To everyone who has helped me with my engine questions, and dealt with my lack of knowledge, thanks.
I finally found a good deal on a local engine! I got it for $100 and its has the engine casting code: 14093638. Which means its a 87-95 motor block, not what I hoped for, but the engine has already been dipped, and machined. Its a clean block, thats been bored .040 over.

What I currently run in my T/A is a 305 LG4..... I don't need any more reason than that for a swap. Its an original engine, and obviously, is Pre-87.

Which is where my questions lie...

I Plan on RE-using ANYTHING I can, Timing chain cover, bolts, fuel pump, full V-Belt Set-up, Starter, some internals, like oil pump rod, etc...

What CAN and CAN'T Be used on a pre-87 SBC that wold fit a Post-86 SBC?

Ive read the oil pan wont work... Is this true?

Im thinking of using a Summit, Or JEGS Kit, on a rebuild. Got any links on a good rebuild kit? Should I use Dished, or Flat top Pistons, Are Summit-Brand Pistons any good? Ive seen a couple good looking rebuild sets in the summit catalog, from about $270 - $330. Are Summit Cams any good?

Sorry for bombarding this post with questions, but am trying to get this built up and going. I thank everyone for any and all help you have been, and will be. Thanks!

 

Im looking to drive this every day, to school, and work and back, etc. I dont want a ROUGH idle, or something that will have to be filled up with gas 5 times a week.

In order to better understand what Im up against, Ill post some Links to parts, Ive considered using.

Im not above using Summit Brand, or Jegs Brand parts, as long as they can last, and handle some abuse.

Hows this cam?
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...2&autoview=sku

This kit seems pretty nice, and the price is real good, what do you think?
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku

What makes this kit(bottom) better than that kit(top)?
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku

I know I cant yet pick a kit until I have my crank shaft. I have a stock crank, that has seen better days, it will need a total reconditioning, and probably turned, any idea on $$ of that? Should I just buy a new Eagle Crank for $190?

I have GM PM Rods, that need reconditioning, Price Quote?

I already got H/V Oil Pump, Timing chain set (Double Roller), and Freeze Plugs. Im looking for the best kit I can get on a small budget.

Thanks so much!

 

With that goal, by the time you're done "rebuilding" a $100 engine, it will probably be cheaper to go to your local Napa, Autozone, GM dealer etc and just buy a factory replacement engine.

 

There seems to be a lot of info missing on this, but I'll give some insite on what I read.

You can't use your oil pan because of the different crankshafts. 2 piece rear main on 86 and older. 1 piece rear main on 87 and up. The rebuild kits you linked are for older blocks than your87-95.
Your intake won't work without bolt hole maching.
I wouldn't use 305 heads on a 350. (too small valves)
And if you do rebuild use flat tops with larger chamber heads. No point in dished without boost.
On the plus side your carb, v belts and possibly your starter will work fine. The carb will take some tuning though. also the cam you picked is an alright pick.

I'm inclined to agree with Stephen 87 iroc, go with a long block and have it said and done. Otherwise your in for a long uphill battle. 809-10067353 is the jegs #for a good 350 long block. You won't need an intake, and if you want more power then mill the heads a bit for more compression and change the cam to your choice.
If your concerned about the cost, trust me the "cheap way" will get expensive when needing different parts and a lot of extra parts you forget to include. I hope this helps. Take it from somebody that has done it the "cheap way". Put it this way my 357 Small block has the same part # as your .040 over 350!

 

reusing an oil pump, or bearings is a BAD idea, i dont even do that on my derby engines... engines that i plan on having to throw away at some point.

if you're replacing pistons, you're going to have to have the block bored, or at least honed, and replace the rings. dont, and you'll undoubtedly have problems with blowby and improper ring gaps.

as for reusing hardware, if you're talking intake bolts, and bolts for the tins, no problem. when it comes to rod bolts, main bolts, cam bolts, and flywheel/flexplate bolts, its really a gamble using old fasteners. replacing the rod and main bolts will require more machine work to ensure that the bores are properly sized and shaped.

take your time, spend your money wisely, and you'll have an engine that will make good power, and last a long time. you cant expect to build a reliable engine out of junk.

 

The 638 is a roller lifter block. Why not use a roller cam? Take-out ZZ4 and LT1 cams are plentiful and relatively inexpensive, mine was an eBay take-out for $95. If you got the lifters and all with the block, this is a natural. If you didn't get the lifters etc., again they're available on eBay.

How much of the engine did you get? 305 heads on a 350 are fine if you have 1.94" intake valves installed and a little port clean-up done on them. New valve springs, of course.

If you use the 305 heads, you're going to need dished pistons to keep compression down.

By the way, that linked Jegs engine is lame. Lame, lame, lame. No more power than your 305.

 

I've got a good new ZZ4 cam I'll sell ya for $50. And I'll include a good set of roller lifters to match.

 

That sounds good, send me some pics please, Bradley23150@yahoo.com
----------
I got Just a block, an old crank, new cam bearings already installed, and thats about it, also Main caps, numbered.

I wasnt planning on using 305 heads, but if I can, I dont see why not?
I Can buy Dished, if i use 305 heads?

Aliceempire:

I know I can use the same starter and accessories. I want planning on using a stock intake or carb. I have a Torker I Intake and 600 cfm carb. I Think you can elongate the bolt holes on the intake in order to make it work on a post-86 block? And I dont see how there can be any problems using that kit on a Post-86 Block?

 

I Dont plan on re-using the oil pump, in fact, I have a brand new one. I meant i was re-using all the Exterior bolts of the engine, as you said. Im not trying to make something out of nothing, im willing to buy new parts, IE: My links to the kits, Thanks

 

Doesn't sound like the block has the cam retainer or lifter anti-rotation dog-bones or spider.

Your '84 flexplate won't fit a 638's crank.

If you use your 305 heads, you won't have any problems mounting the intake. But, I wouldn't plan on using that Torker 1 - no guts at all below 2500 RPMs. A Performer RPM would be a better match for a ZZ4 cam.

 

What do you mean about the Cam? You said to use a roller cam, because of the engines year. Sorry, but im new to this, just trying to get what I need to buy straightened out.

About the heads- About the most crucial thing, because I am clueless. Can you give me any ideas on what exactly needs to be done to my heads, to make them work for this block? Whats the price tag on this?

I said Torker because my dad has one he was going to give it to me, I can always modify the motor further when I get more $$. Just trying to get it running.

Will those kits that I posted in the first post work with this block? Any Pros and Cons?

Ignition is my other concern, also clueless there, Will a Mallory Unilite Distributor work well? I want to eliminate as much computer controlled items as I can, Whats the proper procedure for running this type of external coil dizy?

Thanks!!

Would it help if I snapped a few pics?

 

I got a guy that wants to sell me a ''spider galley'' is this what i need to run that cam and lifters?

 

What really matters is if the block has the 3 bosses above the center 3 cam bearings to accept the spider. I was going to include the spider and the dogbones, I assumed you'd assume that by me adding lifters. I don't have any way to post pics, but you don't need them, the cam is brand new, with NO damage. The lifters are seconds, which means cosmetic blemish, but functionally fine.
So, if your block has the 3 bosses cast in, you should go hydraulic roller. There are so many advantages. I'll never go non-roller again. I'm selling this cam because I decided on the HOT "LT4" cam, and COMP Pro-Magnum lifters.

 

What needs to be done is new valve springs and possibly cut the top of the guides to get adequate valve travel and spring pressure for the ZZ4 cam. The rest is nice-to-have, but not "necessary".

The worst money spent is using what you have just because you have it. Your stock intake would be better than that Torker.

Not the right type for the crank seal and oil pan gasket, but otherwise the rest of the stuff will "work".

I'd highly recommend sticking with the stock computer carb. Much, much better for the street than non-computer.


Might help to see what all you have exactly. Crank, lifter valley, all pieces available, etc.

 

I disagree. Use the Torker rather than the LG4 intake, and get you a Holley Street Avenger 670 or a Road Demon. Either way, neither intake is as good as a new Performer EPS.

 

If you want to drop the computer use a large cap vacuum advance HEI. Its one of the cheapest and best out there.

 

I don't know where you're coming from there. I wouldn't spend money on either one of those carbs if I already had a CC q-jet. I agree a new Performer EPS would be better than either the stock intake or the Torker, but since the Torker was going to be used rather than spend money, it doesn't make any sense to me to spend money on a carb and ignition that is no better and arguably a downgrade from the stock CC q-jet so you can use a mismatched manifold.

All of the LG4 induction and ignition will work just fine on a mild 350 (note I'm using it on practically an identical build). Spending money on a vacuum secondary aftermarket squarebore carb and open loop ignition when you're thinking of using a mismatched manifold to save money is just insane. Spend a little money on a slightly better intake and run what's the best choice for street performance in a carb and ignition that you already have!

 

Hmm, So it would be better to stick with the stock manifold, and Rochester? The Torker and 600cfm Edelbrock would be worse than that? My Rochester was Rebuilt before I bought the car, and hasnt given me any problems, and my edelbrock carbs' condition is unknown. But, what would be the best choice for a DD, with a little Power? Should I buy a Performer Intake? What carb would work well with that?

My block DOES have the 3 Mounting points in the middle of the block for the ''spider galley''.

The crank I have, is what I assume to be from the block I have, the guy threw it in, looks to have been sitting outside for a while, covered with surface rust, and the oiling holes has little dirt cakes stuck in them, probably from insect nests, all in all, not bad, but Definately needs machine work.

So, If I keep the Qjet, I have to keep the stock distributor?

Ill probably end up buying that kit Thursday, and also that cam off of Atilla, if they will ''co-exist'' and work well together. Then buy different oil pan gasket, and RMS.

On a side note-
Can I just get an oil pan and flywheel from a 87up camaro or firebird from the junkyard?

I thank everyone for their help and support, I COULD NOT build this motor without helpful people.

Also--
If anyone has any parts that I need at a reasonable Price, Please PM me.

 

my experiences with Edelbrock carbs are that they're great carbs... if you want your grandma to rebuild them and tune them for you. as far as milage, they leave alot on the table, upper end performance as well. a good carb to cut your teeth in carb tuning on, but i wouldnt even think of spending money on one. a Quadrajet is a FAR better carb all around, though they're a little trickier to tune. once they're tuned, they're set, you can forget about it, unlike a Holley. their small primaries will give you good drivability and milage, and the large secondaries will give you good top end performance.

as for an intake, i would recomend a good dual plane intake. your Torker is a single plane, which will shine in the higher RPMs, but leave alot of low end on the table. a Performer RPM, or perhaps even a RPM Air Gap (in warmer climates) would be good. you can find them all over Ebay and Craigslist used for reasonable prices.

 

If you keep your original q-jet, assuming it's a computer controlled type, you get to keep your original distributor. Can't beat that!

The CC q-jet doesn't need "tuning" other than the secondary rods & hanger - maybe. Adjusting, yes. Tuning, no.

For the record, I rarely touch my Holley. Usually only when I've done something else that affects it, not because it needs tuning.

 

Alright, so Im going to keep my Rochester and Stock distributor(which is apparently a GOOD thing). Is my Distributor a ''HEI''? Can I buy a better coil for it, to make it ''semi-high performance''?

Heres my plan, thanks to you guys, now:
- Re-use Rochester
- Re-use Distributor
- Get Performer Manifold
- ZZ4 Cam, Roller Lifters, Spider, and dog bones (Still waiting to hear back from Atilla)
- Buy that Kit from Summit, Need to decide which one
- Recondition my crank
- Get my PM rods reconditioned
- Match bearings to crank
- Get some Heads rebuilt (got a few sets)
- Match Pushrods after measuring

Another question-
Can I buy an oil pan and flywheel off of a 3rd gen at the JY? As long as its Post-86?

What does a Harmonic Balancer do, exactly? Does it need to be matched to the flywheel, or something?

Anything wrong with my list of TO-DO's?

Thanks again guys, I really need the help.

Just calculated some things in that kit. Considering I already have Freeze plugs, Timing Chain kit, and a Hi-Vol Oil pump, I can save a few Bucks.
The 2nd kit costs $270 If I add up all the parts individually it costs about $200.

 

Im very interested, I can get you the $ Thursday. You sure you cant get any pics? I suppose its self-explanitory on what it is. My zip is 33635, please get me a full price. Thanks

 

Up...

 

Yes. I'm using the Accel Supercoil, MSD make a good stock-looking one as well. The module inside the distributor can also be improved, you'll need a "7-pin" type.

Yes. Doesn't even have to be a 3rd gen.

It is mounted on the front of the crank. It is more properly called a harmonic damper. It dampens out the pulses from the cylinders firing and keeps the crank from breaking. If you ever watch PINKS, there was an episode where a 'Stang broke the damper during the burn-out, they tried to run it anyway, broke the engine mid track.

 

Awesome, You've been such a huge help with me on this, and I really appreciate it.

So I can Pull the Damper off of the same car I pull the pan and flywheel off of? I have a Puller for it, so no worries there. I really dont want to break my newly rebuilt motor.. :P

Thats about most of the questions I have as of this moment, but Stay tuned.. Heh..

Thanks again.

 

Just Ordered From Summit:
1) .040 Pistons, Flat tops, Plan on using them with older 350 Heads (My dad said they were ''195's?'' Idk though.
2) .040 Rings To Match
3) Complete Gasket Kit (With correct RMS and OP gaskets. )
4) RTV Silicone
and Last but not least Pontiac Blue enine Paint.

Going to try to Get a M.O. Out tomorrow to Atilla. Giving me a good deal on:
-Spider Galley
-Dog Bones
-New ZZ4 Cam
-New Roller Lifters
-Pushrods
-Fuel Pump Push Rod

Parts I Have:
-Rods
-Carb
-Distributor
-Valve Covers
-84 305 parts
-Carb studs

Are there any parts That I am missing in order to build this engine? Any words of advice?

Still Need some information about the Damper and flywheel.

What is the proper way to determine what damper I would need?
Can I buy just any old Damper from the JY?
Does it have to be matched to the Flywheel?
Are All SBC Dampers the same?
Should I just buy a new one? (So damned expensive though)

Thanks sooo Much!

 

The most important thing about the damper is getting one that matches your timing cover tab. You can use the parts off of your 305. But, dampers aren't that expensive - I have a Pioneer damper on the Camaro. Chevy used two different timing tab locations, 12 o'clock (many 3rd gens), and ~2 o'clock. Most replacement "universal" dampers are the latter type. You can tell which is which by comparing the crankshaft keyway to the timing mark - if they're close to lined up, that's the ~2 o'clock type. If the mark is at 12 o'clock and the keyway at ~2 o'clock, that's the 12 o'clock type.

SBC dampers also came in different diameters and thicknesses, but don't worry so much about that.

You don't need to "match" the damper and flexplate, they just need to be the right types. If you get a 350 damper and 350 one-piece rear main seal 153-tooth flexplate, you'll be fine.

 

Summit is on the ball, ordered parts last night, theyre already shipped out, thats awesome news.

But, back to the damper, which I didnt think would make me so confused. You explained it all pretty well, which I appreciate, but has me mildly confused.

1) I can't use the damper off of my 305?
2) The Damper HAS to be from a 350?
3) So theres 2 types, what If i get the wrong one?
4) So if the timing mark and the Keyway are real close together, Thats the one I DONT want?
5) Theres no difference between a Pre-87 and Post-86 Damper?


Thanks Sooo Much!!

 

Up.

 

generally if i order before 3:00, i have my parts the next day.
1. yes you can, but it is a critical engine part. if you're going to the trouble of building an engine why skimp and run the possibility if doing it all over again?
2. no, any SBC damper will "work" as long as its not a 400 damper. they are counterweighted, all other SBCs are zero balanced.
3.theres more than 2 types, 12:00 and 2:00, weighted and zero balanced, thicknesses can sometimes vary, along with diameter.
4. pretty sure thats the one you DO want, but look at yours to be sure.
5. maybe, maybe not. see above. functionally, no.

 

oh, okay thanks for response.

I cant look at my damper, because I did not get one with the block, which is post 86.

Basically: I can get one from a JY 350?

Got a link to a cheap new one?

Thanks!

 

Got my parts in the mail just now, was looking through them, and noticed something...

The pistons I ordered are Speed Pro .040 .. I dont know the exact Part# off hand, but if I need it, ill post it up. I noticed they dont have any pins to hold the ''cylindrical shaft'' inside the piston? On the box, was a sticker that said: ''Pin Fitted''.... Whats that mean, exactly? I thought there had to be something on either side of that shaft, to prevent it from jamming into the side of your cylinder walls?

I bought an 87 up complete gasket kit as well, came with everything RMS, Oil pan gasket, head gaskets, etc. etc. Also came with somethings for the valves, that I have no clue what theyre for, but Ill figure that out.

Also, anyone know where to get a cheap cylinder hone?

Thanks!

 

Bull. I haven't received any money order yet. Mail is always slow in Dec. anyway.

 

Thanks for the PM's and response, All I wanted was Reassurance. Sorry if I said anything to offend.

Thanks.

 

they're either fully floating and in that case you'll need some spiral locks (2 on each side of the piston) to keep the "piston pin" inside of the piston. Or they're press in and you'll have to go to your local machine shop.

 

Ohh, Okay, I believe that I got these:
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku

Thx.

 

I guess you were thinking you were gonna warn everyone about a scammer (me), but what you have really done is slander me for your own wrong idea of when I "should" have received your money order, assuming you sent one.
In other words, you tried to punish me for your mistake.
You can take your money order stub into your local post office and they can confirm I have not cashed it nor deposited it.
I am extremely upset about this, you costing me use of this forum, so I will be returning any money order I receive, rather than sending the new ZZ4 cam, new hydraulic roller lifters, pushrods, spider, dogbones and fuel pump pushrod.

 

I was NOT trying to warn anyone. Simply taking inventory of what I have and what I need.

I never said that you ''should'' have recieved anything yet, just wanted to know that you acknowledged my sending of it, and my Pm to you.

I have removed that part out of my previous post to hopefully prevent any future problems. I did NOT try to accuse you of anything that would harm your reputation. I hope that what I said won't have any negative effect on your usage of this forum. I still would, however like to do business with you.

I don't know how to fully make this right, but I fully apologize about that, and won't jump to any pre-mature conclusions.

I hope we can still make this work. Your obviously more of a reputable member of this forum, and will be believed more than I will be. Once, again, my sincerist apologies.

Please PM me if you have any concerns

Thanks.

 

Well, Recieved my MO in the mail today. Its safe to assume, Im not recieving my cam and stuff.

Back at square one with that. $2 Ill never get back.... =/

Anyone have any of the items needed for a roller cam, Please PM me, thx.

 

Forget about the internals ideea. Everything on the insede id go new.

 

Huh?
I bought New:
Oil Pump
Pistons
Rings
etc...

gunna get rods and crank reconditioned, basically brand new after that..