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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
Ok here's the dilema I am putting together a 383 stroker for the TA and I'm torn on what heads would work best for my set up. My friends have thrown some options at me, but I want to make sure what I am going to get is going to be what works for me. So if any of you motor experts could throw some advice my way I would appreciate it.
Here's my set up so far. I have a gen 1 SBC bored .40 over. It's an Eagle steel Rotating Piston Crank Assembly Kit with forged dished pistons and H beam rods. The cam is a solid roller with 660/630 lift. (Will post the cam card when I can.).
Ok now that is out of the way I want to pick up some heads. I am leaning towards a pair of AFR's for around $1,700ish. Another dilema I am looking at is I did the set up so far with intentions to at some point add a vortech supercharger kit next income tax season. So that's why I want to get the heads right so that when I'm ready for the vortech I dont need a different set of heads all over. Also while I'm at it if anyone has some recommendations for the intake/carb let me know. Thanks in advance for the tech help.
Heres the cam. Also when you said "AFR 195's will do that" I was actually looking at something higher. From what people have been telling me I dont want to go under a 210. You feel 195's would do the trick?
I think that cam is big for what you want and need. Lsa is also tad tight imo for what you need. Cam would fit a 210-220 heads rpm potential tho but its a 1000-1200 hp setup easily
I think that cam is big for what you want and need. Lsa is also tad tight imo for what you need. Cam would fit a 210-220 heads rpm potential tho but its a 1000-1200 hp setup easily
Agreed. That's a wicked nasty cam for a serious NA engine. It has no business on a FI setup.
I know the cam is a tad over the top, but the price I got the solid roller and lifters for I couldn't pass it up. I figured I could work with it. Also here is the vortech kit I was eventually looking at getting. http://www.jegs.com/i/Vortech/933/4G...j7XBoCfTDw_wcB
So with the links and info I have given so far do you think I should go with a smaller head?
So you think I'm better off not running the vortech with the set up?
I won't candy coat this.......I think you have no understanding of what you're trying to do, and you should not buy another single part until you have a workable plan. Right now it's not even close.
How do you plan to use the car?
Forget about using that cam at all. It would be suited to an engine much larger than 383 ci and revving to 8000 rpm. If you use the car at all, you'd probably spend $1000-$2000 annually on valvetrain maintenance/replacing parts!
Ultra-high compression ratio. Race fuel only. ........
Lol dont need anything over 210 on a little 383. I ran 195's on a 400 and ran 9.7-9.8's on just 14 psi. 640-660 whp on a mustang dyno
I ran 195's on a 7000 rpm 383 on a 150 shot, 520's whp. 10.6's at 128
I second Orr. Def knows what hes talking about.
The competition ported 195's would prob be spot on. Also why dont you call around and talk to whichever cam company you're interested in going with and have them make you a custom grind for exactly what you want to do with the car. I wish I would have.
The cars used mainly for car shows. I never ran it down the track though I wanted to just never got around to trailering it to the track. Really only reason i wanted to take it to the track was to see what time I could get in the 1/4.
I appreciate all the replies and the suggestions, but unfortunately the shop already assembled the bottom end. So I'm definitely going to keep checking into the current set up. I contacted AFR to see what they recommend. Still waiting on a reply.
I'm gonna exhaust all efforts to salvage what I have already put together before I go yanking anything back out.
In a general way, using The Force reduces the significance of mechanical changes to the motor (head port size etc.). Note that I said REDUCES, not ELMINATES.
This works in somewhat analogous ways to high-speed handling (NASCAR / F1 / Indy car/ etc.) of adding aerodynamic downforce... the more of that you have, the less difference mechanical grip makes. Who cares about fine-tuning effects on the order of 50 lb from optimizing left front tire grip, when you have 2000 extra lbs of aero downforce. Forced induction works similarly: intake port size IN PARTICULAR loses much of its significance, whereas exhaust port size ends up becoming The Bottleneck.
Sounds to me like in an overall sort of way, you need to develop a better understanding of what makes engines work, and where their limits are, and how to better evaluate the various effects involved.
OTOH...
The cars used mainly for car shows. I never ran it down the track though I wanted to just never got around to trailering it to the track.
makes it sound to me like you just need to go the junkyard and pick up some old 305, or maybe buy the phone company van motor from GM (the "260 HP" POS) if you don't feel like getting too dirty in the process, and become best buddies with somebody that owns a chrome-plating business, and another with an aluminum-polishing one; and FORGET all this crap about "what heads" and all that. Just jam a 6-71 blower on it, maybe acoupla turbos (why not 3? just chrome em, doesn't even matter if they're plumbed to either the intake or the exhaust, as long as they're BIG and SHINY), a fogger kit, and a hood with a BIG hole in the middle. As long as it runs enough to pull itself onto the trailer, almost, that is as long as you can put like a small inconspicuous boat trailer winch on there to "help" it, what difference does it make about "heads".
Sorry, unlike LG4Bird, I felt like candy-coating the truth a bit.
If you are going to use a forced induction setup you need a forged crank, do you have forged or cast steel? The compression ratios for forced and natural are very different also. Any decent NA street cam will want at least 10:1 where as forced may only want 8:1 So you could use either the same pistons and change heads when you get around to putting a blower on it or use the same heads and change pistons. It really sounds like you are in over your head, I would second a version of what Sofa is saying. Purchase a new short block and just add all the chrome or polish aluminum parts to it. You'll never be drag racing it as a hobby and you'll probably make 300 horsepower to the wheels (as long as you use decent parts) which is enough to have fun driving it.
If you are going to use a forced induction setup you need a forged crank, do you have forged or cast steel? The compression ratios for forced and natural are very different also. Any decent NA street cam will want at least 10:1 where as forced may only want 8:1 So you could use either the same pistons and change heads when you get around to putting a blower on it or use the same heads and change pistons. It really sounds like you are in over your head, I would second a version of what Sofa is saying. Purchase a new short block and just add all the chrome or polish aluminum parts to it. You'll never be drag racing it as a hobby and you'll probably make 300 horsepower to the wheels (as long as you use decent parts) which is enough to have fun driving it.
It is an eagle forged crank and dished pistons. Thanks for the replies.
It is an eagle forged crank and dished pistons. Thanks for the replies.
If they are dished it sounds like you'll be building a forced induction motor. You'll be driving a low compression engine that won't make much power until you get the supercharger on. Using one cam before the supercharger and one when you have it will help some.
If they are dished it sounds like you'll be building a forced induction motor. You'll be driving a low compression engine that won't make much power until you get the supercharger on. Using one cam before the supercharger and one when you have it will help some.
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"while maintaining velocity". Nice. I am torn between AFR 195's and AFR 210's in my 383 build as well, possible nitrous. It will be the last major purchase. Keep us updated!
"while maintaining velocity". Nice. I am torn between AFR 195's and AFR 210's in my 383 build as well, possible nitrous. It will be the last major purchase. Keep us updated!
It's a no brainer for any healthy 383 - go with the 210's
Well, UltRoad, I guess you should tell us: Are you building a "healthy" 383 which would want 210 heads? or a lower rpm, small cam, tight TC, highway geared 383 that would want 190 heads?
FWIW, I run 200cc heads on a 350 CID motor in a 3800 lb car. It has more low end than street tires could ever handle, 60's in the low 1.4x's. I sure wouldn't want anything less on a 383!
Well, UltRoad, I guess you should tell us: Are you building a "healthy" 383 which would want 210 heads? or a lower rpm, small cam, tight TC, highway geared 383 that would want 190 heads?
FWIW, I run 200cc heads on a 350 CID motor in a 3800 lb car. It has more low end than street tires could ever handle, 60's in the low 1.4x's. I sure wouldn't want anything less on a 383!
Numerous 383 articles using 195 heads making good numbers along with members on here making good 1/4 mile times, their results beg to differ with you . AFR, Tony Momo, Trick Flow and Howards Cams even say you can go either way depending on what the engine will be used for. Maybe years ago you needed 210s to get decent flow but not today's heads.
Ended up going a little smaller on the cam. .604/.602 and a set of procomp heads. It's running strong. I don't think I am going to put any supercharger on yet since it's running good without it.
Keep us updated on how you like solid rollers for street. I'm on the fence about those right now for my build, but they're looking better all the time.
So far I like it, but it's not a daily driver so I can't speak for daily street driven. Cam I got from http://www.herbertcams.com I really enjoyed being able to call these guys up and tell them my set up and have them give me some recommendations on what would work for me. They also have .900 base circle I needed for the stroker. If you decide to go solid I would include them in the search for a cam.
Sounds nasty, love the solid rollers. Use premium valvetrain equiptment and they will last just fine. Not as long as a HR but who puts even 30k on a toy? Usually sell them or get bored and do something different anyways long before then
Just dont buy cheap lifters, pushrods, etc.
OP what carb and jetting did you wind up with, curious
So far I like it, but it's not a daily driver so I can't speak for daily street driven. Cam I got from http://www.herbertcams.com I really enjoyed being able to call these guys up and tell them my set up and have them give me some recommendations on what would work for me. They also have .900 base circle I needed for the stroker. If you decide to go solid I would include them in the search for a cam.
You used the wrong rods if you needed to go to a .900 base circle, Roller lifters hate reduced base circle cams, This build was not planned out very well.
Yup. I ran a standard base circle that seemed to measure around 1" base with eagle h beams. .376/.383 lobe lift.
Then ran another around same base measurement, .352" lobe, with callies compstar h beam. Then ran a .400" lobe lift on same callies rods. I dont think it was a small lobe. Being big lobe lift, it likely measured in the .990's range just a guess.
Yup. I ran a standard base circle that seemed to measure around 1" base with eagle h beams. .376/.383 lobe lift.
Then ran another around same base measurement, .352" lobe, with callies compstar h beam. Then ran a .400" lobe lift on same callies rods. I dont think it was a small lobe. Being big lobe lift, it likely measured in the .990's range just a guess.
3.750 stroke and Callies Compstar or Ultra rods and BBC cam journal .060 plus clearance.
With this build I would go with a better block or at least splayed center caps and sonic test is a must. Hope he spent money on plate honing or to much blowby will burn right down the side of the pistons,
Last edited by HINKSON AUTO; 07-24-2017 at 09:33 PM.
They are 6" rods and as far as the lifters they are crane lifters with the spring-loaded horizontal guide bar setup. The lifters don't don't even touch the base circle till they see lift.
As far as this not being well planned out build as you say I did the best I could with it being my first 383. It's running strong so far. If I did do something wrong time will tell and lesson learned. Thanks for the input though.
Yes, the lifter is held off of the camshaft by the spring on the horizontal bar until lift.
That horizontal bar lifts it off the cam so you can change cam without taking intake off.
Thats only when the rocker arms are not tightened down. The valvespring most definitely keeps lifter on the lobe at all times else you'd have wiped cam lobes and lifter damage in no time at all
Thats only when the rocker arms are not tightened down. The valvespring most definitely keeps lifter on the lobe at all times else you'd have wiped cam lobes and lifter damage in no time at all
I thought the same. That's why I went back and forth with crane (see email screen shots).
02-24-2016, 07:44 PM
