toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

hello everyone

here is my plan, I would like to do a head,cam, intake swap, for my 350
for a 95% street car and once in a while will see a track.

I have picked out these parts so far.
~ AFR 195 street eleminator's heads
~holly stealth ram intake( wich im planning to buy from a tgo memeber)
have not picked a cam yet, but im looking for something that works well on the street but still give me good power band.



I know I need gaskets. but what thinkness do i want to go with? Or do I find out after I do compressin test.

Which injuectors should I go with?

How do I find out what chamber size to go with? the 65cc or the 75cc?

Ive read that i can now uses pereminter valve covers so. do all of em fit? Or just the tall style ?

what eles am I forgetting about?

thanks

mo

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

With the cam, I'd say something in the 220-225 intake duration. A 36lb injector should be fine, but could go low 40's to leave some extra room. Probably want to go with a 65cc chamber and a .04x" gasket should work fine to get around 9.8:1-10:1 compression. Tall valve covers should only be needed for a stud girdle that you likely wont get. You may not need tall ones even with a girdle as I believe they make those heads with a raised flange anyway.

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

what #'s should I be looking to get with this set up?

impaled

remember if you get a higher duration cam, along with it comes a higher powerband, and you will most likely need a higher stall. figure that into things.

fast82z

iTrader: (1)

I'm looking at putting together a similar setup, and it looks like 360rwhp/450hp should be about what it will make. Have the car setup for it, and low 12's shouldn't be a problem.

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

hmm... higher stall didnt even think about it? how high of a stall do I want? and what brand stal is goood?

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

anyone?

impaled

here are some cam options... i think you would do best with a solid roller.

a little bit milder, but should be pretty streetable. 2000-6000 powerband (2500-2800 convertor).

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...8&autoview=sku

a little more radical. 2500-6500 (3000 convertor)

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...8&autoview=sku

this would be my personal choice... Comp XE. w/3000-7000 powerband.
i know alot of people have liked this cam in the past. i would recommend 3500 convertor.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...8&autoview=sku

as far as torque convertors the best choice would be around 500 RPM or more past the bottom end of the cam's power curve.

as far as brands for torque convertors go, i am by no means an expert when it comes to GM automatic transmissions. all i know is that you get what you pay for, dont cheap out, if you do and it can cause major damage. check out this site...

https://www.700r4l60e.com/store/prod...4&cat=0&page=1

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

bump i got money now!

Rolling Thunder

Well if i may make a suggestion alot of this stuff seems to run in the 2500-6500 range about. Now you mentioned this is going to be a 95% of the time driven on the street. Now im not saying that this combo isnt streetable because this combo would make a nice street strip motor. Although judging by the fact that 95% of the time this is going to be driven on the street seems to me that this probably isnt the best choice. I mean this will have probably about 400-450 hp but you sacraficing a fair amount of low end torque to achieve this and low end torque is what youll feel 95% of the time when your takeing off from a stop light. Fuel economy may not be of real concern but again for a daily driven street car the sacrafice may not give you any added benifit as you dont spend much time in the high RPMs where this motor would run most efficiently. Throttle responce again will not be as good as a tamer set up. I mean i could go on for days like this for a mostly street car i think you would be much happier with a more tame motor with NOS for track days. That way you would have a great daily driver that can throw down the same numbers at the track as a more extencivly modified less street friendly motor. Just my oppinnion though.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

You adding this to your L98 stock shortblock or are you going with a built bottom end with a decked block?

if stock bottom end, and stock deck height, use a .028" gasket like mr gaskets ultra seal or similar. GM has a composite one too. Pistons are down .020-.025" in the hole as it is from the factory. A .028 gasket will give a quench of .048" to .053" which isnt too bad. Optimal is generally around .040.

If you get the block freshened up, get it zero decked to 9" deck height and run a MLS .040" gasket for that good quench.

Run as much compression as you can get but dont go over 11 to 1.

I feel this is going on your L98 as it is, so go with the 65cc chamber and run that .028" gasket and make sure your deck is CLEAN. thin gaskets need good clean deck to seal good. This will help get your compression up.

If this is a 95% street car then you may be better off with AFR 180s on that L98. 195's are abit better for a hotter 350 with 10-11 to 1 compression and a decent cam.

For that L98, i'd stick with a cam like the comp cams cc503 grind. AKA XE276hr and put it on a 112 lsa, your choice. Gives a powerband near 5800-6000 rpm peak which is great for a stock bottom end. Dont want to rev too high on that car.

Another great cam would be the XFI 218/224. Perfect for AFR heads. This may be better than the cc503 on that car. Its a mild cam that makes power... look to make 350whp atleast.

Get a 2800 rpm converter. That car will do low 12's easily. I have been 11.6-7's with around 375whp before i dyno tuned my motor and when i short shifted alittle. XFI 218/224 is capable of near 360whp with good compression so you could possibly touch 11's

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

Just the person I wanted to hear from.
This is going to end up being on the road 80% of the time in nice weather, alot of highway and around town.
Yes I would like to put this on my stock L98 short block.

I have more questions but I can't remeber them right now.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

That HSR with 195 heads will support whatever powerband you want and make just about as much power as you'll ever need. Certainly as much as the stock L98 bottom end can handle.


For what you intend to do, I'd stick with the 195 head with that HSR. Go with 30lb injectors unless you plan on doing something alot larger down the road. Even then some guys have used 30's on 400whp motors. Just bump pressure to flow more like a 36lb

Cam, there are alot of choices out there but like others have mentioned, anything around 220 degrees duration on the intake will work great. I happen to like the 218/224 XFI 268 cam for that since it has good duration, aggressive lobes, and loads of lift which will compliment the AFR 195 heads well. They flow to .600" so run as much lift as you can. AFR heads come from the factory with good enough springs to handle the 218 XFI cam. Anything over 6200 rpm i'd upgrade to AFR's 8019 springs for more pressure.

That setup will be easy to tune with MAF systems. It will idle extremely smooth and be very tame on the street. Should run on the stock converter but i'd suggest a larger stall speed, like a 2800. I loved that on my L98.

But that setup will also run very strong. I'd expect close to 350whp easily well tuned with good exhaust. 1989GTATransAm made like 360whp with a 355 AFR 195's with 10.5 to 1 comp.

GTA Matt is running 11.9's at 114 with the 276HR cam which is 224/230 AKA cc503 cam. This is in a stock bottom end L98 with miniram/AFR195's Its a nice grind too and works well. Another 350-370+ whp cam in the right motor. Very streetable too. Most popular cam in the LT1 cam only world next to the hotcam.

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

So just find some good 30ish lbs injectors? anyone like a certin brand or dislikes em? let me know?

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

So I purchased so far
throttle body 58mm
Holley Stealth ram
fuel rails
ford 30 lbs injectors

now for the rest......

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

So I've been reading alot,getting help from other and talking to lost of people about this swap that will be one.

Here is this list I have in my summit cart. Before I purchas them I would like everyones ( two cents ) on the parts. Should I Stick with these? Am I missing anything? Should I go with a bigger cam?


With this stall an my set up should I go with the extra option of the Multi-Disk (3 clutch)? here is the link of the stall and I would be going with a 2800 stall. https://www.700r4l60e.com/store/prod...4&cat=0&page=1

Then I made a mistake about the heads I wanted, I Thought they came with everything in them already.( springs pushrods ect.) and apperntly they don't. so what should I Get for them? http://www.adperformance.com/index.p...roducts_id=208



BSP-BLK90420 WATER NECK BLACK $79.75 $79.75
·This part is temporarily out of stock, but you can order it now. Tentative ship date: 4/24/2009, if your order is placed today.

CCA-08-466-8 Camshaft, Hydraulic Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 268/276, Lift .570/.565, Chevy, Small Block, Each $279.95 $279.95

CLO-9-3145 Timing Chain and Gear Set, Original True Roller, Double Roller, Iron/Steel Sprockets, Chevy, V6/V8, Set $85.95 $85.95

EAR-9894DBHERL Fitting, Power Fuel Injection Adapter, -6 AN Hose End to 14mm x 1.5 Female, Each $10.99 $10.99

EAR-9894DBJERL Fitting, Power Fuel Injection Adapter, -6 AN Hose End to 16mm x 1.5 Female, Each $10.39 $10.39

FEL-HS7733PT-9 Head Gasket, PermaTorqueMLS, Chevy 5.7L, Kit $114.95 $114.95

HLY-26-69 Fuel Pressure Gauge Fitting, Brass, 90 Degree Elbow, 1/8 in. NPT Male, 1/8 in. NPT Female, Each $2.95 $2.95

LOK-TCB-40TP3 Throttle Cable Bracket, Aluminum, Natural, TPI, Triple Stud, Each $34.95 $34.95

PRO-141-921 Valve Covers, Cast Aluminum, Black Powdercoat, Tall, Chevrolet, Bowtie Logo, Chevy, Small Block 1958-86, Pair $219.95 $219.95

PRO-67265 Water Pump, Mechanical, Long, High-Volume, Aluminum, Natural, Chevy, Small Block, Each $61.95 $61.95

RUS-610020 Fitting, Hose End, Full Flow, Straight, -6 AN Hose to Female -6 AN, Aluminum, Red/Blue, Each $5.50 $11.00

RUS-610220 Fitting, Hose End, Full Flow, 120 Degree, -6 AN Hose to Female -6 AN, Aluminum, Red/Blue, Each $21.95 $43.90

RUS-632060 Hose, ProFlex, Braided Stainless Steel, -6 AN, 6 ft. Length, Each $29.88 $29.88

SUM-800260 Gauge, Fuel Pressure, 0-60 psi, 1 1/2 in., Analog, Mechanical, Each $17.95 $17.95


Select All

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub Total: $1,004.51


so please help me out I Would like to order everything by monday.

mo

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

ADperformance should be selling the AFR heads complete for that 1439 price tag or whatever it is. They have springs and guide plates already. NO pushrods, that you have to measure and order for your application.

everything else looks ok. HSR can use stock TPI throttle bracket if you have one and dont want to buy that one you have listed

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

I called adperformance an they told me they would need to be parted up al-a-cart. style

With the throttle braket , figued why not the HSR is polished so why not go with a polished bracket too? hmm mabe it woul look better black.....

"everything eles looks ok" - just ok? hehe

EDIT~

So with all this stuff what #? should I be looking at and times.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Talk to them again, and get them to confirm a set of AFR 195's complete ready to bolt on. I got mine like 1460 shipped to my door so i dont see why they would be saying otherwise

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

will do. amyanswers to the other questions?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I'd say 350whp would be very nice out of that setup and should run low 12's with good launch. Should go 1.6 60's with 3000 stall or so and 3.42 gears or so. Not a bad setup and its very driveable too

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

What intake mani.?

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

holley steath ram is my intake of choice. and if i wanted abit more power then go with a bigger cam?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

yep, bigger cam will give you more power

chas0218

will the ram air work with vortec heads? if so i would look into vortec heads.

IROCThe5.7L

We can do our build together. LOL Where did you buy your 30lb injectors? I think that's what I'll go with also.

I went with the AFR 195's milled to 62cc for more compression. For a cam I went with the XR276HR. With 1.6 RR's it's [Intake .535 in / Exhaust .544 in] 1,900-5,600 RPM. I really don't want to string the engine past 6000 rpm. I also went with the Mr Gasket .028 head gasket.

Mine will be here Thursday. They better be ready to bolt on.

Here's my summit order that came Wednesday

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

The intake will not work with the vortec heads. But they have two styles of intakes

IROCTHE5.7L - why did you go with that cam,rocker arms and lifters? for rocker arms why not ones that self allign? are you changing your grears too? What stall are you going with ?

for the rest should I go with the multi disc 3 clutch option in my stall?
I woul like abit more hp then 350( yes I know 350 is alot ) I woul like closer to 375-400. can this be achived an still be decently driveable?
Thats all the questions I got right now.

thanks

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

AFR uses guideplates, so you cant use self aligning rockers. I forgot to mention that

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Oh and the multidisk clutch converter is good for full throttle lockups. THat will only happen if you intend to lock up the converter during a 1/4 mile run like at the top of second gear or something like that, or if you intend to lock it up on dyno runs.

I always ran faster with the converter unlocked on my 1/4 runs with my L98 but never tested it with the 383. On the dyno tho, i locked it up at start of third gear to show my full power


375+whp is achievable and driveable but harder to do on a stock shortlock since your down on compression and compression does help make the power. GTA Matt has that 276 cam on a 114 lsa i think and he's doing high 11's with his AFR/miniram setup. thats got to be 375whp or so

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

So no uses getting the multi diskclutch? either way ( if i dont it will save me 200 bucks)

didnt realize about the heads

thanks for the quick answers!

edit~
irocthe5.7L - if the heads come ready to bolt on , why did you buy rocker arms and lifters!

IROCThe5.7L

The cam will make good power, and give me a nice chop at idle. I don't want to string that stock bottom end over 6000 rpm. It shouldn't be terrible to tune. I needed rr's. 1.6's will give me more lift. And those specific ones should fit under the stock valve covers. As far as the lifters, the stock ones are 21 years old. I'm spending all this money anyway, so I decided to replace them. I'm most likely going to go with a 3200 stall. Gears are going to be tough with this 9 bolt. I'm probably going to throw a 10 bolt in with 3.73's until I can get a 12 bolt or ford 9". I'd like to get a dyno tune when I'm done. That would help me out the most as far as picking out everything else.


I'm almost positive the heads just come with the springs and guide plates on them. You need your own rocker arms, lifters, and pushrods. Where did you get your 30lb injectors?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

yeah the heads come with springs and guideplates. you need pushrods and rockers

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

got the injectors from smallblocking ( name of tgo memeber)

So which pushrods rockers and lifters ( hey if im replacing soo much eles why not these too)
For the heads did you go with the hydro rev kit?
I'm going to be running the tall valve covers so help me with the rest please so i can order all this and then install it ....this is the boring part/ confusing!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

ls7 GM lifters best bang for the buck.
Any pushrod but you'll have to measure the length you'll need.

Rockers i like the comp magnums for a budget setup. roller tips so they have less friction on the valves

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

ls7 lifters will fit? ...well im guessing they will cuz your recommending em.

rockers- which one do i need?

Also ill measure pushrod lenth and then order em

going to order all this tomorrrow!

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

Ordered what was on my list!

now just need to order rockers,pushrods,lifters,heads and the stall.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

order a 11 dollar pushrod length check tool if you get LS7 lifters. They do require slightly longer rods since the cup sits deeper. I used LS7 lifters on my 383 and they will be going back into my 400 motor. So measure them out then order the rods

Rockers dont matter, just pick a setup of non self aligning rockers if you get the AFR heads

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

what about lifters?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I said if you get LS7 lifters you'll want to measure them for pushrods. LS7 lifters which are now just LSx replacement lifters for all gm motors now apparently, are just fine.

Else use some OEM style replacements which are gonna be much more expensive than the GM LS7 lifters

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

why thank you kind sir......

IROCThe5.7L

Go with 1.6 rockers. That will get you more lift.

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

I find it funney how this thread is mostly 3 person thread. thanks for the help and keep it coming off to sleep for the night ill give more info and figure out parts tomorow .ie componets for the heads and heads so i can buy em already and have it done by mayish

hereinmissoula

would have chimed in earlier but i am not a f/i guy... carbs all the way, lol....

but to be serious your combo looks good... think the smaller cam (218/224?) would have better manners but might come up alittle short on the top end compared to xe276hr..i have driven cars (multiple) with this cam in a 350 and one in 383 and even the 383 pulled hard all the way to 6 grand (383 was carbed).. good cam for f/i when ground on the 112lsa..

i second the ls7 lifters, MEASURE FOR YOUR PUSHRODS.. do not order what some other person used/ tgo member said to get, etc... this is one part to not over look and try to hurry over...

those heads better come with springs and guideplates for the 14** they are... i would also get 1.6's... the heads will appreciate the extra lift (don't know if you guys have p/v clearence problems on stock short blocks) do it if you can...

great combo, hope you post a vid after you get it running.. i'm gonna subscribe to this.. curious as to what your gonna get out of stock short block..

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

Thanks for the advise!

Yes I'm going to meussure for pushrod lenth. and Not take some advise from others.

Of corse I'm going to post vidoe of it running after , I'm a loser all I do when im home is be on TGO playing vidoe games and work and ride my yz250.... o and chill with my gf i dont tell her how much im spending on my car....anyways back to the topic...

The parts should be here tomorow wich is insane cuz I placed the order yesterday, and it should be here on the 16th!

time to call up some more vendors.

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

nice, those valve covers are sweet

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

Thanks! I was thinking of painting the fuel rail or something eles black to make it loook nicer. or should i just go with the polishe iroc badge that is polished an iroc in black?http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/85...iewstyles.aspx

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

so...heres an update most of the parts are in.

rocker arms, poly motor mounts , and spark plug wire protechtors came today.

afr heads and spohn k-member should be coming on this week.

now just trying to decide what coating I shoul go with for hooker long tubes from jet hot.

MODs~ can you change the title of this thread to H/C/I swap,step II . In stead of " need some help planning h/c/i swap" thanks .

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

IROCThe5.7L

Looks great! Did you start yet? You better get going, I'm ahead of you! Heads, cam, double roller, and headers are installed. Going to measure for pushrod length this weekend. What cam did you go with??