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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
I think opening a new thread makes it easier for people to find information in the future and is more meaningful in terms of thread title.
I was lately finding coolant droplets and stains on the engine block beneath the passenger side cylinder head. I was worried it was a leaking head gasket so I did a pressure test (30 psi) and saw drops coming out from the throttle body hoses. I decided to eliminate the coolant via the throttle body as here in Malta, temperatures never go down more than maximum 8 Celsius. I also decided to bypass the heater core due to the lack of really cold weather and most of all, to be able to remove the ugly vacuum valve and hoses running along the top cover.
When I was done, I did another pressure test just to find out that there is now a pinhole underneath the paint on one of the water-to-oil cooler hard lines. Although this could have been easily solved, most probably other areas of the same pipe would very soon start to puncture again so again I removed also the water-to-oil cooler anyway its not the most effective device on earth. While I was at it,I also changed the water pump to a new Stewart cast iron Stage 1 high volume pump as I was also seeing the rear gasket a bit moist and I had bought this a while ago already.
Now the engine bay is extremely clean and has less clutter. Will post pics soon... BUT something in my mind is telling me that I should looking into a proper oil cooler considering the high temperatures we have here in Malta especially during summer, the fact its a transam (i.e without any front grills) and the fact that GM engineers thought of putting in the water-to-oil cooler.
So I found a British brand called MOCAL who have SBC sandwich plates (SP16 http://www.mocal.co.uk/products-octakeoffs.html). They also have ones with thermostat but I don't see a point of that due to the size of the radiator I intend to put and again the temperatures we have here.
My question is related to the effectiveness of this air to oil cooling system. I can quite practically place the oil cooler radiator in the opening of the front air dam but the oil cooler size would be the 10 Row with a 235mm matrix (see http://www.mocal.co.uk/products-oilcoolers.html).
Its not huge but it is the only one which I can fit without radical modifications to the front. See picture of a mock up:
Mockup of Oil cooler placement
I measured the length of the lines that I would need and they would be circa 2 metres each way (4 metres in total). Hoses are normally 1/2" or 5/8".
Can I have your views on the potential effectiveness of such system considering the size of the rad, the placement and the length of the lines?
Oil temps are going to likely track coolant temps plus a bit - generally they aren't going to exceed 300 F on a hot track day even without a cooler - which isn't an issue if you run a high quality synthetic like Amsoil. We run a lot of high HP engines and we don't really bother with oil coolers. My 86 Trans Am doesn't have one (don't believe it ever did), and my 91 Formula has had it's cooler deleted. The 86 has Amsoil Premium Protection 10w40 that hasn't been changed for over 10,000 miles and its still just fine.
Keeping the trans temp down is much more important if you have an automatic. I use the available area in front of the condenser for a trans cooler.
Unless you are running garbage non synthetic oil - you don't need any form of engine oil cooler.
GD
Last edited by GeneralDisorder; 03-22-2020 at 10:57 AM.
I mounted my oil cooler underhood in the LH area where the charcoal canister normally sits with a fan mounted-greatly simplifies and shortens the plumbing run(and flow restriction) from the oil filter adaptor,works great and very effectiveDon't want to over cool the oil either,i like to run it at ~230-240*. The 4th gen cars do not use an oil cooler,but a lot of recent high performance cars do.
I would assume that if I out it instead of the charcoal canister the line length will either be the same or longer than a 2m run. My canister is on the passenger side maybe yours was on the driver side?
I have a dedicated transmission cooler (the radiator tank inlet and outlet are capped)
I have also have a extra capacity transmission pan with cooling fins and temperature gauge.
The best place to mount the cooler is in front of the radiator (or A/C condenser) so you can get air flow from the front air dam drawn thru it by the cooling fan(s).
This location also helps cool the fluid when you are not moving since the fan is pulling air thru it.
I wouldn’t like to disassemble the nose to get a radiator in front of the AC condenser and still as I need it for engine oil not transmission oil cooling, assuming that size of radiator that I am asking about is adequate, that location will still avail from cooling fan suction.
All you need to disassemble is the filler panel between the nose and the core support. that will give plenty of room to work from the top side OR you can lay on your back or put the car on a lift and do it from below.
I have had this car apart MANY times so it's easy for me to say "that it is not a hard task" but I can't assume everyone has the same experience.
Personally I would not put a an oil cooler where you have it mocked up... that close to the pavement with the majority of the cross section facing towards the ground is asking for trouble if stuck by debris..
Well i am surely familiar with the inner workings of this car. I completely built it from the ground up (my build thread is on here) so I know what you are saying re. Removing the upper filler panel. Still this panel is not just a filler. It is also holding the nose in place and as i have all the gaps properly aligned i wouldn’t like to disturb. ThereWould also be the canopy to remove to reach from the top. I have a car lift so might be able to do it from the below.
You are right about debris. I honestly didn’t consider that aspect..
What about effectiveness with a cooler of the size I indicated. Do you guys think it would be enough? I mean it surely is better than nothing but wouldn’t like to go thought the hassle and expenses for nothing.
the cooler I used was made by BorgWarner in '82 it is "stacked plate"design ~11x8x1.5" and has 8" fan mounted.Cooler is protected in its underhood location.The hoses are ~1.5 m,-10 size as I recall.Filter adaptor came from same '82 Impala cop car as cooler and is standard GM one as installed on cop cars and certain light trucks. Very effective,but easy to control the fan to avoid overcooling the oil.
Again - with proper synthetic oil, it's a waste of time unless you are desert racing with it. Having the oil temp at 300 F is only a problem if your oil can't handle it.
I have two air to oil coolers for my transmission on the other hand. As well as a temp gauge. Trans temp needs to be kept down for longevity of the seals and the aluminum components. My trans temp rarely exceeds 200 F even in 100 F ambient conditions.
Again - with proper synthetic oil, it's a waste of time unless you are desert racing with it. Having the oil temp at 300 F is only a problem if your oil can't handle it.
I have two air to oil coolers for my transmission on the other hand. As well as a temp gauge. Trans temp needs to be kept down for longevity of the seals and the aluminum components. My trans temp rarely exceeds 200 F even in 100 F ambient conditions.
GD
See my post with picture. for me this is a must have for a drag racer launching with a trans brake to keep fluid temp under control
03-22-2020, 10:25 AM
it is "stacked plate"design ~11x8x1.5" and has 8" fan mounted.Cooler is protected in its underhood location.The hoses are ~1.5 m,-10 size as I recall.Filter adaptor came from same '82 Impala cop car as cooler and is standard GM one as installed on cop cars and certain light trucks. Very effective,but easy to control the fan to avoid overcooling the oil.