Hey everyone I'm new, just thought my first post should be a kill story lol. My brother has a 91 Talon TSI(5sp), big 16g turbo(evo3), 3" DP, 3" Apex'i exhaust, and 3" intake with K&N filter. I have an 88 Iroc Z, 350TPI,700r4, Edelbrock headers, Flowmaster catback, Crane 1.6 RRs, B&M shift kit, 2500 stall. We raced on a street going onto the highway. He did the 5K launch and had me by about half a car up to 55. I launched at about 1500, spun a little (street tires). As soon as he put it into 3rd (55) I blew by him...and ended up beating him by about 1 1/2 - 2 car lengths up to about 105 when we slowed down.

 

He has a pretty fast car, I definately think it should be faster...it was like a second slower than stock when he bought it (bad turbo). I'm sure something else is still wrong with it, a TSI with those mods should be just as quick or quicker with the stock turbo I think. He was running at stock boost...9lbs on the stock boost gauge, but they are really only about 7 stock. Now he has a boost controller but needs larger injectors and fuel pump I think to turn the boost up. He said he could get away with 15lbs on pump gas when he races so I'm pretty sure it will be a different outcome lol.

 

Anyone have some input on this? I'm just curious if anybody has an idea about what could be wrong with the Talon.

 

good kill! his car is fast with those mods, but once agian, the 350 V8 rules buawahahahaha!

 

my friend has a 91 TSI and he ran a 13.5 on the quarter. deffinently some fast cars.

 

yah my gurl has an eclipse...if it has a big 16g turbo and all the other stuff that your saying it has on it. something must be wrong. does he have injectors and uprgraded BOV? Well you said he pulled you off the line so im guessing its an AWD right? He definetly should have pulled you harder on the top end because our camaros dont like it up there...couldnt tell you wat is wrong...you could go to www.dsmtuners.com that is where all the DSM gurus hang out. they could get that answered in a flash

 

all TSI's are turbo and AWD

 

Wrong. They made FWD TSis. I've seen about a dozen.

 

He has the stock injectors and doesnt have an upgraded BOV. I think the problem is that the 16G flows too much air for the stock injectors/fuel pump so he's not getting enough boost. I'm pretty sure this will all be resolved when he orders his new ones.

 

My car has run a best of 13.79@102 on Nitto DRs. If we race again I'll probably still have my street tires on...I know I'll lose but how much do you guys think he'll blow me out by? Keep in mind he'll likely be doubling his boost from the last race

 

My cousin has a 91 Talon TSI too. He blew his stock motor by running 15(maybe more) lbs of boost without upgrading the fuel system. Now he has the JDM Cyclone motor and a full exhaust with no cat. He has other mods but Im not too informed on the Import scene/their mods. I was in the car with him when he stayed at the back bumper of a newer C5 Vette. Whether the Vette was just toying with him or not we'll never know. Ill bet when your bro upgrades the fuel system parts he'll spool up faster and deff. be able to run more than 9lbs. You'll never know until you race him after his mods, anything is possible.

 

TSi just means its a turbocharged car, the equivelent to the Eclipse GS-T. The TSi AWD is the (obviously) AWD car, equivelent to the Eclipse GS-X. Both are quick cars stock and can be made quite fast cars fairly easily. Its just so hard to find them in good condition with low miles and at a decent prices

 

Got mine from the original owner with 66k miles on it for $3.5k Took a lot of looking and waiting though. The rest are trashed, beat on, or just plain high mileage.

Good kill. From what he has on the car he could make it a lot faster by upgrading the fuel pump and injectors. With more fuel he will be running what he is supposed to running power wise. Anyway a kill is a kill so right on DSMs can be pretty tough competition for very little green.

 

Yeah...your "help" smiley is right. Tell your brother to get onto dsmtuners and do some research. It is common for uninformed kids to get a big turbo right away without the supporting mods. All he needs is 550cc injectors or better and a walbro 255 fuel pump. Then a Apexi AFC will allow him to tune. The Evo 16g is an AWESOME turbo. With those mods, he'll easily be able to run about 18 psi or so which will be insanely fast. Also, he needs an aftermarket boost guage. The stock one is NOT ACCURATE. Ive got a 91 GSX along with my GTA and I must say that 1g DSM's that are awd and turbo are amazing cars. They respond so well to mods that it isnt even funny. These are just bolt on mods too mind you. I had my head up my *** like alot of other no-it-all V8 owners until I saw what a turbo could do. I finally drove one and understood what they're all about. From what Ive seen most DSM owners arent into the stickers and wings etc. They are just like us and care only about mods. So to anyone reading this...do me all a favor and check out dsmtuners and see how many fast cars there are. Believe me...it will open up your eyes a little bit I hope. These are not just one in a million cars. There are TONS of these cars easily in the 13's with hardly any mods at all because they are so cheap and easy to get there.

Lastly, just like our 3rd gens are the the best bang for buck to go fast, 1st gen DSMs are right there with em in performance to cost ratio. Yeah I dont like most imports either, but these ones deserve respect and most any turbo car.

Comments?

PS...Be careful for Eclipse GS's as well because while the NA GS's made under 100hp, they also made turbo GS's from 90-94. You would think they would say GS-T on the bumper like the 2nd gens do but they dont. Kinda makes for the sleeper effect I guess.

 

I've never heard of this. Chances are it was a GS-T with the "T" scratched off. That's what a lot of guys do. While the GS was only a 1.8L putting out 90HP or so, the GS 16V had the 4G63 (same motor as 4G63T, just NA) that put down 135HP or so.

These cars aren't Hondas either. The 4G63T from this era put out 195HP with 203ft-lbs of torque in a ~2800lb car (GS-T) or ~3100lb (GS-X).

 

He is on dsmtuners...his name is onlyneed4. The turbo was bad on the car when he bought it...and knowing that he would be upgrading it anyway he just decided to get it done with first. The big turbo was just to compensate for his old one...he knows he needs the supporting mods to open it up. Some guys on dsmtuners told him to go to the junkyard and get some 550cc injectors out of a Jeep 4.0...I think he should just get brand new ones so he doesn't have to worry about bad injectors.

I'm not sure the performance to cost ratio is the same...I got mine with all the mods in my sig, Nitto DRs, and street tires, 105k miles, fully capable of 13s if it hooks for $2900. I've seen most L98s with about 80-100k miles for like $2500-$3500. His Talon cost $4500 with about 85k miles, bad turbo, and all stock. This was about the same price, if not more than every DSM we could find in our area. I will say that they do have a much better bang for the buck capability. They remind me of 86-87 GNs, which I think are the best bang for the buck in mods...if you can afford the car cost.

 

Apparently I was wrong about the turbo'd GS's. I just saw one on ebay listed as a "GS-T" with some nice mods for a really good price in New York but the car only said "GS" on the back. Interesting to know...

 

Yes your welcome for the tip. I was amazed too and now look or LISTEN twice when I get beside a 1g that says GS. As for performance to dollar ratio, I got my 91 GSX for 3200. It has a good amount of mods done to it. I didnt take it to the track yet, but the previous owner said he easily pulled mid 13s on the car as well. If you go to a dealer, you're going to get ripped everytime buying a DSM. I'd say your brother got really ripped for that 4500 whether it was private or a dealer sale. If the turbo was already blown when he got the car, I'd say the previous owner did some damage. He probably ran 20 psi on an aftermarket turbo like the previous owner of my car did with only a few pump upgrade. :nono: Now that same car is sitting in my driveway with a blown piston. I wish I knew as much about dsms then as I do now. Anyway, I was just hoping to open up some people's eyes to the fact that alot of dsms are no slouch...not meaning you fiveseven but generally speaking. And to be quiet honest, and I know this is a bold statement, bolt ons will do alot more for a turbo dsm that they will for a 3rd gen. Now when our 3rd gens get into rebuilding the engine, that is another story. The 4G63 engines are just built awesome and are said to withstand 450 crank hp on the stock bottom end.

 

Yep, the first gen 4G63T was an amazing motor. Strong 6-bolt rods too. Bottom end can handle something like 400-450HP stock, yes. My cousin has his '97 (second gen) Talon TSi AWD running low 11's and is trying to break into the 10's this year. Saw his car at the track a few weeks ago for the first time in a long time and man is his engine bay clean. He takes more pride in a clean engine bay than most people on this site do. They really are nice cars, and what's better than dumping the clutch at 5500RPM on a car that revs to 8k?

I'll own one of those AWD babies some day.

 

90-early 92 were the stronger motors that came with the 6-bolt flywheel and bigger rods. Also got bigger turbos and better flowing heads. Early 1992 cars are the most desireable being that they have both the strong 6-bolt motors and the strong 4-bolt rear end.

 

True to most of that but I believe you are wrong about the turbos. 90-94 were 13g and 14b. The autos came with 13g turbo which gave them 180hp. The manuals came with the 14b giving them 195hp. It wasnt until 95 when they came out with the 2nd gens that they all had the T-25 turbo. The T-25 was a small upgrade over the 13g but many will say the 14b wins out in the battle of the stock turbos.

 

You are correct I wasn't really thinking about the auto cars since what is the fun of an AWD turbocharged car without a stick shift The auto cars also got different cams which were ground for more low end. These auto cams are similar to the ones found in the 95 and up cars. They gave the smaller T-25 turbo to help with turbo lag and the cams for more low end to make the car more "streetable" Not only that but the late-92 and up got the 7-bolt block with the smaller rods. The 7-bolt engine has problems with crank walk but did come with higher compression and a much better exhaust manifold. From 95 on they just had smaller turbos, small rods, weaker bottom end, less flowing heads, low-end cams, but had the strong 4-bolt rear.

 

yah 14b's are pretty good lil turbo's a lot of people are running them on their 2g's and running like 12.9's....the guy w/his talon, right now you should beat him, even him turning up the boost, but is he gets 550 injectors, and a walrbro 255 fuel pump....watch out man. as long as he has the supporting air mods like downpipe, high flow cat, and exhaust, oh and he needs to get a 1g BOV...the stock BOV wont be able to hold that must boost and it will leak....if he does all that im sure he will be somewhere around the 300whp mark...i just bought a greddy frount mount intercooler, 2.5" downpipe, straight pipe, and HKS carbon-ti exhaust, w/a greddy type S BOV...hopefully w/this i should be high 13's maxxing out the stock turbo...next will be the 18g and the fuel....good luck man....just take everything out of your car possibe. back seats. floor mats, spare tire, jack...every lil bit helps...then next i would definetly do some suspsension mods, LCA, springs/shoks, panhard rod, etc...then eventually get something liek the HSR...w/all these and him w/allthat you guy "should" be pretty close, he might beat you out a lil but now you'll have more top end

 

just had to say this, TSI AWD are not very reliable cars, but can be super fast. When my camaro was takin by the state of MN, I bought a TSI AWD, put about 1000 in to it, and it would kill camaros all day, well some camaros. As you all can see being the fact that Iam still at this site, Camaros do rule all. Its nice to see people know so much about DSM's.

 

DSMs are like thirdgens, they are high maintenance. You really have to make sure you are changing the oil, changing hoses, belts, etc on a timely matter with a DSM or you will be running into issues If taken care of well and not always beat on they can be quite reliable. Same goes with my TA. It requires a lot of maintenace. I am first to admit neither the DSM nor the TA were reliable as my Toyota pick-up, but they are a whole bunch more fun to drive

 

A Whole Bunch Of Fun To Drive!!