Do I stand a chance? What do I need to do to beat him? (on motor)

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1985 Camaro SC - 2.8L, auto.

http://www.xenodrgn.f2s.com/Frontright.jpg

 

not raggin on the v6 but even if you can get your 2.8 to make up for the 2.2 liter horsepower difference, the dismal torque of the 5.0 will still kill you. if you wann try, these mods will help:
Performance cam (saw one in summit the other day) get the craziest you can get
headers (pretty sure they exist)
a free flowing exhaust
gears
porting and polishing your heads
underdrive pulleys would help a bit
a 2000 rpm+ stall converter
a shift kit
a performance distributer/ a mega voltage coil
performance spark plugs
8mm or bigger plug wires
msd and gapping your plugs wider
get a K & N
do the free mods
lighten your car up a lot (spare tire, bulky stereo equipment, rear seatbelts/seats, jack, tools)

anyone else with ideas, i did all the 2.8 bashing this post needs, helpful comments only.


[This message has been edited by unknown_host (edited September 20, 2001).]

 

come to think of it has anybody ever modded the heck outta a 2.8 or 3.1 liter v6? i think itd be kinda cool just to see what you could get out of it. anyone ?

 

I owned an 86 SC 2.8 years ago. I don't even think a 100HP of NOS would help that death crawl 2.8 beat a 305. -sorry.



[This message has been edited by whiteroc (edited September 20, 2001).]

 

No chance..Lg4s LO3s as well

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1988 Sport Coupe 305 TBI
K&N
Flowmaster 80


Daily driver:
1988 K1500 5.7 4x4 shortbed flowmaster cat-back gutted cat.
AOL: RyanNH84

 

lol i love how quick the 305 tbi guys are to make fun of a v6 driver. i personally dont like the 2.8 liter v6, but i think i would rather have a 2.8 or 3.1 than a 305tbi. both are slow as hell but at least the v6 gets decent gas mileage lol.
1988 L03: 150 HP
1985 2.8MPI: 135 HP
if he has a chance at anybody, it is the LO3's. I personally am a fan of Lg4's due to the carb factor, and i think you are right on that but cumon, you have 15 more horsepower than him lol. you have more torque, but with mods he could easily beat most semi stock LO3's

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but the LO3's have 170HP and 245TQ during all years of production. And in case you're wondering I drive an LB9 TA.

 

You're close, it's actually 255 foot/lbs of torque.
unknown_host: If you think that a V6 is as fast as a 305tbi, than you need to check your math. How much torque does a V6 have?

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No guts, no glory.

 

Engine specs for 1988:
1988 S 6-173 (2.8L) MPI 135 @ 5100 165 @ 3500 3.500x3.480 8.9:1 55

E 8-305 (5.0L) TBI 150 @ 4000 240 @ 2400 3.73x3.480 9.3:1 55

F 8-305 (5.0L) TPI 190 @ 4800 240 @ 3200 3.736x3.480 9.5:1 55

8 8-350 (5.7L) TPI 230 @ 4000 300 @ 3200 4.000x3.480 9.5:1 55
Nope it wasnt til later that TBI's jumped to 170 hp. i guess i didnt word myself right, with the mods above, he could probably take a 150 hp 240 ft lb torque LO3 TBI. if you dont believe me check http://www.3gc.net/specs/enginespecs.shtml
i am more just dissin on him cuz he is makin fun of a guy who asked an honest question, like his 15 more horsepower makes him so much better than the guy who owns the v6.

 

We are talking about a 1988 305TBI, with 150 horsepower and 240 foot lbs of torque. TBI's didnt jump to 170 and 255 til 1990, check the link above if you dont believe me.

 

Dude, you and that stupid site are both wrong. The L03 TBI car has always been 170 horsepower and 255 ft-lbs of torque.

If you don't believe me....check out this site. https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/techdb.shtml

Plus I still have brochures and magazines from 88-89 promoting the "170 horsepower" 305 TBI.

That site should probably read up on more info before they post wrong crap.

-ws6formula-

 

I love how ppl are always saying something about the LO3..personal I would rather have my 170hp and 255torque then a v6 camaro.

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1988 Sport Coupe 305 TBI
K&N
Flowmaster 80


Daily driver:
1988 K1500 5.7 4x4 shortbed flowmaster cat-back gutted cat.
AOL: RyanNH84

 

and I wasn't making fun of him..I know my car is slow. and I'm sorry Xenodrgn if it came off that way

 

he pulled that "wrong crap" from the chilton's camaro guide.

 

and i would trust 3gc before i would trust thirdgen.org the webmaster just double checked it and its right. this sites quality has been going down hill since i have joined early this year, it is updated like every 4 months nowadays.

 

I would prefer the 70 ft. lbs. more that the 305 TBI gives. But I'm stuck with my little 6 right now, but I don't drive it so it dosn't matter right now.

My site is right though, atleast according to Chilton. I'll try and get my scanner working (can't find drivers for it that work with ME) to show you.

 

all the sites and all the people I've talk to say 170hp and 255torque

 

well they are wrong. all the sites probably just grabbed it from each other in their unoriginality. dont you find it odd that in every model of engine setup (tpi, mpi, carb, tbi if you believe us) that as the years progressed, the engines grew in horsepower and torque? from 88 to 92, the 350 tpi increased by 15 horsepower, 305 tpi's grew 15-40 horsepower depending on the model, and yet you still remain that the tbi is and always has been 170? never took a increased in horsepower for 5 years? cumon, i think you are lying to yourself now...

 

I just wanted to point out unkown that the LB9 305 TPI 5 speeds camaro with 220 HP (due to a larger came) instead of that dismal 190.

 

well this just seems like a pissing contest..maybe we could get ws6formula89
to post some of those brochures

 

Unfortunately, I am at Ball State right now, so I don't have my magazines. Plus, I don't have a scanner that works at the moment. I've seen 150 horsepower 3400 lb cars, they run high 17s @ low mph; L03 cars are in the high 15 second, low 16 second range depending on the car, weight and traction.

I personally ran a 15.7 stock in my L03. My car pulled MUCH harder than a 23,000 mile LG4 Firebird.

Post this at the TBI board, and you will know the real truth...CHILTON MANUALS are wrong.

Leave us TBI people alone, I'm so sick of people ragging on us. High 15s are fast enough, plus get VERY EXCELLENT gas mileage to boot.

Also, I just went into my friend's shop and he showed me L03 Truck and Passenger dyno slips. 150 horsepower at the wheels for a manual car. I also looked on his diagnostic computer, and it said the L03s were 170 horsepower and 255 ft-lbs. That info was from GM themselves! GM tests their cars at full operating temperature, with all accessories, and still came out with an average of 170 horsepower.

I am not going to believe one site and one manual that says it has 150 horsepower. Not at all.

-ws6formula-

 

Oh yeah, my Haynes manual says the 88-89 were 170 horsepower and 255 ft-lbs of torque. Time to fix the scanner!

-ws6formula-

 

Here is a brochure from a magazine I found for the Formula in the school library, then I scanned it in the computer lab , it states that the standard option was the 170 horsepower 5.0 liter. In which I have circled in red. In this JPEG clip.


Also, here again in this same advertisment, it states 170 horsepower and 255 ft-lbs of torque.


-ws6formula-

 

chris, get your scanner working... are we sure we are all using rwhp or just at the flywheel?

 

oh, and my friend's 1984 lg4 z28 runs high 15's with massive mileage on it, all he did was upgrade his ignition.

 

Shut your face, unknown_host. You just had your BS shoved up your a$$ by a Pontiac ad, and you want to debate about whether that horsepower came from the flywheel or the rear wheels.
But, anyways, I think you were in the process of arguing about how a weaker V6 is hands-down a better engine. Don't let logic distrupt your rant, continue on.

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No guts, no glory.

 

L03s get great highway milage. My friend with a 5 speed gets 30MPG all the time. Street milage isn't that great with all the stoping and going though.

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-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, Milodon 160* thermo, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

To be installed eventually far far far into the future: Yours if the price is right and I don't have to ship :
Hooker 1-5/8" 50 state legal headers, Dynomax 3" I pipe (PN 44063 and 43248), Catco 3" cat, and injector spacer.

Super GRK_Taz World
F-Body Dual Exaust
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz

 

lol you really dont like lo3's do you unknown, they are slow but they are not that slow

 

Not like im disrespecting the V6 crowd, cause after all, a third gen is a third gen...long live the King. But, why not just search for a V8 initially? I have the 305 TPI V8 in my beast, and I love it to death. No V6 will ever come near me ('cept Grand Nationals, T-types, and Acura NSX's...)

My advice...sell the SC and get a V8 thirdgen..then you'll tear it up.

All ya gotta do is settle for nothing less..When I was looking for my car, I said nothing less than a V8 would please me...hence, I got a V8.

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305IrocZ28- Al
1990 Iroc-z 305 TPI auto, Flowmaster exhaust, 2 Rockford 10'' Punch woofers w/ 160a2 amp, 2.73 rear (1650 rpms @ 60mph)

 

lmao settle down slim its not like you are taking this personally (oh wait you are). i talked to some people on 3rdgen (another real site), 3gc's site is in rwhp (real horsepower imo) and all the others are at the flywheel. your cars put 150 horsepower to the ground on dynos at the wheels, and this is coming from a tbi'er. its not my fault for taking on the majority, after all, how much of this site is consumed by frickin TBI rs drivers nowadays? I am sick of you guys and your pitiful engines slammin' on the v6'ers around the boards, and I said something and i stand by what i said. what i said stands, why have a weak gas guzzler when you can have a weak gas saver. if i want good gas mileage i will drive an import. and this is in no way a slam on all tbi'ers, just the errogant ignorant ones. thanks for nothing, and if anyone wants to help the poor guy 20 some posts up on how to improve his v6, go for it.
later

 

all i know is i have a 85 sc and i had a 2.8 mpfi in it with a five speed and i dont knwo what kind of racing u r talkig about but my car just had a chip in it and i out ran a 76 camaro with a sb400 in it and he was doing 130 and i was only in 4th so the 2.8s in camaros are nice motors.




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83 z28 400sbc 85 v6 88 v6

 

I get way better gas mileage than most six bangers on the highway. It's the city mileage that kills me. I just got back from college, and I drove a total of 430 miles, and it only ate 1/2 tank of gas. That's pretty good. By the way, I put all of my stock components back on my car for gas efficiency.

-ws6formula-

[This message has been edited by ws6formula89 (edited September 24, 2001).]

 

I hate to even get pulled into this, but the L03 will always win in a race against a 2.8. BUT that may be the only race they may win. Dont get me wrong, Im not bashing here but almost ANY new car can run a 16.x and give a tbi a run for its money. But it still has a V8 sound and V8 feel that I would take over a V6 anyday. I understand what unknown is saying about saving gas and only being a little bit slower, but I would still drive the tbi.
As for the original post, If you want to go fast its not worth it to do anything to the engine that you have because it will still be slow. Save the money and run a stock L98. You can pick up engine/trans/computer pretty cheap at a junkyard and rebuild. The swap is a ***** but your car will be fast when you are done. In the end, Going fast isnt all that important, and your car doesnt have to be fast to be nice. A thirdgen is a nice, comfortabe, goodlooking car, regardless of how fast it is.
-'85

 

I liked the 2.8s, myself- all of them. There's a guy who has a 2.8 dualled out camaro and it is not slow. It's no rocket, but slow is way off. The most admirable feature of any 2.8 I've seen tho, is durability. He used to rawhide his camaro, I was rough on my corsica, and my uncle doesn't pay enuf attention to his 87 ciera. Good engine, at least when mpefi.

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1981 Oldsmobile Supreme Brougham... 403 V8, bored .030 over, Blue Racer Wolverine camshaft with hydraulic lifters, 700 Edelbrock carb, stock intake, K&N air filter, Bosch plugs and wires, dual exhaust...400 turbo...

1985 Ford LTD Crown Victoria 4dr...302 TBI V8, Bosch +4 plugs and wires, K&N air filter...AOD transmission...3.08 non posi

 

being a owner of a 88 SC 2.8, and a new owner of a 95 camaro 3.4, i must say that it is a very good engine ( both *60 V6). my first car, a 89 beretta witha 2.8 ran untill 255,000 miles on it. my new camaro has smoked quite a bit of TPI's. I would rather have a 3rd gen iroc or z28 anyday witha 5-speed tpi v8, but unfortunatley banks are jerks about giving loans for older cars. there was a guy on the v6 board named 91redbird(not sure if thats his name) running 13's with his 3.1 v6. its very possible to beat a TPI if your engine is in top running condition and has enough mods.

 

Before I got the GTA, I owned a 92 3.1 Firebird. The car was nowhere close to the GTA, but between me and my friend with the 305 tbi, I could hang for a little but he would pull away. You said that you wanted to compete on motor (I'm asuming alone)...ditch that idea. Here's what you need.

A FULL TUNE UP and then...
1. Modify one of those fiero superchargers (search the v6 board for it) and put it on
2. Some headers and full cat-back(I recommend dynomax-nice growl at idle and no rice sound at WOT or during acceleration)
3. Go ahead and upgrade the ignition to MSD
4. Cam from Crane
5. All the suspension parts you can get to improve traction during launches
6. A shift kit if they make it (if you've got a stick you're better off already)
7. Weight reduction (take out everything except the gauges, the pedals, the shifter, and the driver's seat)

That's all I can think of right now. For the money you'll spend you'd be better off doing what I did though...finding the 3rdgen of your dreams with all the power you need. Have fun though if you're going to fix up a v6. And as always, happy thirdgening (no matter engine size)