I got my heads off. gave them to the machine shop to get done. and some how. am having a problem cranking the engine by hand. its taking a lot of force to move it.. sooner or later it gets to the point where it cant even move it all. and lol that's where am at now. Personally I think its getting caught up by rust. I was wondering. would it be smart if I jumped the starter and tried cranking her from there. or try hitting a piston down to get her to move freely.

ps; I haven't touched. the bolts on the crank. and when I had the car started a couple weeks ago it ran freely. and I was able to turn the crank (with the spark plugs in. with ease) -- really aint sure on what I could of done.

 

You removed the heads but the engine is still in the chassis?

Did you leave the transmission & flywheel attached and the trans in gear? if so then you are trying to crank against the resistance of the drivetrain.

Make sure you are in park or neutral and try again.

The short block should crank by hand hand fairly easy.
but why did you crank it at all? now you have thrown off the timing.
You will need to re-establish TDC on #1 piston before you re-install the timing chain & distributor. unless you marked everything before dis-assembly to get the timing close.

 

something isnt making sense..it should be easier to move without the heads..check what was said above..
You suspect rust, where?

 

Engine is still on chassis, trans is still in, and yes am in neutral.... timing I have marked.. I swear man. this is the first time I have ever felt that if I try hard enough on the crank bolt. that its going to snap.. and in the past I was able to cycle her over like nothing. I cant seem to figure out whats preventing her from moving.

 

Yep. I said the same thing. the only thing I see in its way is some rust on the cylinder walls. that's all.

 

Why exactly are you tearing down this engine? Any sort of failure?

 

Before forcing I would figure out where the binding is happening for sure. It shouldn't turn over that hard and you don't want to snap the bolt off in the crank snout.

They make crank keyway sockets for this very reason. I have one I use when doing assembly or if I have to remove a balancer or something. They also make ones you bolt onto the balancer with the 3 pulley bolts. I have one of those too. Either way replacing a balancer is a hell of a lot easier than repairing a stripped crankshaft bolt.

 

There should be no rust on the cylinder walls, unless you blew a head gasket?


You took the heads off and sent to a machine shop because?

if the heads needed work why do you think the rest of the engine is fine?

the short block should crank by hand with very little effort.

if you overheated and popped a head gasket you could have overheated the engine oil and spun the main bearing, locked the piston rings, etc.

What does the engine oil look like is it a "milkshake" ? (coolant in the oil)
if so that is bad.. you passed water into the crankcase

Is it burnt... feel gritty.. look black and grey ? if so that is bad
bearing, piston ring, piston damage.

since you cant turn the motor over... there is a problem.. I would yank that thing out, put it on a stand and remove the oil pan. and or get it to the machine shop for inspection.

 

Has the engine been sitting? If the cylinder walls are dry or have surface rust, then you found your problem.

 

I would try spraying WD-40 (or equivalent) on the rim of each piston this might help loosen up any rust that might be causing problems with rotation.

 

Listen. this car sat for 10 years before i started it a year and a half.so yes of course theres gonna be some rust on the walls. but listen. i sent the heads to get em cleaned polished, new guides & seals and to be checked for cracks...... I also got the engine to rotate. by hitting the starter and spraying pb blaster on the cylinders. so am good.

 

So listen. if the cylinder walls were rusty what about the piston rings?
what about the cam bearings? what about the main bearings? do you honestly think some PB blaster is going to remove the rust, re-hone the cylinder walls and make sure the rings don't fail?

Funny, no one has time or money to do things right the first time, but they always have the time & money to do it over, and over, and over.

Do whatever you like, it's your car, but I would be checking everything now while the motor is half apart to make sure it's ok.

rust on close tolerance surfaces is NOT a good thing.

 

Yes, even if you do get it broke loose the short block still needs to go to the machinist for complete service.

 

This isn't going to end well...

 

So has it been running for a year and half or did you just fire up once a year and half ago?

If there is any type of surface rust on the walls it needs to be pulled apart and cleaned up if you want it last and be dependable. If it's a derby motor or something that junk just run it if it'll start.

I was always been taught if you can catch your fingernail on the wall that means there is a scratch or uneven surface and it should be cleaned up. Depending on the mileage and your goals for the motor you might get away with just getting a good hone tool from the parts store and running it up and down to get a good cross hatch pattern again and putting new bearings and gaskets on everything.

If it's going to be any type of performance or high RPM taking it to a machine shop is the way to go.

 

Your right and thats understandable. But I never said that "pb blaster was going to get the rust off". For the piston rings. I can tell you there probably fine. when I compression tested them, I put up 160 to 180 psi with each cylinder. I also checked the walls of the cylinders. there is not one scratch moving vertical. now when it came to rust, there was some at the top of 1 or 2 of the cylinders "thats it". and just carbon build up on top of the pistons.. for the cam bearings and main bearings. thats a good question......

 

http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/Sh...?sort=3&page=1

I took photos. for you to get an idea of what you see. let me know what you think. I ran my finger up and down the walls. its as smooth as a violin. my finger nail didnt catch on any thing either. but the slight rust. i mean u can tell when u feel it. I wish i new how it was to form on most of the cylinder walls in the same spot. would i be able to take a very light send paper and run over that. or do you got any other ideas before i go ahed and tear this block down.

 

Of course if we had known that little fact ,right from the start it would have put a different light on the subject

 

JUNK ! all 8 holes are rusted and the top rings for sure are rusted as well.

that need needs to come apart & be cleaned (honed & possibly bored if the rust is deep enough)

A ball hone on a hand drill is not going to remove all that rust and the cylinder bore will be distorted, plus you will never get a good cross hatching.
That is the cheap way, the motor won't last, it needs to go on a boring / honing machine and done correctly.

Your machinist may want to over-bore .010 to .030 depends how deep the rust is.

The top rings for sure are rusted and perhaps the 2nd as well.


This is what happens when you store an engine for long time without fogging the combustion chambers with oil.

condensation forms in the combustion chamber, and without an oil film it begins to rust the cast iron cylinders.

Notice how the rust stops at the ring pack locations, because their was a film of oil acting as a barrier to the condensation, but eventually all the oil drained back down to the pan.

the high points in the engine would be subjected to condensation. damage. (valvetrain, lifters, cam)

I would not take the chance, plus you have quite a bit of carbon build up on the pistons.

 

Alright al take your word on it. al rip her out. but now heres my question. if she gets bored out. I would have to change the pistons, bearings and what else ?

 

that depends on your machinist / builder & how much of a bore it will take to clean them up, AND the condition of the rest of the rotating assembly & block


Best case you clean the block & bores pistons etc. and re-use your pistons with oversized rings fresh bearings for the cam, mains, & rods. Maybe polish the crank journals.


Worse case.. you find more rust inside and other signs of distress, and this will have to dealt with accordingly.

This is why I recommend tearing it down for inspection and do what your machinist / builder recommends.

 

I can't wait for the drama, disappointment and pictures of broken crap LOL

This is going to be epic

 

alrighty

 

drama, disapointment.... yeah you gona have to wait fool.

 

yeah I'm the fool..but I can spell correctly

 

Wow did this thread turn ugly quick! Name calling and wishes for a bad turnout.
Shep, unless you are trying to keep a numbers matching car because its special, I suggest you cease and desist any attempts to fix this engine and get a crate 350. Even the HO 305 was weak from the factory and you will have nearly as much invested in rebuilding it, if not more. The fact that has not been mentioned here is that all the rust is just where the rings stop at the top of the stroke on every cylinder. This means it ran with rust further down the cylinder walls, but got scraped off by the rings.You can see in this image the pitting from the rust just above the piston. BAD.....VERY BAD.
Minimally, you will need to bore, meaning new pistons and rings. (and that's half-assing it) To do this right, I would put a figure of around $1500, since from what I can gather, you are not a machinist nor an adept mechanic.(these skills are not cheap) If you own a large boat that 305 will make an awesome anchor.

 

yeah I know man. I was thinking about a 350. although I cant see my self bolting that to my t5.. but other than that. I like the HO model. I mean like they didn't make that many of these. and its rare to me. aint tryna change it.

 

what eva you say man. this just how we talk from the boros

 

OK, if you're hell bent on putting a 305 HO back in there, I'll suggest another option. Get a rebuilt short block and use your top end. You'll still be close to the same figure I gave you before though. The main diffence is you will have a bottom end that has a warranty, and if it fails it's not out of your pocket. Rebuilding an engine is not something to be done on a shoestring budget with little knowledge.If you have limited mechanical ability, bolting a top end on a sound block is possible with few reprocussions, if you follow a Haynes manual or something similar.

People can be harsh here, but it is because they know and have done this before. If you come in here seeking advice and don't heed their warnings, who's fault is it when tragedy befalls you?

 

oh wait this is a 305... ?! I did not even pay attention to that.

you will eventaully grenade the T5 with a stronger engine.


But if you just want a clean stock #s matching car, that is cool too. You are going to spend a couple grand to get that engine back to 100% because right now it is hurt.

otherwise if you want more "bang for your buck" get a crate motor 350, upgrade the trans, rear end, add some subframe connectors and be done with it.


Not too bad if you can do most the work yourself maybe just farm out the welding for the sub-frame everything else is remove and replace.

 

Yeah, in all honesty, no one would ever know if you stuffed a 350 in it.
Just tell them its the stock 305 if you want to.

 

that's why I said junk.. sorry for the brutal honesty.

 

i mean. its not that i aint got no mechanical abilty. i been working in a metal shop since i was 11, welding, polishing, grinding, fixing machines etc.etc.. you know am just tryna say, am not stupid. because i dont know if you figure the person behind these posts is sum scawny lil munckin lol. that aint the case. Now what im tryna figure, is why your saying rebuilding here might fail. why is that. lay it down to me. ..... yeah i know another block would be better. but personally am starting to like the challenge....

 

na i understand frmula. your right. it looks like sht.... see i know what your sayin with a 350 and maby a t56. because damnn that sure does sound catchy. theyd match up nice. but man i dont know if i want to spend the money on that, that would sure be alot.. and i just put in a a new clutch/flywheel/pp last month. now what al do with this is, al strip it and bring it to the machine shop and see what they think

 

Sorry if I came across like I think you are incompetent. Before I even commented in this thread I went and looked at all threads started by you to get some background on what you have been through with this vehicle and what you needed help with. I have to say it seems it has been just that, a challenge the whole way.
It just seems strange to me that all of the cylinders are rusted. At any one position in the crank rotation there are only a few that should have open valves. Some will be on a compression stroke, and others on the power stroke. The block may be able to be saved, if the pitting is not too deep to bore out. Max overbore is .060'' which gives you .030'' that you can take off of the walls. I can't say for certain from pics but that pitting looks pretty deep. This is just one of the worries that are bropught up from looking at a pic. Who knows what else is going on inside until it gets tore down?
As far as my mentioning failure, it's just a possibility. There is a huge difference between bolting on parts and delving into building an engine. I suggested a rebuilt block as sort of a "learn to crawl before you run". There are tolerances that must be strictly adhered to if you want this build to last. Not saying you can't do it, but you will need help from a machinist. As I said earlier, this is not cheap. You will have a lot of money in what will inevitably be a much weaker engine than a 350 for about the same cost.
I really do wish the best for you in this build and hope it becomes all you expect from it.

 

I think if this machine shop is not looking to steal your money they will be honest and tell you it's scrap, because for the same $ you plan to spend they can build you a 350, or get you a 350 crate motor.


That being said, you could sell your T5 with the new parts.. just post it in the for sale section Some guys tinker with them and claim they can be made stronger to live behind a 350.. you could read up on that topic.

You can also see if your new clutch assy will interchange with a T56.
I don't play with manuals on this car, funny because my daily driver is a Jeep with a 6 speed LOL.

but someone like Hawks always has manuals and good core 350's for sale if you are looking to save some money... just shop around..

 

well fellas. i took the engine out today. and stripped it down. suprised to say that there was ZERO rust on the rings. they looked normal. the journals of the crank and cam looked good. the bearings had slight wear to them. and like you guys seen there is just rust that is on the top of the cylinders. Am going to bring it to the machine shop tommorow. and see what they say.

 

Has the shop rendered a verdict yet?

 

what's the deal shep? did your builder go on vacation?