Looking for some cam help.
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From: md
Car: 88 firebird
Engine: 350tpi
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 373
Looking for some cam help.
I've been looking at two mild cams for my 355 with HSR,maf but cant decide .The two are close and i see some run both of them. one is the 08-304-8 Camshaft, Hydraulic Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 266/276, Lift .500/.510,and the other is 07-304-8 Camshaft, Hydraulic Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 266/276, Lift .500/.510, Chevy, LT1/LT4, that says for lt1. I am also using some Patriot Performance Freedom Series 185s heads. thanks for any help.
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Re: Looking for some cam help.
Same cam. Only difference is the length of the dowel pin, and maybe whether they have the fuel pump lobe or not. If you buy the 07 (LT1) version, you'll have to modify it to be exactly what the 08 version already is; and the fuel pump lobe doesn't matter one way or the other.
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From: Bright, IN
Car: '86 Bird, 96 ImpalaSS, 98 C1500XCab
Engine: LG4, LT1, L31
Transmission: 700R4, 4L60E, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.73 Tors, 4.88 spool, 3.73 Eaton
Re: Looking for some cam help.
Like Sofa said, it's the same cam.
I wouldn't run that cam, especially in an NA setup. It has the old Comp "Magnum" lobes. Something with their "Extreme Energy" lobes, at similar duration and better low speed manners, will outperform it on average power output. Also, if NA, look for something with a bit narrower LSA, like in the 110-112 range.
The closest "Extreme Energy" cam off the top of my head that would be a better choice is the "501" : 212/218/112.
I wouldn't run that cam, especially in an NA setup. It has the old Comp "Magnum" lobes. Something with their "Extreme Energy" lobes, at similar duration and better low speed manners, will outperform it on average power output. Also, if NA, look for something with a bit narrower LSA, like in the 110-112 range.
The closest "Extreme Energy" cam off the top of my head that would be a better choice is the "501" : 212/218/112.
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From: Bright, IN
Car: '86 Bird, 96 ImpalaSS, 98 C1500XCab
Engine: LG4, LT1, L31
Transmission: 700R4, 4L60E, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.73 Tors, 4.88 spool, 3.73 Eaton
Re: Looking for some cam help.
What are the valvespring specs on those heads?
Seat pressure at what installed height?
Max lift from that installed height?
If you're thinking about that 501 cam, it will want at least 110 on the seat to handle 6000 rpm. And IIRC, lift with 1.6 rockers will be .52X"
Seat pressure at what installed height?
Max lift from that installed height?
If you're thinking about that 501 cam, it will want at least 110 on the seat to handle 6000 rpm. And IIRC, lift with 1.6 rockers will be .52X"
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From: Pittsburgh PA
Car: 89 Iroc-z
Engine: 555 BBC Turbo
Transmission: TH400
Axle/Gears: MWC 9” 3.00
Re: Looking for some cam help.
Wouldnt bother with a sub 218 deg cam with hsr and those heads. 502 comp cam is smallest id go but then again i like larger grinds. 503 or similar is what id like to see. Solid 2800-6000 rpm powerband. Abit of lope but still streetable. Low 12 sec car
Depends on your goals tho. 503 ish cam would need 3000 rpm stall minimum to really shine. Could drive smaller converters but track times would suffer. Doin a 218 deg xe grind would maybe make few more ponies than lt4 hotcam but be 2-3 times the cost. Thats why its not really worth it imo to go smaller. Can find used zz4 cams for cheap which will be within few hp of a 501 cam and used 503 cams and lt4 hots for under 200 often 150
Depends on your goals tho. 503 ish cam would need 3000 rpm stall minimum to really shine. Could drive smaller converters but track times would suffer. Doin a 218 deg xe grind would maybe make few more ponies than lt4 hotcam but be 2-3 times the cost. Thats why its not really worth it imo to go smaller. Can find used zz4 cams for cheap which will be within few hp of a 501 cam and used 503 cams and lt4 hots for under 200 often 150
Last edited by Orr89RocZ; Oct 8, 2012 at 01:55 PM.
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Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 74
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From: md
Car: 88 firebird
Engine: 350tpi
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 373
Re: Looking for some cam help.
Thanks guys .Im gonna go with the Xtreme Energy 08-502-08 cam . now with this and these other mods I can get this car out if its own way. thanks
Re: Looking for some cam help.
And what i recommended is a street cam. The 502 is a small cam for your combo. You should go up at least one size.
To give you an idea of the cam size, the cam i recommended is good with a min stall of 2000. The one you picked is good with stock stall converter. You have 2800.
To give you an idea of the cam size, the cam i recommended is good with a min stall of 2000. The one you picked is good with stock stall converter. You have 2800.
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Pittsburgh PA
Car: 89 Iroc-z
Engine: 555 BBC Turbo
Transmission: TH400
Axle/Gears: MWC 9” 3.00
Re: Looking for some cam help.
Just about any cam will drive with stock stall with good tune but it wont be optimal. Whole point of a converter with higher stall is to get car in the power curve so it can start accelerating faster. Stock L98 will make peak torque around 3200 rpm and a 2800-3000 converter tends to work very well for a track car and also on street. It really makes low speed roll throttle stomps fun on the street.
With hsr and those heads and 502-503 cam peak torque will be up near 4000 rpm but be relatively flat between 3600-4500 or so. To realllly get all you can out of it on a sticky tire, 3600 would work nicely for the 503. 3200-3400 wouldnt be bad for 502 cam as long as you have 3.23-3.73 gears.
2800 is abit low for optimal acceleration efforts but if you are not taking car to drag strip then it really doesnt matter. There can be some bogging feeling down low when running to low of a converter as you wait for torque curve to arrive but it will still be enjoyable to drive. I just like abit more converter in my cars. I went 3200 on my ls1 and wish i went 4000. Its just too low for best performance but still runs decent. My turbo car now has a converter that stalls tad too low for boost threshold so its lazy. Everything from gearing to converter to cam rpm needs to match to have an optimal setup
My friends car that i helped tune had a 280xfi cam in it on stock converter. Thing was a dog til 3800 but it drove fine. Put in a 3600 stall and it ran better but 4000-4500 was optimal for drag setup.
Street driving with lock up stalls isnt much different than stock. Theres alot of slip before the lockup speed but once it locks its like stock. You can tune that point to your driving habits or even put it on a manual switch.
Since you have 2800, 502 cam likely is better match to that than a 503 but 503 will outpower from 5000 on up id say. Maybe 5500 on up to 6000+. slight tradeoff of midrange for 10-15 hp more up top end.
With hsr and those heads and 502-503 cam peak torque will be up near 4000 rpm but be relatively flat between 3600-4500 or so. To realllly get all you can out of it on a sticky tire, 3600 would work nicely for the 503. 3200-3400 wouldnt be bad for 502 cam as long as you have 3.23-3.73 gears.
2800 is abit low for optimal acceleration efforts but if you are not taking car to drag strip then it really doesnt matter. There can be some bogging feeling down low when running to low of a converter as you wait for torque curve to arrive but it will still be enjoyable to drive. I just like abit more converter in my cars. I went 3200 on my ls1 and wish i went 4000. Its just too low for best performance but still runs decent. My turbo car now has a converter that stalls tad too low for boost threshold so its lazy. Everything from gearing to converter to cam rpm needs to match to have an optimal setup
My friends car that i helped tune had a 280xfi cam in it on stock converter. Thing was a dog til 3800 but it drove fine. Put in a 3600 stall and it ran better but 4000-4500 was optimal for drag setup.
Street driving with lock up stalls isnt much different than stock. Theres alot of slip before the lockup speed but once it locks its like stock. You can tune that point to your driving habits or even put it on a manual switch.
Since you have 2800, 502 cam likely is better match to that than a 503 but 503 will outpower from 5000 on up id say. Maybe 5500 on up to 6000+. slight tradeoff of midrange for 10-15 hp more up top end.
Last edited by Orr89RocZ; Oct 9, 2012 at 06:44 AM.
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From: Bright, IN
Car: '86 Bird, 96 ImpalaSS, 98 C1500XCab
Engine: LG4, LT1, L31
Transmission: 700R4, 4L60E, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.73 Tors, 4.88 spool, 3.73 Eaton
Re: Looking for some cam help.
More comments about the stall speed versus cam choice:
Since you've now said you're going with a 2800 converter, I agree that the CC502 is a logical choice.
IMO, the CC503 is too much for a 2800 converter. After you've driven a proper engine/TC matchup, that combo would feel like it fell on its face under moderate-to-heavy throttle when it drops into the next gear.
I'm running a mild ZZ3 cam (203/221/112) in my pickup, was used to the Vigilante 3000 behind it, then had a stockish 1800 converter in it for just a few weeks, and it was downright ridiculous how it killed the power on a full throttle upshift.
Also, if you want to save a few bucks, consider Orr's comments about the ZZ3/ZZ4 cam (I've picked them up for $75) or the Hotcam. With no visible damage, they're as good as new (made by Crane for GM - billet material as opposed to Comp's cast cams). Hotcam is the most I would go with a 2800 converter, and that would be more street oriented than track.
Some people are really spooked by how much converter it takes to get the most from a cam/engine combo on the dragstrip. My 2-ton B-body ran it's best STOCK cam times with a Yank SS3600 converter, and it was completely docile for daily driving. That converter is now behind the ZZ3 cammed Vortec in my 4900 lb pickup and is my daily driver and tow vehicle.
Since you've now said you're going with a 2800 converter, I agree that the CC502 is a logical choice.
IMO, the CC503 is too much for a 2800 converter. After you've driven a proper engine/TC matchup, that combo would feel like it fell on its face under moderate-to-heavy throttle when it drops into the next gear.
I'm running a mild ZZ3 cam (203/221/112) in my pickup, was used to the Vigilante 3000 behind it, then had a stockish 1800 converter in it for just a few weeks, and it was downright ridiculous how it killed the power on a full throttle upshift.
Also, if you want to save a few bucks, consider Orr's comments about the ZZ3/ZZ4 cam (I've picked them up for $75) or the Hotcam. With no visible damage, they're as good as new (made by Crane for GM - billet material as opposed to Comp's cast cams). Hotcam is the most I would go with a 2800 converter, and that would be more street oriented than track.
Some people are really spooked by how much converter it takes to get the most from a cam/engine combo on the dragstrip. My 2-ton B-body ran it's best STOCK cam times with a Yank SS3600 converter, and it was completely docile for daily driving. That converter is now behind the ZZ3 cammed Vortec in my 4900 lb pickup and is my daily driver and tow vehicle.
Last edited by 86LG4Bird; Oct 9, 2012 at 09:44 AM.
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