines, or break somthing you cant fix lol. Then you just gotta buy the new pump, put it in, and reinstall in by doing the process in reverse

All you need is a standard socket set, a pick for the hoses if they're stuck on from heat(or a razor blade and new line) and a few rags

Dont take my word 100% cuz theres tricks to each vehicle so there might be a few extra steps in there about getting to it, ^that is just the general job

Enjoy lol

 

Ok cool! so all signs lead to a dead fuel pump! I really appreciate your input on this guys hopefully Ill get this thing running today; now that u mentioned dropping the axle, it might take more than 3 hours but my buddy sould be up to the task! Ill let you guys know what happens! Thanks again! L8r!

 

from what you have described it sounds like the pump may be bad, i would check fuel pressure & volume first.

a thirdgen fuel pump isn't the easiest pump to replace by a long shot.
without a lift, its harder, but many people here have done it.
first you want to get as much gas out of the tank as you can.
jack the back of the car up, a lot. you have to use jack stands under the frame because you have to drop the rear end down, leave the lower arms connected. the exhaust also needs to be gotten out of the way. then pull
the heat shields, pan hard bar & brace.

the filler neck is part of the tank & can't be removed from the tank. remember to remove the screws under the gas door that hold the filler neck in place & to put them back in when you put it back together.
be careful when dropping the tank, or you can damage the filler neck & windup with a fuel leak.

before you go to the trouble of dropping the tank, lift the carpet behind the back seat & see if a pervious owner may have cut the floor pan open to replace the pump.
you can find pics of where to look here,
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...cces-done.html

i do not recommend cutting a hole in the floor pan for some of the same reasons given in the above thread.
but its a shame GM wasn't smart enough to build these cars with an access panel to start with.

 

Spraying starter fluid into the intake should have made the car try to start. If the car had no reaction to the starter fluid, your fuel pump may not be the problem.

Turning the key to on without cranking over the motor will make the pump run for a moment until pressure in the gas line is high. Then the pump will shutoff. If the pressure was already adequate the pump won't run.

Those are the only holes I can shoot into the fuel pump theory.

For the record, I suspect your fuel pump or power to it.

 

Ok so my buddy couldn't show up today which means I'll have to wait until tommorrow. Tried the fuel pump test once more (since it was actually quieter
this time) and found that the faint clicking that I heard came from the engine compartment..might be the alternator but as far as the fuel pump; no buzzing what so ever just silence! I looked at the fuses and they're good! My car does have leaky injectors which obviously let out the smell of gas but I don't even get the faintest smell anymore . Another thing I should point out is that I tried pulling trouble codes today to see if anything would come up but the car wouldnt go into "diagnostic mode" when I grounded the 'a' and 'b' terminals and put the key in on (not cranking it)! Sorry for leaving this out but when I spray starter fluid it and crank it, it'll "hiccup" or kinda want to start but ends up just turning and turning!

 

before u change the fuel pump check ur ECM fuse.it happen to my bro firebird we replace the fuel pump and all find out it was a da*m fuse

 

Yeah sounds like the pump, or the fuse.

 

Already checked the f/p fuse as well as the ecm fuse and they're still intact!

 

Good grief, 20 posts letting this guy pull his tank without diagnosing the problem first?!?! This is what the site has become?

Power the damn pump through the ALDL first, if you are sure the fuse underhood and relay are ok. Test fuel pressure. I've seen the same symptoms and the cause be a faulty MAF relay. Damn.

 

Excuse my ignorance but how do I power the f/p through the ALDL?

 

12v to the 'G' terminal.

 

Will do! thanx!

 

Ok! My friend came over and took a look at the car! turns out it is the fuel pump! He performed 2 tests: one was to have me crank the car while he was letting out the pressure at the access port on the fuel rail and the result was no pressure and some gas barely spilling out! the other test was to have me crank it while he sprayed starter fluid into the throttle body; he continued to spray fluid which kept the car running a bit until he stopped spraying; then it shut off! so now its time for a new fuel pump! Tomorrow hes going to come over to get the job underway...ill post up on the results! thanx! later!

 

Update: I decided to have my freind cut a access door to the f/p since I don't have the proper equipment to do it "right" and paying $400 to a mechanic is not an option! Unfortunately, he was pressed for time so he only got to cut the door out. Tomorrow he'll finish cutting the rest of the door as well as install the new fuel pump (with new hoses and clamps of course)! I Will post the results tomorrow! L8R!

 

What's he going to do when he get's in there? Cut all the steel fuel lines and patch them with hoses? That's a bad idea (unsafe).

 

somebody in my town had an old pick-up truck. The fuel pump went out. He didnt want to spend more on a new fuel pump than he did on the truck. So he went to autozone and got an inline universal pump for $20. He got a few feet of cheap line too. He got a 5gal gas can from the gas station. He ran the fuel line through the plug in the firewall like a power cable for a subwoofer. He plugged it straight on to the fuel rail. Then he put the pump inline, and ran the line into the gas can which sat in the passenger seat. The pump was wired to 12v with a toggle switch.

 

Yeah but I'm not the only one thats done it! Check this link out! https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tp...cces-done.html

 

lol, excellent way to die young. People just don't realize how dangerous gasoline is. Especially the high pressure fuel injected feed line. If that hose slips off, bursts, or tears in a collision, the pump will dump a whole lot of gas under your car in a hurry.

If you insist on using hose, at least use high pressure FI hose with two clamps on both sides of the feed line. A brass compression fitting would be better though.

 

Your right! what the hell am thinking using a regular rubber hose ! I will pick up a brass compession fitting better! My buddy is gonna come over to finish the job later and I'll let him know also! Thanks for the advice bro!

 

You don't have the "right" tools to do it the right way? A floor jack and basic hand tools? I strongly suggest against doing the access panel.

 

Ok! So my buddy came over and finished the job and low and behold p.o.s. car didnt want to start ! All it did was crank crank crank crank...etc, and thats it! I didnt even hear the pump prime when I put the key in acc. My friend tried powering the pump directly through the power wire from my sound system while I cranked the car and this time it did buzz but still no start up. Since the pump did buzz this time, there was obviously fuel flowing through the lines and pressure present at the access port on the fuel rail; I pushed it in myself to see if there was any and fuel sprayed out but what I cant explain is why the car wouldnt start while I cranked it! My friend stated that the fuel wasnt going passed the injectors and that the relay might be the cuprit but only if the injectors are linked to the relay! Anyone know if they are? I also found out on another thread that the ignition control module signals the f/p when the car is running but I wouldnt blame that since there is spark present...or should I? My starter is on its way out too; it cranks slowly sometimes as well as "clicks" when hot! can it be related to this? Thanks again for the info guys! Hopefully with your help I can get my baby running soon! L8R!

 

Does your car have the security system? Is the light flashing?

 

Yeah it does have the security system and the light does flash when I put it in the "acc" position.

 

Also check the ignition modual. i had the same thing go wrong in my 91.

 

Will do bro! Anyone know if there can still be spark present with a bad ignition module? Thanks again!

 

Quintessential post of the bad of what's happened to the site.

If your security light is flashing I'd say you had a VATS problem. Remember what I said about DIAGNOSING the problem first?

Phoenix boy, try searching a bit and try and diagnose your problem instead of randomly cutting up your car.

 

Lol I knew I was gonna here from u again devil ! Yeah this was a lesson learned I admit and I'm actually not stressing over cutting a access panel for the pump when it wasnt the culprit since its a rebuilt salvage title car.....if it was a clean title, then I would of thought twice about performing surgery on it. VATS problem? Never crossed my mind but it actually makes sense since its purpose is to prevent theft, and what better way to do that than cut the fuel or ignition source (not real sure how it works but just using logic) and that should of been a place to look for a fault too! Thanks dude Ill take a look at the VATS and will keep on searching! This must be why I cant get into diagnostic mode either huh?

 

Or you could have a bad ECM. Don't just replace parts, find the problem.

 

Im not necessarily just going to replace the part (already learned from the fuel pump) Im going to take a look at it and see if anything looks suspicous!Aww crap hopefully its not the ecm! just to get an idea, how much do those run for? I dont know if this is a major or minor detail but the security light doesnt flash when I turn the key.....it just stays on! I stated before that it did flash but I was wrong not to mention that I still cant get into diagnostic mode when I turn the key and the check engine light wont even come on!

 

Update: Today I replaced the ignition control module, cranked the car and noticed that my starter is gasping for breath since it barely turned the engine; its actually been like that since I bought it but luckily I already have a new one waiting to go in tomorrow so if thats not the problem its either going to be the f/p relay, ecm or VATS module. Right now I'm leaning towards the VATS module because when I attempted to crank the engine, I would get the usual "clicks" from the starter, then when it actually did turn on the 10th try, once it stopped cranking, the security light would come on for about 2-3 seconds and then shut off so it must be cutting off the power to the starter and fuel pump! What do u guys think? I was left with a little extra cash to spend from payday and would really appreciate some guidance as to what I should replace next! Thanks again! see ya!

 

if it was a VATS problem, then the starter would not engage.
once the VATS is triggered by the wrong or a bad key, or some other problem, it locks out the starter for 2~5 minutes depending on which passkey system you have.
when you first turn the key on, the security light should come on for about 2-5 seconds and then turn off, that is the bulb check & is normal.
VATS does not cut power to the fuel pump.
VATS also will not prevent you from being able to pull codes.

a weak battery can cause a no start, the ECM has to have above about 9.6 volts during cranking or it shuts down. a starter that is pulling too many amps can also cause this. bad battery cables can also lead to a voltage drop.
bad grounds are another possible problem area for low voltage to the ECM.

does the check engine light come on when you first turn the key on?

 

No the check engine light doesnt even come on at all anymore ; sorry about that double post my computer was acting up! Thanks for the info DENN_SHAH so that means I can cross the VATS module off my list! Ill post an update after the new starter goes on tomorrow! L8R!

 

said in an earlier post there was no fuel coming from the check valve, do you have enough gas in the tank for the pump to pick up?

 

Yeah I have half a tank in the car Redfire! Good news however, I think I might have found the problem already thanks to the trusty function; turns out that the fuel pump/ecm fuse by the battery (which I didnt know was there) was shot so I replaced it and guess what? the check engine light now comes on as well as the fuel pump now lets out a noticable 'bzzzzzz' but the car now wont turn and the starter wont even 'click' so im thinkin that its just a low battery because when I try to crank it, the lights in the dash as well as the dome light dim so tomorrow Im going to get it recharged and hopefully get to install the starter too since the rain didnt let me today! Keeping my fingers crossed; I will post an update tomorrow! L8R!

 

Ok so I had a little extra time before I went to work tonight so I decided to find out if its actually the battery thats drained (couldnt wait til tomorrow lol). I had my brother put the battery from his blazer into my car, cranked it and the thing almost wanted to fire up; im thinking its just the spark plug wires I switched around the other day b/c they appeared to be connected wrong so I will look into that later on today! I now have pressure at the fuel rail now as well as the smell of gas is now coming from the leaky injectors which is good in this particular case ! I have a real good feeling about tomorrow...hopefully ill get the beast up and running! L8R!

 

Update theres good news and real bad news; good news is that the spark plug wires were put on backwards and the car fired up this time but is idling like s***. Bad news is that when I took it for a test drive, it turned off on me once again about 4 or 5 blocks from the house !! So there I was in some unknown neighborhood in the middle of the street with my hazards on trying to get the car to start again! I checked to see if it was the ecm/fuel pump fuse by the battery but it was intact. The fuel injector fuse on the other hand was shot; the previous owner ran one of the #8 fuel injector wires through the firewall and wrapped it around one prong from the fuse, why he did it I have no clue ! The reason I mention this is because when I found the fuse shot, I quickly thought it was no biggie...all I had to do was put in another fuse and im good to go! wrong! Once I put in another fuse and rewrapped the wire on one of the prongs, I plugged it in, cranked the car and a plume of white smoke suddenly shot out of the fuse panel as well as the wire insulation was toast!; I quickly tried to remove the wire and fuse but got a painful burn on my fingers instead from the wire still bieng hot! I then tried putting in a 30 amp fuse and cranked the the car again but it blew in a snap as well ! Luckily someone came to help me push it to the side of the road but unfortunately had to leave the car there too .. good thing theres an auto electric shop near my house and ill definately be taking it there tomorrow! In the meantime, anyone know why it kept blowing the fuses like that? Thanks again for the info!