Hi,I have a rebuilt starter motor for a 1982 trans am with 305 and auto trans and was wondering if I would be compatible with a 1990 camaro rs with 305 and auto trans? The part numbers are different so I’m guessing no,andI didn’t want to pull my camaros starter since it’s still good just to find out. Anybody here know? Thanks

 

Yes.

Why are you asking this? Some background would help direct you correctly.

 

Thanks for the input. I was asking because I was organizing my garage today and came across a rebuilt starter I had bought for an 82 trans am I owned 30 some years ago. Its still in its box. I tried researching the number online to see if it would interchange with my 90 camaro and according to the auto parts sites it wasn’t compatible with my car so I figured I’d ask here. When I looked at the photos online and compared them they looked similar,so I wasn’t sure if maybe the number of teeth on the drive gear changed over the years or there was some sort of other technical difference as to why they show it not being compatible.

 

There was a difference between auto & stick starters at one time. Later on they abolished that and they were all the same. The stick starters will fit auto cars but not the reverse. The difference is very subtle; has to do with a sort of bulge on the nosepiece. Not sure why they ever thought having 2 different ones was ever a good idea, but w/e.

 

Long as they had the same flexplate/flywheel teeth. There are two I know of and I forget the exact count but one uses staggered bolt pattern and the other straight.

 

No.

That's important obviously, but not the only thing.

See post #4 above for the truth.

Incidentally, the 2 flywheel sizes are 12.8" with 153 teeth, and 14" with 168 teeth.

I would also note that there is a (somewhat rare) starter for the 14" flywheel that has a straight across bolt pattern. It uses a different bolt hole from the one for the 12.8" setup though; it was introduced in the early 70s, whereas the 12.8" appeared in the late 70s. No "features from the future".



This is a 400 block from about 73. The circled hole is not factory; I drilled it myself, to fit the T-5 starter in my 83. In the blocks that were equipped with the other hole, of which there aren't all that many, it was at the intersection of the 2 aqua colored lines.

 

Well I got several used starters that I pulled myself off of 305 & 350 sbc vehicles with auto trans, multiple of straight or staggered bolt patterns. I replaced several with mini-starters that will work with either size flexplate.

FYI both my C3 & C4 Corvettes with factory blocks have all three starter bolt holes, I know cause I used the straight pattern for my mini starters and so does my recent project truck buck but I know that block isn't original. In fact most aftermarket mini-starters I've seen and all that I've bought use the straight pattern, they just have two sets of holes for either size flexplate. For example I own atm 3 of these https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-9100

Here in the first video is a bolt, in that circled hole on a TBI block. I didn't get the casting number off the block but you can see in other parts of the video that it has the three bosses for a spider and isn't machined for a mechanical fuel pump so pretty sure it's TBI block. Vid starts at point showing starter holes


In this video you can see the straight pattern starters I have[warning it's long LOL]

 

Yup, blocks from about 77 or 78 up tend to have that inner hole along the BH flange; all blocks from maybe 80 or 81 got it. It didn't exist before 77 or so because that's when the 12.8" wheel was introduced.

We all know about the "dual pattern" mini-starters. They ONLY work on blocks with the inboard hole (the circled one in my photo) because a bolt that would go into the outboard inner hole (the intersection of the lines), no matter what the STARTER itself is or looks like, would have to go RIGHT DIRECTLY THROUGH THE MIDDLE of the starter drive if used with the smaller wheel, because the drive has to be about 5/8" closer to the crank (14" minus 12.8" is 1.2", divide by 2 is .6", which is sheet-of-paper close to 5/8"). That's also why there are no staggered-pattern starters, mini, stock, aftermarket, or otherwise, to fit the smaller wheel: the staggered BOLT won't work, because it's too far from the crank. It's not a question of the STARTER, it's solely a concern of the BOLT location. There was a store that used to sell bolts with an offset in the middle, along with drill bits for square holes and blinker fluid and other handy problem-solvers, but the owner retired some years ago and moved to Diagon Alley, so that's no longer an option.

For many years, the solution to The Starter Bolt Hole Problem, one of the otherwise insurmountable "quality control" (GM's 70s mantra: never let your quality get so high that it's out of control) issues in block manufacturing, specifically where the entire starter bolt hole pattern is drilled too far from the crank which makes the starter turn slow and make that horrible grinding noise you can hear from a quarter mile away and EAT ring gear teeth, was a certain starter part #, 4347. That starter appeared in "new" replacement catalogs in the early 70s sometime, when GM realized they had a problem but were too lazy to fix it for about 10 more years: the catalogs listed it for various amusing non-existent applications like 71 Checker Marathon with 396 and Powerglide, but of course you could use it on any motor that had the extra bolt hole in the early-model location. I have a 74 car with a 454 sitting in my driveway that had that problem SO BAD when I got it, that a 3510 (staggered pattern aluminum nosepiece Turbo 350 etc.) or 3560 (staggered pattern cast-iron nosepiece for Turbo 400 trucks and such) couldn't reliably start it, no matter what. I think that's why I got the car (Caprice convertible) so cheeeeep: it wouldn't start at the dealer lot without a boost, even with a new battery. It had a 3510 in it at the time. When I got it home I put a 3560 and a REALLY POWERFUL battery in it, and the starter nosepiece broke the first time I turned the key. The starter literally BROKE OFF and it fell DOWN TO THE GROUND. I put a 4347 on it, with the correct bolts (one long and one short), and that starter remains on it to this day, coming up on 40 years later. As time has gone by, most of the blocks that had that Problem the worst, have been scrapped, and therefore disappeared forever from the face of the Earth, fortunately. People get sick of motors that won't start and eventually even if it was drilled for 4-bolt main caps and had the "010 020" mark on it they realize it's a POS and they get rid of it.





But that's all irrelevant to the original question. STOCK starters for auto trans in these cars and no doubt many others, up until some time in the late 80s, had a sort of bulge or hump on the side of the nosepiece where it inserts into the BH, that was bigger than the similar hump on STOCK starters for T-5. Not sure about the one that came in these cars in 82 w/ Saggy or T-10 4-speed. That style of auto trans starter WILL NOT fit into a T-5 BH. But in those later years, they quit that stupidity, and dropped the "special" auto trans version, and made them all the T-5 shape, so then they'd fit ALL applications. As long as the OP's 82 starter isn't the old stoooopid auto-trans-only version, but instead happens to be the T-5 type that was "universal" in later years (no telling what you'd get ordering one at the parts counter), it will fit any 92 application. OTOH if his DOES happen to be that dumba$$ auto-only thing from the earlier years, it will only fit auto trans applications, but will fit all of those regardless of year.

Mini-starters, youtubes, bolt hole patterns, and whatnot, are all irrelevant to this matter.

 

You brought the bolt holes up and started posting examples, I just wanted to say that some starters are made to fit the smaller diameter flexplate and others fit the larger and long as both engines had the same size he is good. Who's to say if both were original.

To be honest I didn't read the multiple paragraphs from your last post, so not sure how a checker cab got brought into this.

 

No he is not necessarily "good".

Maybe you should try reading instead of writing.

Here's why whatever starter he has MIGHT NOT fit.

Note that I said MIGHT NOT, over and over again, and told what the problem is. Note also that I know what I'm talking about and don't argue things that I DON'T know what I'm talking about, unlike SOME people.

The Checker cab got brought up because it's related to a 2-bolt-inline starter that fits the 14" ring gear diameter. Different from the 2-bolt-inline starter that fits the 12.8" ring gear diameter.

 

I could say the same, I don't know what your deal is but have fun typing LOL

 

My deal is TELL THE TRUTH. GET IT RIGHT. Sorry.

 

I have found your truth-telling to be extremely helpful in in getting things right over the past few years...

 

I don't see how you proved me wrong, so from what I see your deal is personal, get a life!

 

What's with all the snowflakery? ...

 

Let's see:

You said it would fit as long as it had the same flywheel size. (although you referred to the tooth count, but that's OK, means the same thing) You were WRONG because if it's the early auto starter that only fits auto trans, it won't fit a T-5. This is well and widely known to many on this forum and has been discussed many times, up to and including somebody posting pics of the interference and where they ground metal off to make it fit anyway.

You said if it had a straight bolt pattern it would fit. You were WRONG because there's at least one starter (the 4347, listed as a replacement for oddballs like the Checker example) that WON'T fit because it's for a 14" wheel, not 12.8". The proof is that there is ONE ON MY CAR sitting in my driveway right this minute.

You're annoying. Go away.

 

Your an idiot I never said the both tooth counts were the same size/diameter. So one oddball rare starter is your excuse to call me wrong, again your an idiot. Your trying to hard and it's pathetic! Have fun being right all the time in your own lala land LOL

 

I'll bet that "idiot" knows how to spell basic words like " you're "...