http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...cks/index.html

i was actually amazed to see it make that kind of power.

 

Yes, they are nice little engines, but even if only 13% smaller than the 350; once a little brother, always a little brother..
What surprised & confused me in that article was the power it made in stock form; 221hp, even if they claimed it was a dished piston low output engine.. I thought those made only 145hp or so?
I know how important the exhaust can be, but is there really that much to be gained only by the dyno headers & no accessories?

 

One thing that bothered me about the article though was, first, they claim that this could be done on a 305, cheaper than a 350, and in the next breath, they state that all parts would happily transfer over, should you decide to go with the 350.....

Sounds to me like there is NO cost difference at all, and perhaps they were referring to cheaper as "I already have a 305"....... interesting article though.

 

Guys need to read the article a couple more times lol.

 

That's right, they do.

Of course, that's IN A CAR; with factory exhaust, factory air cleaner, all emissions devices installed and operating, etc.

So that gives you a nice "correction factor" right there, for wrapping fenders around a motor: works out to about 1.52. IOW, the motor makes 1.52 times as much power in dyno trim, as it does in stock trim.

So now, take that "372 HP" figure, and apply the "factor" to it, and it becomes 244 HP. IOW, that same motor, installed into the same car that the original one came out of, will make 244 HP at the flywheel. Not so impressive any more, eh?

Now granted, that's a bit extreme; most people wouldn't buy aftermarket heads, a Demon carb, a big cam, and all that other stuff, and do something goofy like leave the LG4 exhaust in the car (although some will and do and have.... ). But still, it kind of puts into perspective why those magazine numbers aren't a "lie" necessarily, but that still doesn't mean that if you duplicated their parts list right down to the color of the paint, that you'd get the same results, IN YOUR CAR. That "372 HP" motor, I would expect, would make about 320 HP in a typical real-world car with typical real-world headers that actually fit a chassis and stuff like that. Not too bad, but still FAR from competitive.

Still, in spite of all that, not too shabby, as far as that goes; but WHY spend ALL THAT MONEY on a "free" 305 shortblock and accept the limitations that come with it, when for another $100 or something, you could be doing it to a junk 350 short block instead of a random equally junk 305 one? Not that the 305 is a "bad" motor, or the 350 is "perfect"; if there was no such thing as a 350, then we'd all be busy wringing every last erg and dyne we could squeeeeze out of our 305s. But that's not how it is: there's this ALTERNATIVE to the 305, that's PLENTIFUL and CHEEEEEP, and is in fact the cheapest HP money can buy. CID.

Remember, the basic hot-rodding equation goes something like this:

$$$$ x CID = HP

Increase either $$$ spent (machine work, attention to details, aftermarket parts) or the CID (amount of fuel you burn per engine cycle), power goes up. It's SO simple and easy to understand, that it's also easy to overlook and outsmart yourself.

Just because a thing is possible, does not automatically mean that it's a good idea; let alone the best choice.

 

im sure its possible, but instead of a 305 they could have built a 350 with an extra $50 and made at least 30-50+ more horsepower. yes, it is different and would be different having a fast 305, but that is not the "different" i want to be. i would rather have more power and be "normal" than less just for the sake of being "different."

i am talking from experiance, i had a lg4 and now i have a 350 (in my current camaro) and would never go back. i actually plan on building a 400 in the near future. more cubes often means more power.

 

Don't worry, even if we are looking at the numbers it doesn't neccessarily mean we are going that way, no need to talk us out of it.
I just thought SAE hp numbers were w/o accessories, and if so it means the exhaust is primarily responsible for the losses. Hm, 66% output..
I should know. My L69 was effectively downgraded to an LG4 when an exhaust shop put on a 2-2.25" system.. It falls flat on it's face around 3600 rpm whereas before it would pull strong past 5000.. It was before I knew anything about the requirements of my engine.. $ucks a lot, it will have to wait quite some time still before I can give priority to fixing it..
But talking about small motors and hp numbers; you know the small nitro-methanol 2-cycle glow-plug model engines? 3.5cc giving 2.5hp @ 32000rpm. Put 1628 of'em around a big cogwheel and you have a 350 with 4070hp.. Now that's big numbers for a n/a small cylinder engine..

 

I defnitely agree with Sofa on this one. Look where they started from and where they finished. The DIFFERENCE between the two will tell you more about the real improvements than the raw numbers will. It's still an impressive gain (125+ HP) but I wouldn't hold out hopes of running bottom 12s in your 3rd gen street driver with that combo.

 

Agree with Sofa and Damon. First of all the numbers are quite good BUT lets put this thing in perspective. The 305 motor on the engine dyno is making almost 1.22hp/cubic inch. We have 355 TPI cars making that much here in California and with smog legal cars at that. That includes all accessories, and full exhaust including catalytic converters.

 

Yep, yep, & yep.

Been over this many, many times.

Had they just done the cam, intake & carb, along with the dyno support stuff, the results would have been similar. The heads probably helped some, but their comments about stock heads choking a 305 is just plain wrong - unless they started with late-70's 305 heads with 1.72" intake valves (many truck 350's had heads with that size valves) - their engine had a cast iron intake manifold, which no US-delivered 3rd gen 305 had.

Very definitely a stacked deck.

 

actually the cheapest way to buy hp is nitrous. lol you may blow that ****er up but hey at least you had a 400 hp 305 for 2 seconds me personally after owning a third gen there are plenty of things i would have done different. too many to list. i don't believe in spending thousands upon thousands of dollars on a car just to do 12's or so. i think it's cooler to spend the least amount of money on a car that can go just as fast as someone who has paid out the *** for mods.

 

Speaking of that, I wonder how the "Junkyard Dog" is coming?

 

I've built a couple of QUICK 305s for street driven vehicles. They can be FAST, just need a good setup. 305s like to be overcammed to an extent, have looser converters, and good gears, remind me of the LSx engines.

 

The "J Y D" is under a foot of snow waitin' for April to arrive.

 

you guys talking about the f bird that used a 2 bolt main junk yard 350 and is doing 800 to the wheels with the help of turbo?

 

That would be funny but no... If it makes 390-400+/- hp I'll be more than happy.

 

this guy has done it
http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/in...&topic=61219.0

 

Yes, turbos make amazing power. The 372hp/305 is low 13 high 12sec capable in a stripped down third gen with stiff 4.56:1 gears and a 4000 stall converter and open long headers with slicks.

 

not bad.

 

I agree thats its not bad for a 305. Whatever you loose when you put this engine to use in a car is the same you would loose on some mail order 350.

 

Does anybody know of any pages like this where they used a 305 with tuned port injection?

 

The TPI 305 in my signature put down 257 RWHP @ 5,000 and 318 RWTQ @ 3,600 rpm.

That is roughly 300 FWHP @ 5,000 and 360 ft/lbs of torque.

So far it has pulled a 5,500# G20 van with 3.08 gears to a 14.9 @ 93 with a 2.06s 60' time and gets 19-21 mpg running 70-75 mph on the road.

 

I'm sorry, but, I just have a hard time picturing a full-size van running the quarter mile. It just seems...... wrong.... And I am not sure I understand the reasoning for it....... But, it's early, and I am still fuzz-brained. (I am not ragging on you here, it just paints a rather interesting picture in my mind. Actually, I think it is kinda humorous.)

On the other hand, TPI V-8 in a van makes perfect sense. The torque enhancing properties of the induction system would make the van an absolute pleasure to drive. Excellent Idea. (and gives me ideas about the extra TPI manifold and such I have lying around, and the G20 extended Brick in the driveway....... Hhhhhhmmmmmm.

 

Well, imagine anyone that has to go back and confess they got outrun by a Damn VAN!
He's got VIDEOS to motivate you.
Ya gotta admit, it's fast for a van...
My favorite:"The Burnout"
I think we could take up a collection to get him a 3rd gen body if he wasn't having so much fun with the van...

 

The extra mid-range torque is nice, but it is a little soft on torque around town compared to the TBI. But I run mostly highway and like to cruise at high speeds. It runs GREAT at 80-85 mph in OD.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...?highlight=tpi

I can drive a third gen just about any time I want and have owned a couple about 5 years ago.

 

Did you ever consider doing a OBDII conversion? Seems several folks have put OBDII TPI into S-10 Blazers, and are absolutely amazed at the results. Better fuel economy, better power band (to some extent) and smoother running. (which I though was a bit of a stretch, as the TPI is pretty smooth in my bird anyway.... but, no direct experience, so, I will withhold judgment.)

I may go this route when the 4.3 takes a dump. It does have 190k+ miles on it....

 

Fast, any videos of your brothers cammed up TBI 305 camaro? It's a 12 second car right?

 

Fast355 isn't the only screaming van I've seen. They can run the 1/4 excellent, but anything more than that (or once they hit a certain mph) the wind resistance puts a halt on their performance. There was a guy at my old job who had a mirror black paint job on a G20, all chrome with TT2's. Tinted the windows, and had a chrome skull in the tow hitch that lit up when he hit the brakes. Had a built 383 in it. Pretty badass van.