Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Well, I have warrantied yet another Ignition Control Module through AutoZone and I also discovered that O'Rielly's is claiming they have no record of me having a lifetime warranty through them.
I went on RockAuto and am tempted to buy a Delco or Delphi unit in hopes of getting off the warranty merry-go-round but I've heard from multiple members, articles and YouTube videos that most all older electronic parts come from the same factory and are just put in different brand boxes and sold at whatever price point that brand is at. Is that the consensus among members here as far as ignition control modules go and so I am better off sticking with a lifetime warranty module from a local parts store? Or do you guys think there still is a difference between the Wells brand (bottom of the barrel, AutoZone sells it and gives a lifetime warranty) and the AC Delco or Delphi? Looking on RockAuto, the features and benefits statements between brands sound very similar and to me gives credence to the modules coming from the same factory. I have searched this topic but most of the applicable threads were 10-15 years old and much has changed in that time.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

These guys sell modules (and whole distributors), and they are reputable with good reviews:

http://performancedistributors.com/

GD

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Edsiroc

iTrader: (2)

I bought a Delphi ICM from Rockauto about 2-3 years ago believing it was the second best to AC Delco. I thought it would be reliable as I was using my Iroc as a daily driver and about 6 months later I had to replace the Delphi with the old one my car had. Luckily this happened while the car was parked at home. What I did recently is bought the BWD from Oreilly(also junk) but took a picture of my receipt for the warranty for the same reason that later on they "can't find it on their system." I have heard the local stores sometimes change the part numbers just to void the warranty but if you have a copy of your receipt no excuses there.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I have an MSD 8207 blaster coil. Does this make a difference as to which part number I should use? I see AC Delco has three part numbers for the same module. . I've also had a module go bad that was an "msd" brand ignition control module and looks identical to everything else according to pictures.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I know nothing about them, I'll give them a call and see if they can tell me who makes the module or how it would last longer than a standard or Delphi module. Thanks.

EDIT: Just spoke with them and they wouldn't say who manufacturers their modules. They only went as far as to say that they were built and programmed to their own stipulations. I asked if the hardware or build quality was better and he could only say it was built to OE specs. So not to put them down but it's possible that it's a reprogrammed wells or standard module. I'm also worried that this increased dwell time could adversely affect it's life span.

Aviator857

I've had a Duralast (Autozone) module for over a decade and the first 4 years it was on the car it was my daily driver probably put 60k miles on it (engine since swapped to LS1)... I'm not going to claim its the best but to have gone through the number you have says something is killing them.

Are you using the thermal transfer grease between it and the base of the distributor? If not the heat they create will kill them. Also too much/little resistance in the diagram posted above can do it. Also too low system voltage/bad ground. A leaky EGR or exhaust can heat up the area also. A wandering spark from something insulated or cracked in the distributor could be zapping it also.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I've had a variety of different efi systems, oem, modified oem, MegaSquirt 1/2/3 and I have multiple grounds on the block, both cylinder heads and transmission. The problem with bad icms always occurs every 1.5-5 years. I have a cowl hood and the engine has never seen north of 220* and usually sits at 200*. I was a manager for Autozone during and right after college so I know all about the quality of Wells modules. It was SO BAD that for a while it became policy in our region to test every module before it left the store. Plenty of members (myself included) have received them dead on arrival. I do not trust the reliability of Wells/autozone, I've only used them because of the lifetime warranty. I've used the thermal paste and it always dries out, with this latest module I've switched to dielectric grease. Fairly certain they are both just silicone based products anyway.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

No you need to use electronics grade thermal paste. Such as for processor heat sinks, etc. Like this:


Silicone grease is definitely not the same thing at all.

GD

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Not needed, if you look at the 3M online product literature 3m says theirs works as a heat transfer membrane between heatsinks.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

It's not as efficient as proper high quality purpose made heat sink compound. Anyone that has built PC's can attest to this.

GD

zed-028

100% agree

Also in response to the thread question, my accell ICM lasted longer than the genuine one. Moving away to another distributor for my carbd application has outlasted all of them put together.

no new tires

Ditto, Arctic Silver for me.

(PC) #TECHFORLIFE

Galaxie500XL

iTrader: (1)

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

The arctic silver is about half silicone and half alumina oxide. If you compare the msds of that and antisieze the only appreciable difference is anti sieze is petroleum based and that is silicone based. If there weren't any plastic around for the petroleum to Degrade then antisieze would work just as well. Makes me wonder about why not just mix some aluminum dust into the dielectric grease?

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Because you couldn't f*uck around with aluminium dust, random chemicals and untested concoctions for less than the $10 that proper, tested, high performance heat sink compound will cost you. You buy the right stuff, you do the job once the right way, and move on with better things in your life. Reinventing the wheel is a waste of time.

GD

zed-028

5 Stars - Would Read Again

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

We're not talking pharmaceuticals here. It's silicone and aluminum as the MSDS shows. Other compounds (the white stuff) use Zinc Oxide. Just a little searching reveals several people that have tested Arctic Silver 5 against Vaseline, toothpaste and Diaper rash cream and found that the the results were negligible. One of the frequently referenced pages that tested these various concoctions closed with this:

"If you think any particular grease is going to cause your CPU to run more than a few degrees Celsius cooler than any other grease, though, then assuming the grease is properly applied, you're dreaming.

If your PC's so marginal that a CPU running three or four degrees Celsius warmer will crash it [or, for modern CPUs, cause the processor to auto-throttle itself and substantially reduce system performance], the solution is not to try to edge away from the precipice with better thermal compound. It's to make a big change to the cooling system, or just lower the darn clock speed.

Such a computer will crash when the room ambient temperature rises a lousy four degrees. It will crash when its intake fan filter gets clogged with dust. If it has no intake filter, it'll slowly fill its innards with dust instead. That may not crash things outright, but it can, if a dust blanket insulates some other component and causes it to overheat. And, furthermore, if you know your computer will crash at CPU temperature probe reading X°C, then allow me to assure you that running the CPU at temperature probe reading X-4°C is notlikely to give you a rock-solid stable machine at the best of times.

Is fancy thermal goop as good as the manufacturers would like you to believe, and as various Junior Overclockers do believe? Nope.

Is it, therefore, a complete waste of money? Absolutely not.

Just be aware that it's not magic, and don't expect the most expensive stuff to work very much better than generic grease."

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

Matching the ICM brand to the Coil brand is the best advice I ever received on this topic. AC Delco Coil? buy the AC Delco ICM. MSD? buy the MSD. etc.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Again - for $10 why would you bother to not use the pre-made highest quality product you can get?

GD

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I hadn't heard that but I ran an MSD 8207 with an MSD distributor that had their Ignition Control Module inside. Lasted a few years but I probably only drove 3,000 miles on it. I wasn't impressed. I'm going to buy either an AC Delco or the Dyna Mod control module but I'm on the fence since I have no idea who makes the Dyna Mod ICM. Dyna Mod representative said that their module covers all (3?) part numbers of the AC Delco.

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I'm not saying that MSD or anything is better than the AC Delco, I was just saying consistency makes a difference.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

The question I would have for them would be can you give me the correct ICM offsets to put into the ECM. Deriving them yourself, while possible, isn't exactly fun and exciting.

GD

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I can post a question like that on the MegaSquirt forums, those guys love oddball hardware parameter question like that.

I came across another thread on thermal compound. Some of the guys were remarking that they reapplied thermal compound (yes, your Arctic Silver 5) every year because it was drying out. One of the other pages referenced how the thermal conductivity drops once the paste hardens. I know every time I've removed an ICM the thermal paste came off like paint chips. Maybe the best practice would also be to reapply the thermal paste to the underside of the ICM every year. It's only a 10 minute chore anyway.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Probably a good idea. It gets baked. If you really want to go apeshit on it - install a temp probe directly on the unit and monitor the temp with a process controller.

GD

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I ended up buying a new ICM from Orielly's that was made by Standard, LX340. Not to stir the pot but it came with plain old silicone grease. I also did a warranty swap on the AutoZone module. They were slightly different physically so they it would seem that they were not manufactured at the same facility. With the AutoZone module the engine had a horrible random misfire. I changed it out to the O'Rielly's Standard brand ICM and the engine wouldn't even start! It was dead out of the box. I cranked on it several times over several minutes. I rechecked every single connection and traced all the plug wires. Nothing. Thought it was a bad ignition coil so I swapped one out and it still wouldn't fire. I put the AutoZone module back in and it fired back up, misfiring, but it started and ran. The quality of ICM carried at the parts stores is pathetic. I guess I'll try my luck with the AC Delco D1984A. Is that module what anyone recommends?

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

ACDelco is no guarantee of quality. Not anymore. Here's a read on the modules topic. And I saw at least one more vote for Davis Unified in there. As I have said they are highly regarded. Just call them and do what they say. And apparently ground your distributor body also.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...odules.446159/

GD

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Thanks for posting that!
The sentiment those members expressed is what I've been feeling for a while. I guess I'll go to the parts store again and have them test a new one before I leave. Unfortunately without the ability to thoroughly heat soak the module It could still be bad as soon as it warms up. The distributor is grounded and the module is grounded also, I checked them for ground last night. I guess it could just be that it's not getting a good ground. I'm going to search to see if it's feasible to use a locked out old style MSD distributor and run it's magnetic pickup wire (it uses the same magnetic pickup as the electronic distributors) to a firewall mounted ignition control module. That could really cut down on the heat if that turns out to be the issue with these cheap ICMs.

I'm still very wary of buying the DUI ICM because I have no idea who manufactures it. I also don't need to pay extra for this added dwell when I can adjust the dwell time and scheme through MegaSquirt.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Who cares who the manufacturer of the module actually is? Support a US based company making quality products available to you - and who answers the phone with a real english speaking person. If they are having modules made to their specifications they are only able to do this because of the relatively large volume of them they are having made for the community. The only possible reason to know who the actual manufacturer is, is to cut them out as a middleman and that's just ridiculous - especially for something this cheap. Stop supporting the chain stores and their import Chinese garbage and do our economy a favor. You have already spent inordinate amounts of time and money monkeying around with garbage that probably cost those stores less than the change in your pocket and is worth less than the lint under it.

GD

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Just following up. My problem with the Davis unified is that I have no clue who makes them. Could be a factory over in China, could be a Wells unit with one different resistor. It's a gamble and I am interested in longevity, not marketing hype and they make no statement of the durability just a note on increased dwell time.

So in the two months that I've been dealing with this issue I've had one Borg Warner dead on arrival, one master force die within 10 miles and one Wells that develops a misfire as soon as its up to temp. I actually found and bought two NOS AC Delco ICMs and it's been running fine for about 3 weeks and 30 miles. I also was able to go back to orielly and Autozone and pay the difference to upgrade my my wells and Borg Warner modules to Delcos.

While I'm enjoying driving the car again I've decided to just be done with the distributor based ignition and all its short comings and switch to wasted spark with individual LS style coils. In the next few months I should be selling two complete distributor based ignitions, one stock parts and one fully MSD.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

I think you are lacking some fundamental understanding of modern manufacturing. Manufacturers are geared up to supply an entire range of quality depending on the price you are willing to pay. Oil filters are an excellent example of this - Fram is the bottom of the barrel and this is widely know - but did you know that the Rank Group owns both Fram as well as Champion Labs - makers of filters such as Amsoil and Royal Purple - both considered among the elite of oil filters on the market. The rest of the universe is the same - manufactures supply any level of quality you want to buy if you are buying a large enough quantity. They will build the product to suit. One can infer from the many positive recommendations and their high level of specialization that Davis Unified either does this or knows where to get a high quality unit that is manufactured for limited distribution. Just like I have parts manufactured to my specifications and branded with my shop logo. No one else can buy them because I have an exclusive distribution contract.

GD

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

First you argue that I'm not using the best heat transfer compound. Next your arguing because I am not supporting an American business then your arguing that I don't know enough about manufacturing. Now, as far as Davis' manufacturing and quality nobody knows what the case is and nobody will know. You don't know if these are the same build quality as AC Delco or Wells. I called them and they wouldn't /couldn't tell me anything. At that point I had already spent over $100 on ICMs and I wasn't willing to take what I saw as a $50 gamble. I decided that if I'm going to pay $50-60 I want one with more of a track record. This has nothing to do with supporting an American business over some other business or my knowledge of manufacturing.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

The DU distributors are recommended by many in/around the hot rod forums. Even Sofa has recommended them right here on this forum. So the quality seems to be fine. Also they are US based and stand behind their product. I don't see what the gamble is? You have tried a whole bunch of what we ALL know to be garbage modules from chain stores and now you have cold feet with regards to all of them. I would say that your experience of multiple failures is one of mostly your own making and not listening to the wisdom of the crowd here and elsewhere that likely told you not to buy that garbage. I run a very busy repair and performance shop and guess what? I don't buy that kind of part from a chain store. Ever. My reputation is on the line, not just an inconvenient towing bill when I fail to get home from the Taco Bell drive through.

GD