I am not sure I would say reliable with these cheap *** rear ends and transmissions GM gave us

 

I agree, GM really threw a lot of nonsense into these cars just to sell them as fast as they could. The 3.27 nine bolts are pretty stout though, as I have seen them hold up for years behind 500+HP LC2's in '89 TTA's. IMO, once we're over 400-RWHP it is definitely time to start considering better transmissions and rearends, but then again it doesn't take that much horsepower to run a low twelve second pass though...

 

i guess you are the exception then, not many people have the know how to diy. like i can put it all together, but ive never ported anything myself or tuned a fuel injection set up.

i agree about the trans and rear though, i will have enough money saved by the end of the month, to have my tci trans and im really concerned about how it will hold up against a transbrake. i have this bad feeling its going to explode the first time and ill be picking up the pinion off the ground

 

I am not an exception, I learned just like everybody else, and I am still here helping new members learn the same thing I did so that they can build themselves a very well oriented vehicle for themselves. This is why I hung around this website and never left, to give what I have learned right back to new members. Porting sounds complicated, but it is very easy once you get the hang of it, and once you understand the areas to target. Fuel injection does the same thing a carburetor with an electric choke does; cold start, warm up, idle, part throttle and wide open throttle. You can just dial it in a great deal better than a carburetor. It requires some reading, but you can learn how to tune fuel injection just like everybody else, and be excellent at it...

Depending on your horsepower level, you will be fine. It isn't really horsepower that kills transmissions and rearends, well it is, but it isn't, it is actually the load from the vehicles weight in conjunction with the amount of horsepower that does the most damage. This is why if we intend on using stock parts, we need to substantially lighten the vehicle to help them survive...

 

i understand what your doing and have respect for you. i wouldnt even know where to start when it comes to efi tuning

i did some stuff using dsmlink but for the most part i know nothing. i would rather spend the 500 buck to have the car tuned professionally than tinker with it for 3 months to get it right. i just wouldnt want to spend that every time i changed a part, which i guess would be why people would want to learn.

i am also looking to use the hp efi on a future build. mostly because its self tuning and works with forced induction

and thanks, ,i was really concerned about it holding up, its basically stock weight just a/c and heat removed. somewhere around 375 to 400 at the flywheel would be a conservative estimate

 

Indeed your trap speed is more consistent than an ET but I can't justify that being "racing". A drag race is a mix between car and driver talent. Plenty of times on Friday nights you can watch a slower car beat a faster car cause it gets the jump off the staging light or hooks better; to me, this is what racing is all about. It levels the playing field out between people and gives the guy with less money into his car a chance at winning.
Not to mention trap speeds can be deceiving on vehicles with power adders.

 

With bracket racing, sure, ET definitely comes into play and it becomes a whole other ball game, and I will take the win if I beat a faster car. But when we test and tune, I may beat a faster car because he fell asleep on the line, but if he traps 5+mph higher than me, consistently, although the slip says I won, I know that I really lost, as does he...

 

I still can't see eye to eye on this. If your time is faster than the other guys on the slip it has nothing to do with him falling asleep at the line. Your ET doesn't include your reaction time. I'm sure you are aware of that and I was just misinterpreting what you meant.

I've raced a bunch of cars that trap 104-105 and run low-mid 14s. My car traps 100 on the dot and runs mid-high 13s. I would say without a doubt my car covers a quarter mile faster than the guy next to me. I don't care if he wastes a second spinning at the line, his car isn't faster. Suspension and traction play a role in a race car just like power and weight do.

I'd go as far as to say I'd consider my car faster even if the guy next to me spent 10 seconds spinning and trapped 150 MPH and was reeling me in at a ridiculously fast rate.

 

You don't see eye to eye with me because you don't understand what I am saying. A lower ET does not mean I am faster, it means that I am quicker. A higher trap speed means your faster. If my ET is lower than the guy I'm racing, but he traps higher than me, then he clearly fell asleep at the line during a heads up race against me, either that or he spun on his launch. Mathematically he would of had to of done one or the other, fell asleep or spun...

 

Let's put it this way, I would rather run a low twelve second pass while trapping 125-mph as opposed to running a mid eleven second pass while trapping 115-mph. In this case, the slower car would have one, but the faster car leaves knowing he has way more in it, despite losing. But hey, that is just me. I race trap speed because that tells me how fast my car really is, as well as how quick of an ET it should be running. I rarely bracket race anymore...

 

You don't have the faster car in that case...you are a better driver. The faster car will trap higher and thats all there is to it. If you have a good suspension setup and can pull a 1.5 60ft and run a low 12 at 112 mph or so, then you have a well setup car. But if someone runs a mid 12 at 130 mph, his car is much faster, but he just doesn't have the right setup for drag racing. If you ran into the same car on the highway, it would be lights out for you. I agree with streetlethal on this matter.

 

Still can't understand what you are trying to say. Your trap speed can be seriously effected by how your vehicle's setup.
Ever ran crappy street tires and trapped 4-5 MPH higher with a slower ET; then switched to drag radials lost a few MPH and had a faster ET? Just cause the car trapped higher doesn't mean it was necessarily faster.
Look at the turbo cars, haven't seen one have an ET anywhere near its trap speed. (Perfect example is the little hondas that trap 135 and run mid 11's). But nitrous cars usually generate a huge amount of torque and run a faster ET with a lower trap speed. In a 1/4 mile race (regardless of being heads up or bracket racing) I just can't call that being faster.

 

I agree with the Trap Speed bit. Any car that traps faster than my car is faster. Even if I beat them to the line with a better ET, all that means is that I am either a better driver, or have a better launch. Trap speed tells you which car is faster, not which driver is faster.

This is the same reason a good driver on a road course in a slower car is still faster than a bad driver in a fast car. The car is faster, but the driver was better.

 

i agree with you, i went to the import faceoff at national trails a couple weeks ago and the honda RACE cars rand mid 10s at over 150mph

perfect example my buddy has a 350z and took it to the first time to the track last night. ran a best time of 13.5 @ 110 with a 2.4 60 ft
he spun through a full 2 gears, like stated if he dead hooked it would drop the mph and pick up et

mph can be deceiving, so if you trap 5mph more than the other guy and still lost in the 1/4, do you feel you really won?

 

You guys are over thinking this. Turbo cars trap a higher mph because they get off the line like slugs and then the killer top end takes over once they get boost. Nitrous cars trap a lower mph but "ussually" better ET because they are all low end torque. Nitrous dies off as a car gets up in the RPM band, but hits like a ton of bricks down low. It's all in different setups. There are perfectly logical explanations to why cars trap and run what they run. In the end, if a turbo car traps 150 mph but a nitrous car traps 135 mph, the turbo car is faster because the nitrous car ran outta steam on the big end.

I love drag racing, but when you roll race a lot, it teaches you A LOT of things that you don't pick up from drag racing. Like what setups pull harder on the highway, what certain power adders do to an engine based on RPM and speed, etc.

 

Dead hooking drops mph? Think about what you just said. If he ran a 2.4 sixty foot, then ran a 2.0 sixty foot, the lower sixty foot would flash a faster mph at that particular sixty foot mark, so where is the drop? The rate of acceleration doesn't change, because even when spinning through the gears, the engine will eventually hook, and engine RPM picks up where it left off. If I wave my arm .4 seconds faster than yours covering the same distance, then my arm is moving faster than yours, is it not? If anything, spinning decreases mph because it would be like starting the run after the sixty foot, thus shortening the distance of the track, in turn recording a lower mph. Your mph is essentially set in stone, it is what it is, and the only way to change that is by increasing horsepower, or lightening the load. I can show you a 10.42 @ 126 run, followed by a 11.10 @ 124 run from the very same vehicle, second pass he spun and lost mph...

 

Turbo cars get off of the line like slugs lol? A turbo running a stalled auto w/transbrake will sixty foot as fast as you want it to...

 

the car is turbo, so by spinning, your rpms increase and help spool the turbo, and when you finally hook you are in your powerband. thats the way i think of it. i can see that in a n/a car being true but same goes for the hondas going 10s at 150plus

 

Think of it this way, how do you recover when you spin off the line? Do you keep the pedal floored, or do you ease off and wait for it to catch? It is the latter, we ease off, and when we ease off, we lose momentum. How does this gain mph...?

 

lol... you don't finally "hook", you need to ease off the throttle because turbo's will practically spin the tires the length of the track if you don't ease off the throttle, and when it does hook, then engine bogs down a little. Have you ever driven a turbo?

 

... load builds boost, not tire spin. You can't spool the turbo by free revving the engine, which is essentially what tire spinning does. Turbo's needs a load behind it, otherwise no boost to put to good use.

 

nope never driven a turbo car

but anyways, on an awd car i didnt have to let off to hook, being awd it would always grab(on the street)

i guess we all are going to go back and forth but a couple of the people above have picked up et and lost trap speed by dead hooking

id imagine there is a big difference between half a second of spinning and spinning through every gear down the track

 

manual cars can build boost with "no load" off the line using something like "antilag"

 

I get your point...I should have been more specific and said stick turbo cars. All the turbo guys around me have sticks and they all run kind of crappy 60 ft's. You need the right setup for launching a turbo stick car like a launch controller and some sticky tires. Most of the guys here just don't care enough about drag racing to setup thier turbo cars like that.

 

A lot of guys do keep their foot in the floor the entire length of the track. So yes, I can see a faster MPH with a slower ET being reasonable with most people.


Never going to agree on this so let's all just get back on topic lol

 

I agree. I have an 87 305 5 speed IROC and I am loving it.

 

people also need to be patient when looking for stuff to play with, i bought my '92 with 115xxx for 1000 bucks, just needed new tires. recently picked up a Pontiac 400 for 1900 bucks (fully rebuilt; heads, hardend valve seats, ALL new or refurbished parts. just needs a Carb, and distributor...im looking at about another 400-500 bucks MAYBE. id say thats fairly cheap

The only thing thats costing me alot is a WANT a stick shift...but i COULD go pick up a TH-400 for 200 bucks around here, and i could rebuild it myself for under 150 bucks, i think that kills the age old "imports are cheaper" argument. plus, a good ol V8 is jusst alot more reliable than a four banger..last longer

 

IMO, go with a TH-400, and save your money to fuel inject the Pontiac 400...

 

My car is already set up for a stick, plus, i cant stand automatic XD unless its a daily driver.....and i dont have 4k for aa EFI kit for it

 

Four grand? Umm, Megasquirt costs less than $500...

 

Imports are way cheaper than domestic. Just look at your imports chevy, dodge, hyundai and kia. The compare prices to your domestics toyota and honda.

 

since when did chevy an dodge become an import ? an when did toyota an honda become a domestic ? WTF !!!

 

Sense the day GM shut down their plants to move overseas and toyota hired the former GM workers and decided to make their cars local.

You can call it domestic because the parent company is here but I care more about employing american workers. Its cool if you want to support the American CEOs that have their stuff made in china such as government china motors but I am not going to worry about the billionaires. We should have never given a bail out to a company that refuses to keep things local.


Pay attention to you vin to see if your car is made in America. But I would rather have a Honda made in Ohio vs a chevy made outside the USA. I want a car assembled by Americans with american parts.

Did you know that toyota is the most american made car? It has the most parts that come from america and assembled in america. Different form a standard GM with less than 65% american parts or a ford with around 55%

Do you know the top two american made cars in terms of assembly and american made parts?

Toyota Camry and Honda Accord

 

do you realize theres no such thing as a pure breed american were all mutts . don't trash up a car forum with your own personal beliefs an opinions on who makes what an who's who . stick with the normally accepted domestic an imports . WTF !

 

THATS LIKE SAYING ALL NASCARS ARE FORDS CUZ THEY RUN FORD REARENDS ! DUMBASS !

 

do you realize theres no such thing as a pure breed american were all mutts .
Has nothing to do with the topic we are talking about manufacturing not breeding.



don't trash up a car forum with your own personal beliefs an opinions on who makes what an who's who .
So do as I say not as I do?

stick with the normally accepted domestic an imports . WTF !
So don't think and follow the sheep? You sure your american?

Its cool if you are ok with moving **** overseas and removing manufacturing from out nation I don't care just keep your head buried in the sand.

 

7/16" the distance you need to move your finger so you don't look like an idiot.

 

I'M AS ******* SOUTHERN AMERICAN AS THEY COME ! but the facts are you twisted what people think of as domestic an import to fit your own political views . i was just doing the same to show you what you was doing is ****ed up an doesn't relate to the topic . now if you jus want to argue i can doi that . i can debet politics or natinality but not here .get real this thread is old an boring an needs to be locked just because of asshats like you being ignorant . i'm done with you find a new toy an go ahead an sell your camaro an buy a doimistic honda cuzz you are a ****ed up ***** at heart an you make me sick !

 

You say you can debate but you are not. You are insulting me and also failing to show any form of intelligence through spelling, punctuation or grammar.

I have 4 Hondas 3 made in Japan and one made in the USA, 1 Pontiac made in Canada and a Toyota made in Kentucky.

I made a point using an out of the norm convention and instead of intelligently arguing the point you just insulted I thought one of the key points of America as open discussion. I guess at least according to you I am wrong and because my ideas differ from yours I must sell my possession and leave the board.

You are impressively closed minded. I am sorry I make you sick I have no control over your ideals about freedom of speech and free thinking being a bad idea, but at the end of the day it does not matter your only defense tactics are insults and poor spelling. Of course I would probably do the same if I did not have a solid chance of making a decent well thought out case.

Also what does being southern have to do with being American? Are you working off the standard stereotype of southern ignorance? Or just perpetuating it? I really don't know but I am guessing of the two of us I am the one who does not want GM to become China motors.

 

Oh my gosh I just realized why you are so mad, you thought I was being literal and not using a hyperbole to make a statement.

I am really sorry I did not mean Honda is a literal domestic brand, no not at all. I hope now that I have explained it you will understand.

 

thats like a TBI setup isnt it? i was thinking about an Edlebrock TPI kit thats four grand.......

 

It is w/e you want it to be but they do sell a 4bbl throttle body. You could also get an ezefi kit for about 2000

 

ill stick to a carb for now....i do eventually want some form of injection...i wanna make it look like it rolled out of the factory with that engine...but hey, i cant beat a 600 cfm carb for 25 bucks here

 

I would never spend that much money on a fuel injection system. Get your hands on a Megasquirt for under $500.00, then hit up the junkyard and nab the rest (sensors, injectors, etc.). Only thing you will need to pay attention to is the intake manifold and elbow/plenum, either buy a manifold with injector bungs, or tig weld them in yourself (or have someone do it for you), and either make your own elbow/plenum or purchase one. Here is a Buick 455 w/homemade fuel injection. It cost him next to nothing to put together, believe me...

finalinstall003a.jpg?t=1327176215

 

oh yeah, id never spend that much on it either, thats just the only one i knew of...im still new to/and learning about injection so although electrical isnt so hard, i actually enjoy it

 

silly me i always thought the winner was the one that crossed the finish line first...but then i have never drag raced really.

 

That would only count in a point to point judged race. What if there were no finish line? Fastest car wins then.

 

sounds like someone is mad because they drive a mexican made car.

 

I would not worry about him as he can barely form a sentence, he is just another closed minded belligerent person.

 

an you all are a bunch of trolls not worth the time it takes to tell you to **** off !!!!