VIDEO of current Hi-Torque Mini Starter problems - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soUQ3Ai1Po4

I am currently on my 6th starter. I have gone thru 6 starters in 2 years. The car has headers and every mechanic I've gone to and have looked at the car has blamed the HEADERS for having too much heat and burning out the solenoid on the starter. After Lordco (For those in the USA, Lordco is similar to AutoZone) finally stopped offering replacements on the starters after one shop made the dumb move and TOLD lordco I was coming down in behalf of their shop to pick up a starter to replace the starter that was burned out by my headers.. Unfortunately they now have me on record and can't return any starters to them.

As I asked around (and even on here) was told it WAS my heaters and to go to a Hi-torque MINI starter and are literally guaranteed to last the life of the car as the headers won't effect it. I took it to another place (who has rave positive reviews) and they said they too would warranty the starter for years because the starter can't be effected by the headers.. So I put up of the $300+ for the MINI starter. They even welded a heat shield to provider further shielding from the heat of the starter solenoid.

No problems until 2 months later.. The car started to do the same.. Starter locking.

I went to my work and put the car on the hoist. Took out my video camera and conveniently remote started the car.. The 3rd start and it LOCKED. On video I can clearly see (with the flywheel cover removed) that the starter gear is SMASHING against the flywheel teeth.

Now I called the shop that installed the MINI and they said that if it were the shims, it would have been noticeable right away, and that the heaters would not have any effect on it so It has to be the flywheel however they cannot deal with the flywheel as they don't have a hoist (They are a starter/battery install place only and jack cars up with manual jack and crawl under) But the shop itself has a A++ Better Business Bureau and has been in the business for a LONG time.

I took it to another shop to have it looked at and was able to get starter to lock up against the flywheel teeth again so they can see for themselves. They claim it's the headers doing it and it's NORMAL to have to replace the starters in 2-3 months with headers. They are trying to convince me to pay another $300 for another MINI starter plus install because it is very unlikely the original shop will warranty it since they claim it's the headers at fault and not the starter.

Now I'm being told it could be the flywheel by some mechanics, but the shop who has the car now says they want to experiment with the starter because replacement of the flywheel would be like $600cdn (Flywheel and removal of tranny).

I CANNOT GET A STRAIGHT ANSWER FROM ANYONE!!!! One group of mechanics and shops say it's the starter, then another says it's the HEADERS and this is normal to replace 2-3 months each time, other say it's the flywheel even tho the shop says the teeth look fine.. And now being told the start pin in not coming out all the way but it is CLEAR it IS coming out because it's hitting the flywheel. You can see this in the video.

FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL.. HELP me get this fixed!! WHAT is at fault?? HOW do I stop this was dying all the time??? I mean COME ON.. 6 starters in 2 YEARS is just a tad over excessive and RIDICULOUS don't you think??

 

have you heard a weird singing noise when starting the car? When the teeth don't engage properly (which is a shim issue) they sing/ring on the flywheel. Oh, they will still start.. for a while.

But the gear on the throwout is harder than the teeth on the flywheel. So, it just goes on it's merry way chewing up the flywheel till A) it won't egage anymore, or B) you get what I had, which is it had basically cut threads into the individual teeth, which would keep the bendix thrown out, and engaged, as it ground away, slowly, to the point where I melted a battery lead because NOTHING would stop it, even pulling out the key.

It's not normal to have to replace a starter every 2-3 months unless you are a top fuel rail running sixes.

Personally, I'd pull the starter, and LOOK at the teeth on the flywheel, an see what they look like. Nice and even, no worries.. sloped, arced over like waves, or really shiny grooves on the "drive side" of the gear peaks, and I'd think the starter wasn't shimmed right when installed.

 

i noticed when it DID engage the teeth on the flywheel that the starter gear would giggle back and forth quite a lot as it would turn the flywheel but not enough to actually come out meshing with the gear.. Basically still engaded but sliding back and forth in the gear.

 

I went through 7 starters in 2 days. As soon as the engine hit the nose cone would break off. Then I went with a mini and it lasted like 6 months then I got looking at my flexplate (automatic flywheel) I had the 153 tooth flywheel and went to the 168 and took care of all my problems. On an engine with a little more cranking compression, flattops, cams, heads, whatever, will cause the smaller flywheel to hit the bendix on the starter too hard.

 

deff. seem like alot of starters to go thru. headers do cause heat soak in starters but to kill that many in 2years seems crazy.

i always run a ford starter solenoid up on the frame rail. Maybe get that mini starter under warranty and run a ford remote solenoid also.

 

I would say you have flywheel problems, replace it, get another minstarter under warranty. I have run both 168/153 tooth flywheels w/ the same ministarter and headers for over 3 yrs and have had no problems. This is on an engine w 11:1 compression.....

 

In the business of building starters and alternators, I would say that there are multiple issues. First the starters should last MANY years, provided that it is installed properly. In the video I see the wrong bolts used. The late GM starter "MINI" has special bolts that have a 3/4 Knurl that is used to index the starter in the proper position. If they are not used the starter can shift and cause a mis alignment issue. Second check the voltage down at the s-terminal of the solenoid. If this voltage is low, then the solenoid will engage slow or not make the contact at all(click no crank). This can be cured by installing a starter relay in line to the s-terminal. Late model starters pull more amps to engage the solenoid. This WILL be affected by headers but not to the point of not starting the car. Lastly make sure that the starter has a good quality solenoid on it. Not a china knock off, they have less turns in the coils and will not have the "umph" to start the car.

 

Sound like

A) wrong teefs to teefs on the gearing
B) ring gear on the flywheel is already shot.

either way.. that many starters in that period of time MAKES NO SENSE. Have you replaced _any_ of them yourself? Or are you letting someone soak you for money every time they do this job for you?

 

Wow, good points!

 

Does it do it intermittently or all the time? If it only does it sometimes is it random or after driving the car? If the problem only happens somtimes and it seems to be random then I would say there is a voltage problem somehere in the circuit from the battery to the solenoid. I had a very similar issue where the solenoid pushed the gear out into the flywheel but there was not enough power to turn the gear so it did exactly what yours is doing. With me it was a random thing and it turned out to be grounding wire from my nss to the solenoid.

 

So according to the mechanics at the new shop, they are indicating to me the headers were apparently installed wrong and are installed way too close to the headers. Here are pictures of my exhaust, what is wrong? Are they saying the truth? How should it have been done?

The Cats will be reinstalled for Emissions testing and then the rest without the cats.

http://www.camarosource.ca/temp/

 

try a 88-91 corvette gear reduction mini starter. My 90 vette can be idled for hour to two hours with the a/c on blizzard on a 90+ degree day and it cranks right over no problem. I guess it's a direct bolt on with a minor wiring change. Kinda doubt you temps can exceed a corvette's. Probably have more clearance from the exhaust too.

 

That looks almost identical to the Summit (SRE) ProTorque Mini Starter I have the garage. It'll work but has to be clocked so it's going towards the oil pan like pictured if you plan on going to Super Comp Long Tubes. I would assume it would work fine in the normal position with your shorties though.

 

It is a nippondenso .... the bay has a ton of them for sale for around 60.00 I got that one for 25.00 from a friend because I thought mine was bad but turned out to be loose wires on the starter.

 

FIXED!! (I think)

Ok. We MAY have the fix to all the YEARS of starter issues..

I took the car back to the original shop who I bought that Mini-starter from (20+ years in business) and the original owner was there. He's claims he's an experts with not other the starters but the electrical techniques to fixing problems like mine. He tried starting it several times and then finally it locked. He explained this is a very common problem he deals with and explained that this can occur when the ignition has likely worn down that results in a lower than required current to get to the solenoid. While it's enough to push the solenoid out, it needs the extra full current to PUSH it into the mesh of the flexplate gear otherwise once it hits the gear, it doesn't have any excess push to push it thru..

He explained that if it were a shimming issue that we would hear grinding and that the headers had nothing to do with any of the starter issues.

He said he would add an extra relay solenoid on the firewall hooked to the ignition. The ignition would power the secondary relay, and in turn supply the extra power to power the starter solenoid fully. So far no problems and now It can crank over with like a quick flick of the ignition! WOW!

Only time will tell if this is the fix I have waited for, for YEARS! 6 starters :-(

 

good stuff, having starter issues myself.

 

This is what they hooked up.

 

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2056506

all the same. I usuallt get the ones that look like this