Tech / General Engine Is your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: CARiD

People who've had false knock..

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Oct 12, 2018 | 08:17 PM
  #1  
ULTM8Z's Avatar
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,623
Likes: 309
People who've had false knock..

Wanted to see who's had it and what it turned out to be.

Valve train noise?
Exhaust leak?
Sensor installed too tight?
Incorrect sensor?
Other?

This isn't for my car, I'm working with someone who has knock, but the data is inconclusive on whether it's false or real (I'm getting conflicting indications that it could be false or real) . Engine is an ANJF 90-92 style speed density TPI. Knock sensor has been replaced with an factory GM unit, correct p/n for the application. Spark timing has been verfied at the distributor and the spark advance part of the tune is factory. Engine is not running lean as the BLMs are doing pretty good.
Reply
Old Oct 13, 2018 | 02:39 PM
  #2  
Fast355's Avatar
Supreme Member
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,407
Likes: 492
From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Re: People who've had false knock..

The transmission geartrain in 2nd gear in the 4L65E in my Express van.

No knock retard in 1st gear, knock retard in 2nd gear, 3rd gear it was gone. Trans died a few thousand miles later. Swapped in a 4L85E and magically no more knock retard.

My spark map was the same as a GMPP HEI distributor used in the 330 HP 350 HO and ZZ4 at the time. I got fed up one day and tested WOT to 111 mph in 3rd gear at 4,500 rpm and it was knock free on the same timing value that was showing 6-8° retard in 2nd gear. The false knock was so bad it would put me in the low octane spark map.



Last edited by Fast355; Oct 13, 2018 at 02:54 PM.
Reply
Old Oct 13, 2018 | 04:51 PM
  #3  
Tuned Performance's Avatar
Sponsor
20 Year Member
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Community Favorite
iTrader: (94)
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 16,741
Likes: 994
From: Mile High Country !!!
Car: 1967 Camaro, 91 z28
Engine: Lb9
Transmission: M20
Axle/Gears: J65 pbr on stock posi 10bolt
Re: People who've had false knock..

Here is a thread where a guy put in a new icm to get rid of timing retard.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...retarding.html
Reply
Old Oct 13, 2018 | 10:26 PM
  #4  
jeffas000073's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 87
Likes: 1
From: Michigan
Car: 1991 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 4 speed 4L60/700R4
Re: People who've had false knock..

As the owner of a 91 TA 5.7 with spark knock (not sure whether it's real or not), why would a new ICM eliminate spark knock? I've had my ICM tested and it checks out fine. Also, the poster in the link stated he adjusted his timing to 9 deg BTDC....that should increase spark knock, not lessen it, right?

I'm at 6 deg BTDC and running 93 octane fuel....even added an octane boost to increase it more. BLM's are more on the rich side right now while we try to determine the source of the knock (or phantom knock). Tuner Pro still shows a lot of Knock Retard and a lot of pulled back timing resulting in really bad 1600-2000 RPM performance. Disabling the Knock Sensor from the ECM calibration makes the engine run great at all RPM's. Cannot figure this one out.
Reply
Old Oct 13, 2018 | 10:59 PM
  #5  
ULTM8Z's Avatar
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,623
Likes: 309
Re: People who've had false knock..

how common is it for the knock filter on the memcal to go bad?
Reply
Old Oct 13, 2018 | 11:18 PM
  #6  
jeffas000073's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 87
Likes: 1
From: Michigan
Car: 1991 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 4 speed 4L60/700R4
Re: People who've had false knock..

Does anyone have a MEMCAL that they’d be willing to let me borrow? If it proves out to fix my issue, I’ll buy it from you at a fair price. I just don’t want to throw more money at the car without results. FRUSTRATION!!!!!
Reply
Old Oct 14, 2018 | 09:29 AM
  #7  
RBob's Avatar
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 18,432
Likes: 233
From: Chasing Electrons
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Re: People who've had false knock..

Tire spin can produce false knock reports. Cracked accessory bracket or loose accessory bolt will do the same.

RBob.
Reply
Old Oct 14, 2018 | 10:57 AM
  #8  
Tuned Performance's Avatar
Sponsor
20 Year Member
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Community Favorite
iTrader: (94)
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 16,741
Likes: 994
From: Mile High Country !!!
Car: 1967 Camaro, 91 z28
Engine: Lb9
Transmission: M20
Axle/Gears: J65 pbr on stock posi 10bolt
Re: People who've had false knock..



I have only had one customer I sold a aujp to have a bad knock board. I don’t think it’s a very common thing.
I have a anjf for $150 shipped

Last edited by Tuned Performance; Oct 14, 2018 at 01:43 PM.
Reply
Old Oct 14, 2018 | 03:32 PM
  #9  
ULTM8Z's Avatar
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,623
Likes: 309
Re: People who've had false knock..

thanks Tuned. what is the actual failure mode of these things? is it visually detectable like a broken solder joint or something like that?
Reply
Old Oct 14, 2018 | 06:24 PM
  #10  
Tuned Performance's Avatar
Sponsor
20 Year Member
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Community Favorite
iTrader: (94)
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 16,741
Likes: 994
From: Mile High Country !!!
Car: 1967 Camaro, 91 z28
Engine: Lb9
Transmission: M20
Axle/Gears: J65 pbr on stock posi 10bolt
Re: People who've had false knock..

The only one I have seen just had false knock retard. I don’t know how to tell if one is bad or not. Maybe rbob has some insight.
Reply
Old Oct 20, 2018 | 10:13 PM
  #11  
jeffas000073's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 87
Likes: 1
From: Michigan
Car: 1991 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 4 speed 4L60/700R4
Re: People who've had false knock..

Any one know how to determine if a knock filter on the original MEMCAL is faulty?
Reply
Old Oct 20, 2018 | 10:15 PM
  #12  
Tuned Performance's Avatar
Sponsor
20 Year Member
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Community Favorite
iTrader: (94)
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 16,741
Likes: 994
From: Mile High Country !!!
Car: 1967 Camaro, 91 z28
Engine: Lb9
Transmission: M20
Axle/Gears: J65 pbr on stock posi 10bolt
Re: People who've had false knock..

Wish I knew the answer
Reply
Old Oct 20, 2018 | 10:19 PM
  #13  
jeffas000073's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 87
Likes: 1
From: Michigan
Car: 1991 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 4 speed 4L60/700R4
Re: People who've had false knock..

Is the filter in the MEMCAL or the ECM? All I know for sure at this point is the knock counts are crazy high, but the actual knock is very minimal or non-existent.
Reply
Old Oct 20, 2018 | 10:23 PM
  #14  
Tuned Performance's Avatar
Sponsor
20 Year Member
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Community Favorite
iTrader: (94)
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 16,741
Likes: 994
From: Mile High Country !!!
Car: 1967 Camaro, 91 z28
Engine: Lb9
Transmission: M20
Axle/Gears: J65 pbr on stock posi 10bolt
Re: People who've had false knock..

It’s the white circuit board in the memcal.
Reply
Old Oct 21, 2018 | 05:54 PM
  #15  
jeffas000073's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 87
Likes: 1
From: Michigan
Car: 1991 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 4 speed 4L60/700R4
Re: People who've had false knock..

I removed the wire lead connected to Knock Sensor and did some more data logging. Tuner Pro showed zero knock counts, so would that mean my MEMCAL filter is okay? What exactly does the filter do????
Reply
Old Oct 21, 2018 | 06:33 PM
  #16  
jeffas000073's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 87
Likes: 1
From: Michigan
Car: 1991 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 4 speed 4L60/700R4
Re: People who've had false knock..

I have a question. The plugs that are installed on the car (1991 350 TPI) are NGK UR45GP (0.060 gap) when I believe they should be NGK UR4GP (0.040 gap). All of the specs are the same between the plugs minus the preset gap from what I can see online. I pulled a plug and it's gapped at 0.050-0.055. Would this gap be enough to cause a spark knock???????
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
devilfish
DIY PROM
2
Jun 1, 2005 12:54 AM
justme
DIY PROM
3
Nov 25, 2002 11:04 PM
WHITE87GTA
TPI
1
May 29, 2001 10:19 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:43 AM.