85 TA smog problems solved - this may help others...
85 TA smog problems solved - this may help others...
I picked up a one owner 85 TA two weeks ago. It has an original 67,000 miles as proved by Carfax. It is a bit rough, but well worth saving.
I'm in CA, so I had to smog it to get it registered.
The first time through it failed in CO, both speeds. I took it home, and changed out plugs (it had the wrong ones in place), plug wires (one was burned through), the dist cap, rotor, coil, and IAC (it idled fast, but when blipped would return to normal). It also would put out white smoke intermittently.
The second time through, it failed everywhere and was designated as a gross polluter. I took it to the local highly regarded STAR repair shop and this is what they found.
The smoking was caused by the valve covers filling up with oil due to plugged oil return holes in the head. Not driving it much allowed the oil to turn to sludge and clog the holes. Low miles in in old car does not always mean it was well cared for.
The EGR valve was replaced along with the catalytic converter. The third time through the smog machine, it passed with flying colors.
It looks like the mechanical problems are solved. Now for some other issues. I found a nice set of leather front and back seats to dress up the interior, a new front bumper cover to replace the original beat up one, and some good tail lights for the back end. I have door and fender fitment issues to correct. Maybe in a few more weeks it will be almost presentable.
Thanks to all who contribute to this forum. I am learning a lot from you guys.
I'm in CA, so I had to smog it to get it registered.
The first time through it failed in CO, both speeds. I took it home, and changed out plugs (it had the wrong ones in place), plug wires (one was burned through), the dist cap, rotor, coil, and IAC (it idled fast, but when blipped would return to normal). It also would put out white smoke intermittently.
The second time through, it failed everywhere and was designated as a gross polluter. I took it to the local highly regarded STAR repair shop and this is what they found.
The smoking was caused by the valve covers filling up with oil due to plugged oil return holes in the head. Not driving it much allowed the oil to turn to sludge and clog the holes. Low miles in in old car does not always mean it was well cared for.
The EGR valve was replaced along with the catalytic converter. The third time through the smog machine, it passed with flying colors.
It looks like the mechanical problems are solved. Now for some other issues. I found a nice set of leather front and back seats to dress up the interior, a new front bumper cover to replace the original beat up one, and some good tail lights for the back end. I have door and fender fitment issues to correct. Maybe in a few more weeks it will be almost presentable.
Thanks to all who contribute to this forum. I am learning a lot from you guys.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,187
Likes: 43
From: Littleton, CO USA
Car: 82 Berlinetta/57 Bel Air
Engine: L92/LQ4 (both w/4" stroke)
Transmission: 4L80E/4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12B-3.73/9"-3.89
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Wow, oil return holes plugged? I've seen it, but not often. I'm sure the mechanic cleaned up what he could, but you'd be well advised to keep changing the oil regularly, and either using a flush just before changing it, or some people put a quart of ATF in shortly before changing it. A quart of synthetic with 4 quarts of petroleum based is another tactic.
The lifter valley is bound to be full of the same stuff, and the oil pan probably isn't immune, either. Don't go long between changes (every month or 500 miles, for instance). I've also seen fresh/regular oil changes on previously neglected engines loosen up so much gunk that the oil pump pickup got plugged up, starving the engine for oil and wiping out the bearings.
Wow, oil return holes plugged? I've seen it, but not often. I'm sure the mechanic cleaned up what he could, but you'd be well advised to keep changing the oil regularly, and either using a flush just before changing it, or some people put a quart of ATF in shortly before changing it. A quart of synthetic with 4 quarts of petroleum based is another tactic.
The lifter valley is bound to be full of the same stuff, and the oil pan probably isn't immune, either. Don't go long between changes (every month or 500 miles, for instance). I've also seen fresh/regular oil changes on previously neglected engines loosen up so much gunk that the oil pump pickup got plugged up, starving the engine for oil and wiping out the bearings.
Re: 85 TA smog problems solved - this may help others...
Thanks for your response. The mechanic advised me to do the same thing you suggested. I am thinking that monthly oil changes for 6 months or so would be a good way to proceed. I don't want to break anything big loose, but hope that eventually most of the sludge will be dissolved by the detergents in the regular oil.
I do have a can of Seafoam that I've been thinking about putting in the oil a few miles before the next oil change.
I do have a can of Seafoam that I've been thinking about putting in the oil a few miles before the next oil change.
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From: NYC
Car: 1982 Recaro TA, 1989 TTA#948
Re: 85 TA smog problems solved - this may help others...
It sounds more like the oil was not changed regularly. My car sat for years and this did not happen.
Joined: Sep 2005
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Car: Yes
Engine: Usually
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Re: 85 TA smog problems solved - this may help others...
I've seen it more times than I care to recount. Including times that I took valve covers off and a full QT of oil ended up on my garage floor.
Coat hangers are a WONDERFUL thing sometimes.
Coat hangers are a WONDERFUL thing sometimes.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,403
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From: ms. gulf coast
Car: 91 R/S , 89 dodge p/u
Engine: L31 GM crate re-cammed , 318
Transmission: T-5 , 4 speed auto
Axle/Gears: 3.42 , ?
Re: 85 TA smog problems solved - this may help others...
as sofa said I too have seen it many times . regular oil changes prevent this crap . clean oil is the lifeblood of an engine . want clogged arteries in your car ?
Re: 85 TA smog problems solved - this may help others...
Too many short-trips where the oil doesn't fully warm up will do that as well, especially in a carbureted engine.
Now, I'm also going to focus in on the comment you made about the idle speed hanging up but dropping down when you blip the throttle. That is totally normal for the first few minutes it's running. Any time the choke is on, even slightly, you will be running on one of the steps of the "fast idle cam". If it does it any time beyond, say, 5 minutes of running from overnight-cold, there is a problem with the choke system, however.
Could be inadequate voltage to the coil or could be the choke heater coil itself is just worn out. First thing I'd try is measuring the resistance of the coil. Do this between the electrical connector on it's side (where the single choke heater wire would normally plug on) and a good ground (body of the carb itself will do fine). A fresh choke heater coil will be around 10 ohms. A good used one about 15 ohms. Anything over 20 ohms and it's SHOT, and needs to be replaced.
Also, the choke heater wire connector is FAMOUS for being buggered up and destroyed on these cars. Every dipshit mechanic in the world snaps them off. I have no idea why, but they do it with frightening regularity. This will, obviously, cause inadequate voltage supply to the choke heater coil and, again, it won't open like it should. If yours is buggered up you can buy a fresh connector from any good auto parts store with a "speciality electrical connector" catalog.
Long story short- it's a VERY common failure point on these cars. And guess what that can contribute to? Yep, oil contamination, leading to sludge build-up due to an overly rich mixutre for too long on cold starts.
Now, I'm also going to focus in on the comment you made about the idle speed hanging up but dropping down when you blip the throttle. That is totally normal for the first few minutes it's running. Any time the choke is on, even slightly, you will be running on one of the steps of the "fast idle cam". If it does it any time beyond, say, 5 minutes of running from overnight-cold, there is a problem with the choke system, however.
Could be inadequate voltage to the coil or could be the choke heater coil itself is just worn out. First thing I'd try is measuring the resistance of the coil. Do this between the electrical connector on it's side (where the single choke heater wire would normally plug on) and a good ground (body of the carb itself will do fine). A fresh choke heater coil will be around 10 ohms. A good used one about 15 ohms. Anything over 20 ohms and it's SHOT, and needs to be replaced.
Also, the choke heater wire connector is FAMOUS for being buggered up and destroyed on these cars. Every dipshit mechanic in the world snaps them off. I have no idea why, but they do it with frightening regularity. This will, obviously, cause inadequate voltage supply to the choke heater coil and, again, it won't open like it should. If yours is buggered up you can buy a fresh connector from any good auto parts store with a "speciality electrical connector" catalog.
Long story short- it's a VERY common failure point on these cars. And guess what that can contribute to? Yep, oil contamination, leading to sludge build-up due to an overly rich mixutre for too long on cold starts.
Last edited by Damon; Aug 8, 2013 at 10:06 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,036
Likes: 5
From: knoxville tn
Car: 86 IROC
Engine: 5.0 TPI
Transmission: 700-R-4
Axle/Gears: 2.73 open
Re: 85 TA smog problems solved - this may help others...
Thanks for your response. The mechanic advised me to do the same thing you suggested. I am thinking that monthly oil changes for 6 months or so would be a good way to proceed. I don't want to break anything big loose, but hope that eventually most of the sludge will be dissolved by the detergents in the regular oil.
I do have a can of Seafoam that I've been thinking about putting in the oil a few miles before the next oil change.
I do have a can of Seafoam that I've been thinking about putting in the oil a few miles before the next oil change.
Re: 85 TA smog problems solved - this may help others...
I'd probably hold off on the seafoam (or any other additives) at least until your short oil changes come out clean. As long as the desludging effort is making noticeable progress, then it might be better to take the slow and steady approach rather than getting aggressive with it. You don't want to dislodge too much at once.
Once progress is slowing down then maybe try the seafoam.
At least for now be easy on the engine, so you don't stress the upper limits of it's oil flow. You could also hook up a mechanical oil pressure gauge to see how it acts. If you notice oil pressure dropping at higher RPM then you have a definite problem.
Once progress is slowing down then maybe try the seafoam.
At least for now be easy on the engine, so you don't stress the upper limits of it's oil flow. You could also hook up a mechanical oil pressure gauge to see how it acts. If you notice oil pressure dropping at higher RPM then you have a definite problem.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 255
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From: Watertown NY
Car: 1986 Trans Am
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700r4
Re: 85 TA smog problems solved - this may help others...
I'd probably hold off on the seafoam (or any other additives) at least until your short oil changes come out clean. As long as the desludging effort is making noticeable progress, then it might be better to take the slow and steady approach rather than getting aggressive with it. You don't want to dislodge too much at once.
Once progress is slowing down then maybe try the seafoam.
At least for now be easy on the engine, so you don't stress the upper limits of it's oil flow. You could also hook up a mechanical oil pressure gauge to see how it acts. If you notice oil pressure dropping at higher RPM then you have a definite problem.
Once progress is slowing down then maybe try the seafoam.
At least for now be easy on the engine, so you don't stress the upper limits of it's oil flow. You could also hook up a mechanical oil pressure gauge to see how it acts. If you notice oil pressure dropping at higher RPM then you have a definite problem.
When I was 16, I plugged up the oil pump screen on an otherwise good running engine by putting Gunk engine flush in it. Slow and steady is the way to go. A quart of Marvel Mystery Oil with 4 qts of oil is a more gentle cleaner than seafoam. For the moment I would just use a good quality oil and change it often.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 553
Likes: 1
From: Ballwin, MO
Car: 1987 Trans Am
Engine: 355 tpi
Transmission: 5 speed
Re: 85 TA smog problems solved - this may help others...
Changing the oil like stated is all fine and could be good but also bad. The best thing to do is clean the engine out, Pull the intake off check and see how bad it is there, Clean as needed the drop the oil pan and clean up in there as well, Really its time for a rebuild, and hot tank the block making sure all the oil passages are cleaned. That sludge build up can be anywhere and if not taken care of properly may leave you stranded with a blown engine.
Re: 85 TA smog problems solved - this may help others...
Thanks for the info, having problems with passing smog too.purchase TA with some problems, smogging has been one of them. My oil presser gage was not working and now I know why? I hope this is true.Put things together one step at a time.
Re: 85 TA smog problems solved - this may help others...
I replaced the oil pressure sender too. I had to use a 1 1/2" pipe nipple from Home Depot to get the new one in place.
Regarding the oil in the valve covers, after it has been run for a while, take the oil fill cap off and look inside the cover. If your oil return holes are plugged, you will see lots of oil inside the cover.
Good luck with your project.
Regarding the oil in the valve covers, after it has been run for a while, take the oil fill cap off and look inside the cover. If your oil return holes are plugged, you will see lots of oil inside the cover.
Good luck with your project.
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