I had the car apparaised again this year (the appraiser likes to see them every year to keep the appraisals current, plus mine got broken into last year, so a lot of the equipment was different than what was itemized on last year's paperwork because it's all brand new).

Anyway, I brought the new appraisal in yesterday morning to the Co-operators and the rep was like that snotty receptionist character on Mad TV or SNL or whatever (you know the "Shyeah, you know what? Uh-uh.." chick). She says they find appraisers in general, and mine in particular, tend to "over-value" cars so they no longer give you what the car is determined to be "worth". They just use the appraisal as a "meter stick" and then, in the event of a total loss, will pay you something between what the appraiser says it's worth and what the black book "depreciated" value is (which by the way is about $500). My car was apparaised at $6000.

What a flipping rip-off! You can't win in this business. It's not very comforting to know that, should some punk-*** kid break in again and steal the whole flipping car next time, I won't be getting enough pf a settlement to buy a vehicle of equal value, but rather a project car and starting all over again. Thanks for nothing "Co-operators". I'll be shopping around for a new company now...but I figure if it's legal for the insurance companies to operate in this manner, they all will. Makes ya wonder what we're all paying for, doesn't it??

You might want to call up and ask another insurance company about this Tracy as that was not my understanding. My car's appraised at $12Gs and you can bet your **** that that's what I'm expecting to get if a pay out is ever required. Make sure that they are using the OPCF 19 form in your policy to include the appraised value.

Make sure you have agreed amount policy instead of a stated amount policy. The difference is, stated amount policy is still an ACV (actual cast value) no to exceed 6k. Agree amount covers for the full value, in your case 6k.

Not all insurance REPS are $hitty, if you like your insurance company, find another agent that sells for them and broker your business to them, this will save you a rewrite.

good luck

Tracey,
You should try getting the Antique, Classic & Special Interest Auto Insurance. They have some rules about what you can/cannot do with the car, but long as you have a daily driver you should be OK. The yearly rate I pay now is a fraction of what I payed before and in a worst case scenario, I get full appraised value for it. Given your $6K value, your rate would be dirt cheap for a full 1 yr coverage. Appraisals are required every 3rd yr also (I believe). I can give you more details if you want.... or you can PM me.

Pacer

Yeah, that's the form they used. And, until yesterday, my understanding was that they pay what it's worth and not a penny more. I kinda got the impression that the chicky I dealt with yesterday just loves to disappoint people who think they know what's up. I am going to shop around. You gotta watch those buggers, eh? You don't even wanna hear my State Farm story.

Thanks for the reply.

I've had my car for 5 years now and no appraisal. Just pictures taken by the insurance company. When I last talked to them, I told them my stereo was over $1500. My broker told me that they only insure me for upto $1500. That was the first time I was asked to get the car appraised. I'll do it next year for sure now.

Try another appraisal shop. One that appreciates our cars and knows their true value.

Pacer,

how old does you car have to be for the Antique, Classic & Special Interest Auto Insurance? do you have a company name and number where i could contact them? thanks

Agreed amount policy....hmmm. I must look into this. It sounds like what I thought I had before. I never had any issues with this office before. In fact, they were pretty decent when I had my $800 claim last year when the car was broken into. This kinda came outta the blue. I'll look into this. My policy is up for renewal next month and these guys may have just screwed themselves out of some business as I have 2 cars and an apartment's contents insured with them right now, and we close on our new home in February. It'd be worth their while to keep me happy.

Thanks folks!

Brad: I have some info on that insurance here as well...I'll dig it up (since I may well be looking into that again as well) and send you an email. They place some restrictions, like Pacer said, as to what you can and can't do with the car:
-It can't be taken on vacation (which was why I didn't go with this co...cuz I kinda like to take it with us from time to time...whenever it's not Raven's turn)
-It can't be driven to work

I'll find their brochure and get back to you.

great...thanks Tracey

darbleinad:

It's gotta be 15+ yrs old. Also:
1. Must have daily driver for work etc..
2. Nobody with <10yrs driving experience to drive it
3. No shopping / groceries
4. No vacations (unless you pay a little extra each time)
5. Basically, a pleasure car

This isn't for everyone, but for me it works.

Couple of the better known companies:
1. Whetter,Oaklin Ins brokers 1-800-590-3269
2. Lant & Co. Ins brokers 1-800-462-4099

Call & get brochures, I wish I did this yrs ago...

Pacer

thanks Pacer. now what if the owner is only 20 and has only 4 years of driving experience, but owns the car? i will give them a holler and find out. thanks again

well i just called Whetter,Oaklin Ins, and a guy named Mark was very helpful and friendly. however, the car has to be 20 years or older for this special insurance. he said the other company pacer mention takes them once they are 15 years or older. however, i cant get this insurance until i am 26 (ie have 10 years of driving experience), even though i own the car. d'oh. guess i am stuck with the good-olde-screw-ya-over-repeatedly insurance till then. for you older folks, i would definetly be looking into this stuff.

Another company to look into is Silver Wheels. This is who my broker uses. In my MOnte case because it is so modified it was my only choice. $15,000 coverage costs me $645/year. That is full coverage too. I don't have all the to do's right now but I will see what I can come up with for you.

cool
thanks man...a phone number would be awesome.

Here you go.

Lant & Co. Insurance Brokers Ltd.
37 Sandiford Drive, Suite 100, Stouffville, ON L4A 7X5
Phone: (905) 640-4111 Fax: (905) 640-4450 Toll Free: (800)461-4099
You are interested in the "Silver Wheels Plan"

Best advice though ... don't mention that you know someone who is insured with them. Just say that you over heard about them at a few car shows.

Can sonone give me the name of an apraiser in Mississauga. And how much it costs roughly?

Thanks

appraisals are usually in $100 range. check the yellow pages or hopefully someone on here will know a good one.

Here's the guy I've used for many years:

Antique & Classic Auto Appraisal Service,
Doug Adams
1-888-EVALUE-8 or 705-429-4556

Doug is very familiar with f-bodies. His specialty is muscle cars.
I've known him for a numbers of years, so that's my endorsement.
Many of the Ontario Camaro Club members use him also.
Lant & Co also regards his work highly for their policies, FYI.
They know his appraisals are as fair & accurate as can be.
Cost is about $125.00, maybe less with a club affiliation. Cash may help.

Pacer

705 telephone exchange? - is he in Barrie or somewhere like that?

George,
He's in Wasaga Beach, but works all over. He'll book at date & time with anyone needing appraisals, same as any other appraiser. Doesn't matter where he lives since he has to go to the cars....
Pacer

OK - Thanks

Just a note: There are variations to OPCF 19 (i.e. 19, 19A, 19E)- one of which is the problem copperchick has run into: "Give us an appraisal and we'll charge you a premium based on this, but in the event of a loss we will factor in depreciation and usage to determine what will be paid"- this is the 'standard' OPCF 19.

If you want the "NO depreciation" clause it is OPCF 19A- this is where the 'special use' policies such as Lant and Whetter offer come in. I have not seen/found a major, common insurer who is willing to insure a daily driver under a '19A' clause the last couple of years.

The auto insurance industry in Ontario IS a crime and it's about time the Ontario government got it sorted out-once-and-for-all. If all the common insurers don't want to be in this business -fine- make it a public corporation and be done with it. We already have liability and damage limits under the law ($100,000.00 for each) and almost never are these limits exceeded except under very very rare circumstances with a sympathetic court and are almost all overturned on appeal. This is why the 'minimum' liability coverage we must have is $200,000.00. Notice no one will sell you this level of liability insurance? The insurers have us all by the short and curlies, they know it, and they just don't give a damn.

First, repealing the law that requires us to carry liability
insurance would go a long way to putting market control
back in the consumers hands.
The insurance companies know they will get 100% of the market
so they don't have to compete. Thery actually work together to raise rates and keep rates high and payout and service low.
This law requireing us to carry liability ins under the threat of a
huge $$ fine creates and non competetive unfair monopoly.
Simular to hydro, or medical care. We are being gouged there too.
When you had a choice wether or not to purchase liability
insurance, you had a choice in the market place, and a choice not to buy if the price wasn't right.
Wether driving without insurance was a wise thing to do
is a whole nother story, but irrelevent. At least you had a competitive choice.

Until the laws are changed we're goiing to continue to get gouged.

Does anyone know who underwrites the special use policies because it's one thing to have insurance and another thing to collect on it.

Also, is it difficult to get a major insurer to issue a 19A for a non-daily driver as opposed to a daily driver mentioned above.

I have 2mil liability with my stanadard accident benefit policy so I'm unsure as to why that's problematic.

People often get liability issues and statutory accident benefit issues mixed up.

The standard no-fault AB policy provides up to 1mil. for each of the following categories: Income Replacement; Attendant Care and Med/Rehab. That's the limit in the insurance contract and the Courts don't execeed it in the event that you issue a claim for AB benefits. You can however purchase additional coverage for IRBs over and above the $400 per week max available under the standard AB policy.

Liability implies fault and that takes it out of the no-fault regime into tort where you're now sueing the a-hole that hit you and any damages awarded as a result of your claim comes out of the liability coverage under his policy or out of his pocket if there's not enough in his policy. That's why I have 2mil. liability on mine and even that may not be enough.

Before you can sue for damages arising out of an MVA your injuries have to breach what is referred to as the tort threshold - ie they must constitute a serious and permanant impairment of an important physical or psychological function. That sounds real dramatic but in some cases scarring has been held to be a serious and permanant impairment - then there's like soft-tissue injuries and chronic pain syndrome and so on. There's also a $15,000 deductable from any damage award.

With respect the AB policy - you don't get the 3mil. in your hands - it will be annuitized and discounted to present value. For example, Attendant Care is a max of $6000 per month up to 1mil. So at $6k per month you will burn $1mil. in say 15 years; therefor, what they do is deposit say $600K which, with interest accrued, will pay $6000 per month for 15 years or whatever.

To cut a long story short - after reading this long winded response does anyone give rats a$$. Anyway, bottom line is that the insurance industry is full of white collar criminals and sucks big time.