16th owner

Sorry to do an EasyS, but I can't figure this out. Just totally P***ED.
Back in May at Sparta, the best I could get out of the car, was a 15.265 @ 89.69 mph, with a 2.17- 60ft. It should of been better back then.

Since May, I've added, headers, AFPR at 45psi, accel #24 injectors, MSD coil, all new plugs,cap,rotor,spark plug wires (again) and hogged out the plenium. Bumped the timing to 8 degrees and have had it on 2 different scanners. I'm told, there's nothing wrong with it.

Today at Sparta, it was greasy to say the least. All I could manage was a 2.279-60ft. That doesn't bother me, it's the 15.275 @92.96 mph. WTF is wrong with this car???
If I was talking about 1 or 2/10's, I won't worry about it, but it should be running mid 14's at least.
Grateful for any thought's or idea's. (I know, I know, put in a T5...
Would a customized chip make that bigga difference?

Slade1

Your mph increased a good 3+ mph from before, but it's off from a typical 350 in good shape. Your traction is low though, with a 2.1 you'd be almost breaking into 14.

As far as how your car should be running... all I can say is that's dependant on the condition really. Compression good? Valve train ok? A custom chip will be needed with a significantly different cam.

Then again, what did it run prior to all the stuff you've done to it?

I tried looking up your speed pro cam, but all I found were power ranges and durations, no talk on lift.

From how your engine sounded when you were running, it sounded like a sub-220 duration cam since it did sound like a very smooth idle.

From my guess it would be a power plus, or a power pro plus cam based on their descriptions. I have serious reservations about the amount of lift you're getting on that cam. The duration is no better than the stock L98 cam as is, but if the lift is worse than stock, you're definitly not making the power you should.

Oddly enough, if you had their econo pro model, you may be running less than even my peanut cam! That's a scary thought...

Considering you are making just slightly more mph than me (I'm running 91.48 mph trap speeds) and only edge me by <2 tenths (15.414) you may just as well have something worse than the peanut cam...

Z-drr-Guy

Is this Car have a Carb or ??

If it's a Carb .......take your air cleaner off ....i got a 1 sec diff in times .......but i think you got a TPI no ......??

Mark

Mark A Shields

That is just totally stupid. For one, there is a reason to running a filter, it filters out dirt particles in there air, that could make their way into the cylinders.


Besides is it really worth only 1/10th, just take a huge dump before you race and you'll get 1/10th off.

palric

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to hear about the times Martin you have a hot setup that is not working for some reason. You should be on Trigger's tail (14.2-14.4 ??)

Curious, are you actually getting the spark you think you are getting ? Old coils are notorious should be easy to find out. Also, can you test your FP while driving ? I wonder if you are actually getting 45psi at WOT ?

thx,
RP.

Daz

iTrader: (1)

how does the plugs look like?What RPM do you shift?I would put the timing back to stock if you have the stock chip..Do you let off the the gas when you feel youre losing traction??..BLM numbers?

Daz

16th owner

I'm still waiting on the cam specs. Kinda sucks. All along I thought it was a Comp cam, ( I knew the specs too ) but he put in a Speed pro, he said he thought it would work better. I'm not doubting him yet, he is good with this stuff. It should be in the 208-210/215-220 range, with 265-280 lift range.
I never drove the car before the new engine and trans went in. But everything in the engine is new, except crank and rods.
I did put a new coil on a couple months ago and just this week had it in to test things out. The guy said the output and dwell was good and everything checked out perfect.
I haven't done the F/P test at WOT. I may try that next Sunday. I know a guy with tester that can be run into the car.
Also yesterday, I found 90' Zedder in a wrecking yard. I may go back Monday and pull the ECM.
Thanks guys.

16th owner

Hey Daz. Don't let off the gas and haven't checked the plugs yet.
I'll do that tomorrow. I shift at 5000 out of 1st, but after that I might as well go auto, cuz 4500 seems to be it.
I'm starting to wonder if it's not a tranny problem. Don't really know why, just a feeling. I may put in a lock up switch, see what does.

Slade1

If the cam's gross lift is only b/w 0.265 to 0.280, with a 1.5 rocker arm, you're still only making 0.420 max lift at 0.280.

That is worse than the L98 stock cam.

88-89 207/213 0.415/0.430 117 Separation
90-92 202/207 0.413/0.428 114.5 Separation

Considering you have a 355 and a whole better air flow setup than me, you should be pulling much better trap speeds than me if you had even the peanut cam... 50 cu more after all...

I'm thinking you have the econo cam... even the peanut cam likes shifts at 5000 rpm...

Gearing b/w us is not that far apart, 3.27 for you 3.23 for me. You should have a significant mph gap between us due to a 350 alone...

Do you remember what was your torque peak rpm and hp peak rpm was at from dyno day?

Daz

iTrader: (1)

OMG I could use the PROM,ECM harness plugs and even ECM..maybe you can snag the MAP sensor while youre at it..Then I could buy your old one..PROM and wiring is more important though

Its hard to tell if you dont know what your cam is..Same result would happen if its too big(mismatch)cam makes power up high but the intake chokes it..Need more info on the combo..You should be running high 14's with that trap speed though..What kind of heads do you have?

BTW dont listen to Slade j/k

Daz

Slade1

Daz runs a 13.7 with nothing running right... wonder what he'd run if he got everything running the way he wanted...

Daz

iTrader: (1)

lol Nobody can ever get their car running how they wanted..lol..

Daz

16th owner

I messed up. It should read 465 to 480 lift.
Thing I can't figure is, why alot guys are running much better with stock PROM's and smilar setup's.
I've been trying to get this worked out since May. You may be able to have this stuff Daz, when I go carb.

Z-drr-Guy

Listen ya little F%$K ......what ya callling me a lier ....... First of all I know it's not good for the engine .........

2nd ....... Unless you were at Cayuga .....you would'nt know now would you.........when i ran my car i with no air-cleaner there was a 1 SECOND DIFFERENCE ...........NOT 1/10ths OF A DIFFERENCE .
OK.......or do i have to spell it out for ya ......now because your not up the street ....i'm not gonna get excited about you calling me stupid ........BUT ya might wanna watch what ya say .

Mark A Shields

YOU SIR ARE A MORON.


1 second from no air cleaner. 1 second is the equivalent of like 100 hp.

I'd say the difference between your 2 runs was due to other factors.

no hard feelings I hope.


oops, forgot the

Daz

iTrader: (1)

I may go to Cayuga next week or the week after next..If you want we can meet there and try to figure out anything thats wrong with your car..Ill bring my scanner,you can do a few runs and see the readings..If you do have better cam,You should run better than 15's..Post the whole timeslip then maybe we can see if your losing power at the beginning or at the end of the track..Whats your coolant temp when racing?The cam that youre using is it a hyd roller or plain hydraulic..any vac leaks??..I dunno what else..Well if you ever want to go carb Ill trade with whatever youre taking off for a rebuilt Q-jet,Perormer intake,distibutor,coil and whatevers I can take from my truck IF you think its fair

Daz

Kevin Vandevenne

iTrader: (3)

I'm pretty sure that cam is a flat tappet one. Its specs the same as the cam i put in the 350 in my now chopped up TA. When i drove my car, i thought it ran kinda ****ty as well. I thought it might have been the heads, but maybe it's just the cam itself.

Slade1

Check your valve train geometry and ensure things are ok with it... with the kind of cam specs you should have a crap load more power than that...

In the mean time, hook up a voltmeter to your o2 sensor and get some WOT runs and some voltage readings. At least you can figure if you're running lean or rich instantly.

A scan will tell you everything you need to know in terms of sensor readings, parts wise, you should be pushing 14's with ease.

As for tranny, if its shifting alright without clunking or oddball noises or slipping, odds are its not your problem.

Daz

iTrader: (1)

...yes O.B. Wan Canobvious

lolol

Daz

Paul_Hughes_87 T/A

now play friendly children

Mark A Shields

I will, I just don't want the original poster, or anyone that views these boards to A. fall for this or B. make us look bad.

Slade1

Daz, from the dyno day run his tranny was fine, shifted with no problems nor clunking, but his engine was another story. There was that odd for lack of a better term "spike" that appeared on his dyno, it could be heard as like a miss or something that just couldn't be explained. His engine has been weird more or less whenever I've seen it so odds are that the engine is the culprit, somewhere along the way something's robbing the engine of power.

16th owner

Can't get it to scan, where you can see it.

60ft...... 2.279
330ft.... 6.458
1/8 ET... 9.903 @ 71.56
1/4 ET... 15.275 @ 92.96

It seems to be losing mid to top end. Fuel pressure is one thing I definitly need to check. It's a hyd roller cam, ranges best from 1200 to 4500 rpm. and suppose to be good with stock chip. I do remember that, but I need the specs. Hopefully this week. Vac gauge reads ok.
In May and Sept. at dyno days, there was a spike in the curve.
In May at 4500 rpm and Sept. (after new parts) at 4800 rpm.
I thought it was ignition, so new coil and all the other stuff. It tested ok on the scanner.
Then I thought fuel. New injectors and AFPR. I'm baffled.

nblanchard

Hey Martin... still got the dilemma eh? Have you got a performance chip in there yet?

Does the car seem to roll over and die at 3500RPM? When you rev it up in park, do the REVS jump up nicely? Or does it kinda choke?
My car ran a 15.4 at best with my bummed ECM... even with the bummed ECM, it never threw a code, and everything always looked fine on the scanner AT IDLE .... get a scanner, check your readingd at WOT.

Next thing is to get a performance chip in there... I stand by performance resources chip.

Also.. I find my best times are when I let the tranny do the shifting.

16th owner

Hey Nathan, when you put a different ECM in, did you try it out with a stock chip? or did you put the P/R chip in right away?
Just curious how much difference the ECM alone made.
I'll check out the rev's in park today and let ya know what it does.


Daz, let me know if you're going to Cayuga in the next week or two.
Dr. told me this week, I need 4 more weeks off (kinda sucks )
so I've pulled the insurance for mid Nov. and hope to have this problem fixed by then, so I can start on other things over the winter. Just about everything I've done in the last 5 months, has been trying to get it running right. I mean, I can drive it anywhere no problem, just want it running at it's peak.
Thanks guys.

trigger GTA

Martin you are getting closer man. you ran 92.96 with that trap speed you can easy run a mid 14s

oct13 cayga for me
2.234...60'
6.212...330
9.548...1/8
14.9@91.95

my total lift is about .480 so we have a close set up

Paul_Hughes_87 T/A

Dont call bs without asking other people who were at the track that day and I was there and witnissed it. It sounds strange but it happened.

16th owner

Hey Scott, on that run, you were over 2/10 quicker at 330ft. and almost 4/10 at 1/8 mile. What was your 1/8 mile mph? I doubt the difference in 60ft. would equal that much. And that's only that run. I've seen your car go much faster. I'm not sure now, if it's losing power at a certain point or just slow all the way down.

Nathan, I tried revving the car in park. Slow and steady. It seemed fine. Took it to 5g with lots of pedal left.
I'm still not ruling out the ECM.

nblanchard

when I replaced theb ummed ECM, I went from 15.4 to 14.5... huge difference... the performance chip wasn't installed and tried out until the beginning of this year

16th owner

Thanks Nathan. For the price of a used ECM, I think I'll try it. Tracks are going to close for winter soon and I'd like to work on other things that I've been putting off. Cosmetics, susp, etc.
Thanks again,
Martin.

trigger GTA

73.54mph was the 1/8

best run that day was
2.173...60
6.045...330
9.285@75.82..1/8
14.45@95.65...1/4

so you are only giving up 3.5mph at the end. not far off.

but i still think your car has more in it

trigger GTA

mark i was there too. and he did see over 4mph gain by removeing the air filter. FACT!
1 one second off the total ET did have some help with better traction and over all just a good run.

you must also keep in mind that to take 1 second of a 20 second run will take alot less HP than it would to go form 14s to 13s
(NOW that was just an example he did not run 20seconds)

nblanchard

The thing with a used ECM is that it may also be bummed out too... What year is your car Martin? I can meet up with ya at Cayuga one day before the end of the month, and you can swap my ECM in your car..

16th owner

My car is an 87'. Thanks alot for the offer. I'd like to take you up on it, but not if there's any possibility of doing damage to it. Is there?
I really don't know.

Daz

iTrader: (1)

doh..If you have an 87'(MAF) then the 90'ECM(SD) and stuf wouldnt work..You have to convert to SD to use it..I however have an extra ECM/PROM right here in my lap..Maybe you can get me the ECM/PROM/connector of the 90 and Ill give you the stuff for an 87

Daz

Azure

NOt to back Mark up or anything *shudder*, but 1 second does seem a bit much for no air cleaner...I've never been to the track, mind you, so my opinion is really irrelevant. What were the RT's, etc., of the two runs? I'm sure there's something to gain w/ no restrictive air cleaner, but 1 second sounds a bit excessive? I dunno, just my .02.

Daz

iTrader: (1)

RT has nothing to do with it...maybe its the filter is superclogged..lol

Daz

trigger GTA

i can see one second diference with traction alone.
i can run a trap speed of 94mph and have a ET from 14.2 all the way up to 15.3 it ALL depends on traction.

It is clear to see the real gain that was made in the trap speed and the air cleaner made the diference there.
ET dont meen a G0D DAM thing. if you can not run consistant times EVERY time. there are other factors that will afect ET. trap speed is almost ALL motor with alot less factors to afect it from one run to the next. any one that runs times that are not consistant will usaly find that thier trap speed are within one of 2 mph of all the runs.

oct 13 at cayuga i made 7 runs
1...14.9@94.69
2...15.0@94.11
3...14.4@95.64
4...14.5@94.91
5...15.2@94.05
6...14.4@94.62
7...14.9@91.06.. this last one was the first of the day(let off to soon ) the car was detonating

you can see very claerly that the car ran consitent speeds but had up to .8 in ET

16th owner

Hey Daz, I'll see what the weathers like tomorrow. This car is in a real mudhole. Also, I need to check the year, guy says it a 90'.
I picked up the cargo cover for $10, so thought I would go snoop somemore. I'll let you know when I find out more.
Martin.

Slade1

I'm with trigger on et and mph.

I can run speeds of 91 mph on average but my trap times had variations from 15.4-16.2.

MPH is very hard to gain from from run to run provided you're shifting consistently. ET is severely changed by traction. MPH on the other hand varies little provided you run your car consistently.

I pulled a 2.7 60 ft time, a 16.2 and a 91 mph trap speed on 1 of my runs at Cayuga... go figure that compared to the first run of the day had a 2.2 60 ft a 15.4 and a 91 mph...

nblanchard

Martin.. mine's a 1988, so it should work no problems... and I don't see anything happening tot he computer... let me know in advance if/when you plan on going to Cayuga

88redxtsy

Hope you figure out your problem Martin. I have a stock 305TPI with 3.08 gears and I ran consistant 15.1 at 90mph at Cayuga. It seems as though something is stopping you and the ecm will be a good bet. Good Luck.