I’m trying to plan a build for a 350 that will take the place of my tired little 305. The car will only be driven on the weekends. It won’t be taken to the strip.

I want something that’s streetable, but has got some pull to it. This will be my first build ever and I want it to last a while.

350-400hp will be perfect for me. I just need some head suggestions. I have a few I’ve been looking at, but I can’t choose.

- Trick Flow Super 23 195cc
- AFR 180cc or 195cc
- Edelbrock E-Street 185cc

AFR’s seems like a favorite, but I just wanted to see what would be best with my application.

- Kyler

 

TFS or Afr will generally fit the bill. Love the 195’s but 180 can work for that power

 

Would the 195’s be too much? And would I be able to achieve 500hp with the 180’s?

I want a little bit of room for some future proofing once I have the $$$$

 

500 on the 180’s would be possible but need alot of cam and some compression. 195’s make it much easier.

afr has a fast port speed and do well on street cars. They arent too big at all. Tfs 195’s are similar but not quite as good out the box imo. I have tuned cars with all 3 and they all work and run well in 350’s.

Typical LT4 hotcam sized cam with a good intake and any of those heads is easy 400 hp recipe that can drive anywhere like stock

you going carb? Efi?

 

Carb most definitely. Lookin at some 600cfm’s

 

Yeah a 195 and a good dual plane, probably 650-750 cfm and a mild 218-224 deg cam if hyd roller and it will fly and be very drivable

strongly recommend goin hyd roller, either L98 block or a retrofit for longevity

when you are used to that build, put on a ported dual plane or even small single plane, 230’s deg cam and rev it out for 500+ hp

 

Is the hydraulic roller cam that much more worth it tho? From a reliability and performance stand point?

 

Most definitely.

 

Thank you my man. I appreciate the help!

 

Orr's recipe is tried and true. That said, the 500 HP target might mean a lot of RPM for a 350 to get there. And all of the supporting parts to keep it from self destructing. Don't get me wrong, its possible and there's more than one example here to prove it. But it'll take a better compliment of hard parts to keep it reliable.
On the flip side, 350-400 HP is easier to achieve with average components. I had a 180cc headed 350 that was a reasonable performer all around. 224 degree roller cam, RPM Air Gap intake and a 670 cfm vacuum secondary carb. Excellent highway mileage and low 12s/109 mph in the 1/4. Used it as a daily in the summer months. But as I was saying, I stepped up my game with a bigger cam (236 @ .050") and have suffered from a few part failures while pushing 7000 RPM.

 

Would this cam be alright with the AFR 195's?
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...23-8/overview/

I want some lope, but I still want it to idle pretty well. I don't have the greatest idea about what specs I should be looking for.
It's another part of this build that I'm stumped on.

 

That's the cam I used in the first build I mentioned above. Although you'll leave something on the table performance-wise when combined with the 195's ( I used mine with the 170cc Vortecs and then again with a modified version of the Vortecs at around 180cc) it'll give you what you said you were after. It has a nice idle quality in that there's obviously a performance cam working in your 350 but it is also very driveable, has good idle vacuum and can knock down some decent fuel economy if the timing and air/fuel ratios are right. I doubt you would be disappointed. This is not to say that there are not equal or even better choices out there but the XR276HR is a solid choice. Easily in your 350-400 HP window.

 

I am running the older style AFR 190's that have been ported and milled to 60cc. The cam is a comp xr282 Hr on a stock bore l98 350.
With the heads milled and a .028 head gasket, The compression is around 10.3-1. The intake is a Edelbrock RPM airgap which is a great street manifold.
Combined with a Holley 750 Street HP carb and LT headers, it is a strong street motor to be a stock bore/pistons.
With a TH350 trans and a 3500 converter and 3.73 gears, my car ran a best of 12.01 at 112.45 in 1/4 and 7.64 in the 1/8 at my local track.

You cant go wrong with the AFR heads and the RPM airgap for the street.

 

What would be something a little bit better than the 276HR?

I'm also a bit confused on this rpm range spec. Is a DD better with idle-whatever or from say 1600-5400?

 

Define better.
A longer duration cam may mean more power but that also equals more RPM. FWIW, 1600-5400 is basically idle RPM to 5400 (as is the case with the XR276. Except for when you're at a stop light, you'll never really be below 1600.

And that brings up a very important point. Your compression ratio has to be matched to the cam profile. Larger cams need more compression and vice-versa. You'll need to work out the possible CR values and work that into the cam selection process.
Here's a link to a technical paper on how the two are related. You may find it interesting.

http://cochise.uia.net/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html

 

Good article and not too hard to understand.

 

You could get into a custom grind if you wanted something different. Tighter lobe center maybe more aggressive lobe type. May be worth 10-15 hp but for what you need to do it isn’t necessary. Mid 300’s whp has been made with the cc503 cam which is the 276hr basically but the lt1 version. With good heads like afr 195’s

 

I had great results w/ AFR 195s milled to 58cc chambers.

 

I'm back. I've been doing a little bit of research. I've been looking at Brodix IK180's. The AFR's are a little bit out of my budget (i'm 17). I've been reading 195's might be a little too much for a street 350 and 180's would create more low end power. Does that sound about right? I want more low end power since this will be on the street 100% of the time.

 

afr 180 and that 276 cam would be ideal. The ik is cheaper but isnt near the same quality piece. Its not bad though

 

How much power am I looking at with AFR and 276?

Would the 282h be too much for my application? (somewhat lopey idle, but streetable)

 

I love my Trickflows, I have dynoed a few engines with these heads and they aways make strong power.

 

The 276 makes peak HP in or around 5600. At that RPM I'd say the difference between a 180 head and a 195 head wouldn't be earth shattering. But give the 195 more air with a bigger cam, then it's a different story. The 276 max output would fall on the lower side of 400.

The 276 idled well at 800 RPM, made 12-14" vacuum, Lope was minimal but still there.
The XR288HR idled at 875 with 9" vacuum. That was in a very tired shortblock. Lope is obvious. I tend to use a lot of idle ignition timing and have managed to get this larger cam to behave. It also drives well on the street.
Between the two, the 276 I'd shift at 6000-6300. The 288 raised my shifts to 6500+. Interestingly, performance was roughly the same although I think the state of engine with the larger cam wasn't giving a fair representation of the the potential there. Both engines had a 180cc (+/-) head.
I would imagine the HR282 would be somewhere in the middle.

If you want a clearer idea of the difference between the IK180 and the AFR195, look for flow results. Preferably from one testing facility. For low engine speed torque production, look at the flow values at lifts below.400". What the heads flows at.100" has a significant impact on the low end power that's been talked about. The AFR has a reputation for a "cake and eat it" head. Despite the larger runners, there doesn't appear to be a great deal of low lift flow sacrifice, I haven't seen the two flow sheets side by side but it would be interesting to see. I'd check out Stan Weiss' website and look for results there.

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm

 

I’m gonna build a 383 when I have the money. Right now the 350 is a good fit. I’ve never driven a car above 300 hp, so I think this will be a starting point.

Would the AFR195 and 282 work well in a 383 or is that pretty mild? I know the 383 is still a 350 with a longer stroke, but I don’t know how these parts would react different with more cubes...

 

If the plan is to build a 383 eventually, go for the 195's now. While you build a small headed 383 (as I'll being doing when the next shortblock is ready), there are other benefits other than outright power the 195 can offer to the 383 as well. Streetability being one of them.
The 383/195/282 combination I'm sure has been built many times.
FWIW, seeing as you're starting out (at 17), if you can afford the 195's, get them. Then it's only one set heads for both. By comparison, camshafts are cheap.
In the same vein, seeing as you're just getting into this , the 350 with AFRs and the 276 will give you what you said you were looking for in the first place and also give you some relief from the carb and ignition tuning aspect. The 276 is more forgiving in that regard. And it's been said many times, when you have the choice between two cams, pick the smaller one.

 

Brodix

AFR

 

Exactly what I needed. Thank you.

I can swap cams if I need to. The AFR’s and that cam should be pretty nice to start with. I didn’t wanna have to buy 2 sets of heads for the same block.

Thank y’all

 

eh wouldnt call it mild but wouldnt call it crazy hot imo. Def a nice street combo. Hotter would be higher 230’s to low 240’s duration, and or tighter lsa with more lift.

I loved my 383 with 195’s and custom cam that was 230/245 on a 109 and .600” lift. Sprayed a small shot on it too. Lopey as hell but drove fantastic.

 

Do you have the advertised numbers for that?
I've been busy working on a cam spec for the small headed 383 I'm planning. Overlap is a target value that I'm working with as I'm familiar with how 70 degrees (of overlap) plays out as compared to say 76 degrees. I'm working on the premise that the LCA dictates how successfully the engine makes torque and the overlap selected determines where in the RPM range peak torque will occur. All my calculations are at .006" valve lift (advertised) so I work with that.
With the advertised duration I can reverse engineer and determine what the overlap is based on the LCA selected (109 in this case). My 383 spec has zeroed in on a super tight 106 LSA.

 

286/306
.603/.613 with 1.6

 

News from SEMA,

AFR is going to release a cheaper street head line. SBC & LS heads around 1K for the set (assembled / as cast).

 

Sign of the times

 

Everyone wants cheaper but my set of 195’s in 2008 were 1280 bucks to my door. Not sure how inflation makes that what they are today with the same parts...but they are high these days. 1600-1700 is outrageous

 

Perfect. Thank you

 

That's really going to hurt their competition. The fast-as-cast technology today is actually amazing.