i have a gen 1 sb 383 with a set of 882 heads on it, is there any hope of making power with these heads or should i go with a different set of heads? i found a decent deal on some iron eagles with 2.02s and double valve springs but i honestly dont know much so ill just ask you guys, which route would you go

 

Definitely the Iron Eagles!
If you can afford them, they are worth it.
They'll make more power with less cam. That makes for a much more fun time behind the wheel. You can have a medium cam for good driveability, and still run harder than a big cam with lousy 882 heads.
However, the Iron Eagles are offered with a choice of intake port sizes. Which to choose depends on you. If this is just a mild cam, daily driver, then a 180 cc will do well.
If you want serious performance, then go 200 cc.
If this is for racing, and maybe summer weekends, then 215 cc.
Those 882s are supposed to be 76 cc chambers. They may have been milled to around 71 cc.
So if you go for 180s, then consider the 72 cc. But if you order 215s, then consider the 64 cc.

 

is there any downsides to getting heads with the 215 intake? i daily drive it but im not so worry about driveablity as long as it wont crack or anything like that

 

882 heads are GARBAGE, no matter what flow #s people claim for them or what work has been done to them. I would guess that more money has been wasted polishing those particular turds over the years, than ANY OTHER casting; and no matter what, they always seem to produce nothing but disappointment. Throw them in the trash ASAP.

IEs pretty much ALL come with 2.02" intake valves; that's standard, unless you order them with 2.05" ones. Nothing special there.

Find out which intake port size they are. 180 is not really large enough for most 383s, and 215 is WAY huge unless it's race only. 200 is most likely going to be the best size.

Then find out which chamber size they are. All of the port sizes they offer AFAIK are available in both chamber sizes. Some combinations of ports and chambers will be grossly inappropriate for whatever the rest of your motor is; some more suitable; only one will probably be optimum. If these heads you found aren't that specific combo, they won't do you any real good.

Best selection of chamber size has no connection whatsoever in any way to intake port size. Chamber size needs to match the pistons you have, to put the compression ratio into the right range for the rest of your combo and intended purpose.

So: first question should be, what is this engine and car used for. Next, what is the short block; part #s only please, and a description of the machine work, specifically, how much the deck was cut. Then, what is the rest of the combo; cam, exhaust, intake, gears, converter, car weight.

 

Vizard says 882s make 20-40 lbs/ft less torque than other heads. So far I have never seen any of his observations proven wrong. Hope this helps.

 

200's in iron eagle platinum heads would do well on a 383, but those heads arent all that much cheaper than a set of aluminums Less weight, and abit better ports for more power Iron eagles are only "ok" as cast and really open up with a good port job.

 

Sofa's not as sharp as he thinks. Maybe needs another cup of coffee.
See, if it's gonna be a mild daily driver, then that means pump gas and a moderate cam. 180 is a good match for that, and so is the modest compression you get with 72 cc chambers.
If you're going to get serious with it, then 215 cc heads, a higher rpm range, high octane fuel, a wilder cam, and higher compression all work well together. To get the compression to support the cam and the huge ports, the 64 cc makes sense.
180s are not small for a mild 383. About like ported 'vette aluminum heads on a 350. 200s will give up a bit of low-end, and 215s will give up a bit more.
You don't want to give up more low end than you gain back at higher revs, especially if you never turn those higher revs.
For the 215s to equal the 180s may require 2500 or 3000 rpm. And the 215 advantage may not be significant until 5000 or 5500 rpm.
So if you're running TPI, or an intake that has EGR, and a stock torque converter with a 2.73:1 axle, then you would be happier with 180s.
The whole combination needs to work together. It all has to match.
383s are built for torque. And smaller ports give better charge velocity. You get that instant torque feel. If you get the 215 heads, you'd be better off with a 377 under them. That's a 400 block with a 350 crank.

 

I think I'm gonna get some 180s with 72cc chambers due to wanting to superchatge the setup in the near future

 

Gah, i'd follow sofa's advice above all else. Don't use 180cc chambers, ESPECIALLY if you ever plan on supercharging it in the future. 180cc ports will make a truck engine out of it. Don't use 72cc heads "because you might supercharge it". Plan the head chamber size based on actual calculations using the part numbers and machine work of what you have now. Otherwise you're just guessing, and it'll run as such (poorly).

A "400 block with a 350 crank" is a good indication of someone who's advice you may not want to follow. Not meant to be an insult Ron, but just that this is an old wives tale, and the information shouldn't be passed along anymore

 

Ok thanks everybody, I'm new to this whole thing so thanks for all the help

 

Sonix is getting lost in the hype. There are several Vortec-headed 383s getting press, that are doing 450 HP at 5600 RPM, with 170 cc heads. That's no low-rpm truck motor.
Look at it this way: AFR 180 heads do out-flow World Sportsman 2 heads, which are 200 cc. So will the AFR heads have less top end power, just because they're only 180 cc? No.
Dart themselves did a build a year or 2 ago, with 180 heads on a 400. 9.5:1, Demon 650 carb. 526 HP at 5800 rpm. Still making 497 HP at 6500 rpm. So, were the 180 heads a problem? Obviously not.
Ideally, you should pull your 882s and see what pistons you have before deciding what way to go.
But the 377 is not a myth. The bigger bore unshrouds the valves, improving flow, much needed at higher rpm. The shorter stroke reduces the strain on the rod bolts at higher rpm. Just because a 383 can be spun to 7000 RPM doesn't mean a 377 won't give better HP up there, all else being equal.
And if you are going to supercharge, then that's another good reason to go with the 180s instead of 200s.

 

Ok so pull the heads, look at what pistons I got, then go from there?


All u know for sure is there flat tops... which makes them what -6ccs?

 

That's about right, but hopefully they'll be stamped with some letters and numbers, by their manufacturer. If so, those might help us determine if they are 2618 forged, or 4032 forged, or hypereutectic, or cast. BTW, I just listed those from strongest to weakest.
If you have cast pistons, you may not want high rpm or big boost. Maybe 6 psi and 6000 rpm at most. If they're forged, you may want to check the ring gaps. Boost requires larger gaps for the top rings, especially with hypereutectics.

 

Ok ok. I'm going to have towait probably 2 weeks before I can do this thought. Thanks for all the help.

If there hyperteutic what's the rpm boost max I should be running on those?

 

What's the best headgasket to use? Not neccesarilly thickness but brand

 

RIght: Look at them. They might have a part # stamped on them. I wouldn't get all wrapped up in all of that fancy alloy business; a part # is entirely sufficient.

What makes them "-6cc" is the valve reliefs. That's "nominal", and not an absolute "±.01cc" kind of thing; on cast ones especially including hypereutectics, there's somewhere around 2cc of potential variation in it. Most likely that's what you'll find, or if forged they'll probably be truck replacement TRW / SpeedPro, not some kind of racing parts.

Another important feature to determine, is the deck clearance: which is, how far "down in the hole" they are at TDC. Typical stock pistons leave .025" of bore, + .010" - .000" more or less, with WILD variations possible from side to side and/or front to rear on each side. About .005" of variation is "usual", and .010" is not uncommon. Some of that is due to block machining, and some to crank work; "rebuilt" motors are usually ALOT worse, because alot of machine shops will grind cranks centered on the wear instead of "index grinding" where all 4 journals are EXACTLY 90° apart and have the same stroke and the keyway is EXACTLY in line with the #1/#2 throw like it's supposed to be. Again, expect a couple of degrees and a good .005" of variation in the stroke, in a typical "rebuilt" motor.

Needless to say, given these HUGE variations and uncertainties, whenever I see stuff like "my CR is 9.732:1. No machine work on the deck" I automatically know I'm seeing somebody who doesn't know what they're doing, is running off at the mouth, and hasn't measured a damn thing.

Last 377 I built, I tried like hell to talk the guy out of it, but he insisted. I used the Comp "spacer bearings" in it if memory serves. EXACTLY what I kept telling him would happen (dirt-track late-model) happened: the guys with 400s would DRILL him out of EVERY corner, EVERY one of them, EVERY time. He finally saw the light after finishing last on the lead lap a couple of races, and realized that what I had been telling him about spending MORE to get LESS was true; that he had basically used his own money as the weapon to shoot himself in the shorts with. NO doubt you know people with 350s; no doubt you've come across some that were .030" over, and some that were .060" over; how much difference between them was there, attributable to the overbore? Exactly: NONE. So how much different would it be if it was .125" over? That's what a 377 is. So it always amuses me to see people WHO HAVE NEVER BUILT ONE and who don't have 2 neurons they can rub together and get at least one to fire, coming up with some stupid crap about how great that combo is; I would classify that as the mark of inexperience and lack of logic, right there. The whole "unshrouding" thing looks good on paper but is only such a TINY tweeeek that it gets completely swamped in all that kind of stuff like the block measurements up there. If your motor isn't built to a degree of perfection where all that kind of thing is already PERFECT, then whatever "unshrouding" effect exists from that 1/16" more space out there, is DWARFED by all that other, like the deck clearance, how positively perfectly located above the cyl the head is (a function of the dowel pin locations), push rod geometry, and about a thousand other things that have a BIGGER effect.

/rant off

 

Uhh yea, what he said. I generally don't waste the wear and tear on my keyboard to rant about things that have already been discussed ad naseum (feel free to search on the boards here about 377 CID engines...) - but god bless sofa for doing so - all very good information.

I'm not sure about hype, I don't read a whole lot of magazines. They tend to try to sell parts, and brag about HP/$ when they are a magazine, and naturally get a lot of work and parts for free, making it a poor comparison.
Either way, an engine that peaks at 5600RPM is not really what I would call a "Camaro" engine. That would be a "hot" truck engine, or a "steamy" TPI engine, but not a HOT Camaro engine.

Port size is a pretty good indicator of the RPM range you'll be in (based on the CID of the engine). Like you said, it's a wide indicator, due to port shape and style. Vortec ports, or LSx style "cathedral" ports are a whole different animal. The "typical" comparison, ie 882 heads, or Iron eagles, are the "traditional" style, ie old school if you will. In that world, a 170cc-180 ish head is pretty good for a 305 type engine. The 180-195 is good for a 350-383 engine, and 200+ is for 400CID or larger, or very high RPM. This is based on building an engine to make power in the 3000-6000RPM "hot street" type of catagory. If you're building a "Camaro" engine where you want great mileage, lots of low end, etc, then you can step down. Or if you're building a SUPER high RPM engine, you can step above. But for the large majority of us, if we have a 350cid engine, want to drive it on the street with some degree of streetability, we'd be "happiest" with a 185-195cc sized port (on traditional heads). Vortecs have a different port shape, so they do "less with more".

I'm going to wear out my quote button here now, so i'll digress.

Steffy - Head gasket brand is something you can decide on later, that's a very small detail. I'd be checking what the pistons are, deck height is, etc. as a first step.

 

I know its a small detail, but I just figured while we are on the topic id ask haha

 

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