Ok... I dropped my car off to the body shop this evening and the guy that is going to install my SFC's took at a look at her (he is the owner as well). He will be installing them himself tomorrow morning.

I asked him if he could check to see if the chassis was bent while he had her up on the ramp and he said " Sure can, I will be able to tell you if the chassis is bent or not..not a problem". We chatted about this and that as he walked around my car..he was tapping her here and there and said " She is in good shape for an 87...but yer getting her painted right?" .. I said " yup in a couple of weeks..." .. he then asked me who was painting it for me and I told him who and how much. Now I know that the guy that is going to be doing my paint work used to work for him but then branched out on his own and is taking business from his shop...I am not sure what terms they left on but I could really care less. ... I am getting a great pain job done for $1200, buddy said he wouldn't paint my car for nothing less than $2500.00 , said some crap about removing the windshield, etc etc...

Anyway

I asked him about how long it would take for him to install these SFC's...he said " Well the last set that I installed on a 88 GTA took me 5 hours to do" ... 5 hours?!!?!??! Does this seem to long for this job? I know that they are weld-ins but 5 hours??????? I was thinking more like 1 hour/side.

 

5 hrs?
Thats way way way way way to long man. Im gettin mine done monday and they said 1 or 2 hrs max. Dont do it dogg its just not worth it.

 

If they're proper weld-ins and not the half-a$$ed variety- I could believ UP TO 5 hours (max)- move carpet, cut up rear floorpan both sides, put in connectors, re-weld floorpan/SFCs, possibly paint areas that were welded. I.e. not a 1-hour job at all.

This again, assumes these are full weld-ins and not the 1/2 bolt-in 1/2 weld-in variety which ride completely below the floorpan.

 

I got a set of Competition Engineering full weld-in type. The guy did say that there will be some cutting and welding and all of that good stuff, so I guess his 5 hour quote maybe right.

He also warned me... he said " You do know that once she goes on the ramp and I start at it you won't be able to remove these without some major work" I said " Yup I know that and I have no intentions of ever removing them, I my mind I am just adding something that the cheap bastards at GM should have added in the factory to begin with!"



I will let you guys know how it turns out... I can't wait to see how she feels on turns and stuff!

 

i got a set of comp. eng. full weld ins and they took under an hour each side. This guy is taking you for a trip. It's bogus go somewhere else. And you need a laser to check if your chassis is bent you can't go around tapping here and there.

With the Comp. Eng. connectors you don't have to remove carpets or cut floor pan or anything they're dead simple.

I would definately take your car somewhere else, by the sounds of it he'll just F*uck you over.

Dave
Cruz'N Bruz'R

 

Well it's too late to do anything about it now...she is in the garage on the ramp....maybe it won't take him 5 hours but that is what he said....

Oh well...as it's too late to do anything about it now all I hope is that he does a REALLY good job...I have seen his work before and I have to admit, he does really good, detailed work... but how perfect does a set of SFC's that can't be seen have to be???

I will let ya know what happens...

 

Mine took 2 hours tops to install. What brand are they? They should be welded to the frame rails, not to the floor, so there should be no need at all to remove carpet and stuff. If he needs 5 hours, I would question whether he knows what he's doing...or trying to cheat you outta of some coin.

 

I have a set of Competition Engineering SFC's....

 

did you get them on yet?

 

He was supposed to install them yesterday but things came "up" and he never did it....he said " Well it was Friday night, the wife's birthday, had some people over, couple of drinks...you get the picture"..

I will get them done either today or tomorrow.

 

this is Dave(Cruz'N Bruz'R) using Paul's computer cause he's still sleeping. 87RocZ my car was exactly like yours, blue and all, till i painted it. Wait till you get those in. I purchased 3 different sets of SFC's before I chose the Comp. Eng. weld ins and they make it feel like a whole new car. handle's better, launch's a hell of a lot better and it gets rid of any wobble's shakes and rattles the t-top car ever had before. Comp. Eng. are prob. the most expensive one's on the market but in my opinion you get what you pay for right, and they are definately worth the $400+.

dave

 

Hey Dave.... man the guy told me they were $212.00 plus tax. That is what he told me.

And I made sure he ordered the right ones too.... I am going to have to go up there to his garage and camp out and watch the whole process!!!! hehehehe

 

Yeah, i don't know why they were so much, but they didn't take 5 hours to put in either

Your right you might have to baby sit this guy.
Oh and he has to lift the car a certain way to simulate natural stance before he welds them.

If he has a hole car lift where you drive it on and it lifts by the tires then good, if he doesn't then the car has to have lift points as close to the wheels as possible, and then we used a tranny jack to hoist up the rear end to bring it to a natural stance, this works great as well.

Dave

 

I am glad I know at least a small amount about all of this! These boards have been great for that...

The lift my car is on is a drive on lift so the jacking won't be an issue, she will be sitting on her wheels the whole time.

And Dave, guess our installs will turn to be the same cash wise. You got hosed on the cost of the SFC's, I am gonna get hosed on the labor!!! HAHAHHAHA

I am going up there now...I can't stand this waiting around! hehe...I need to poke my head under there and make him feel uncomfortable while he is doing the job!! hahaha.. ok maybe not, don't want him to throw me outta da garage!!

Once I get them on I will let you guys know how it turned out.

 

Ok... delays delays delays!! I went to the shop that had my car yesterday afternoon and was talking to the owner. He is actually a pretty cool guy to chat with, he is very knowledgable on all things Camaro/F-Body. He showed my my SFC's and it was the first time he took them out of the box. He said " Whooa hang on these won't take me 5 hours to install, these are different than the last set I installed". Mine are the Comp. Engineering C-3046 SFC's.

Apparently the last set he installed had angled pieces that welded to the tranny mount. Mine are actually a fairly simple design, basically a long piece of box steel with a flange on one end. This flange welds to the rear and the box piece welds along the floor pan. He said that it would only take him about 2 1/2 hours to do!! And they are getting done tonight! This is a little better than the original 5 hour quote he gave me first

 

Just curious .. Why does the car have to sitting on the wheels and support the weight when SFC's are welded in? If they would have been been part of the design on the GM production line ... dont you think they would have been welded in during the early stages of the assembly line?

 

The idea of having the car on all 4 wheels when they're welded in is actually a compromise.

Theoretically- you want the chassis all measured up and straight- and then weld in the connectors with no weight on the suspension. The car 'settles' over time (i.e. body sag) and once you've put in the SFCs totally straight- you will have any other frame alignment 'problems' become apparent rather quickly. However- this is going to involve an alignment rack and a few more $$$- and if you 'discover' other problems as a result- you could be in for one heck of a lot of work. Even if the connectors were installed at the factory- they would have to verify the alignment between the subframes and body before final weld-but would more than likely use a dedicated 'jig' for this purpose. One of the reasons that manufacturers go either unibody or full-frame- but not a half-a$$ed compromise between the two (added assembly time/fixtures).

If the car is tracking straight as-it-is, it is simpler to leave the weight on the wheels and put in the connectors- thereby not changing any frame/body alignment. While technically this is not the most 'correct' way of doing things- it is the best compromise on an older vehicle. If you were to lift the vehicle, but not on a proper rack and measure/adjust it, you will change the 'sag' or 'stretch' temporarily/artificially and once the connectors are welded in- you will have solidified the vehicle in perhaps a much worse 'shape' than how it sat on its own.

Basically, its an 'all or nothing' sort of idea.